daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Skyscrapers

Skyscrapers General news, discussion and announcement forum about skyscrapers, including the Skyscraper Living forum



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 12th, 2014, 03:13 AM   #2941
Manitopiaaa
Illuminati Leader
 
Manitopiaaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Alexandria, Nova, The Crown Commonwealth of Virginia (see sig)
Posts: 4,428
Likes (Received): 10289

Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
The data would suggest that the gap between Chicago and Toronto could close within the next 4-5 years. If what's currently at the proposal stage in Toronto gets built, Chicago will fall to 3rd. It's a big 'if', but very few of Toronto's proposals over the last 7 years were cancelled or shelved.

100m+ Buildings (Built, U/C, Proposed)
Chicago 340
Toronto 363

The only category where Chicago will be ahead is super talls. Chicago would have 6, Toronto none if one excludes the CN Tower. Toronto is certainly behind Chicago by a significant margin, but the gap is closing far faster than you're indicating.
100m is an arbitrary number, probably chosen because it narrows the gap the most between Chicago and Toronto. CTBUH defines a skyscraper as 150m which would show Chicago at 119 and Toronto at 54 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ers_above_150m). I highly doubt you'll claim Toronto's building 65 skyscrapers. If we go by SSC's definition of 200m you get Chicago 27 and Toronto 18. With all proposals built then Toronto can pass Chicago. You'd be at around 35 and Chicago would be at around 32 (don't forget Chicago is also building and has notable proposals that aren't Post Office or Spire related). So the winner is purely arbitrary but Toronto's playing catch-up and there's too many 'ifs' in Toronto's future. Bubbles do pop and even the most dynamic cities have trouble absorbing another 20 skyscraper's worth of space.
__________________


Atlanta (6,451,262) - Boston (8,176,376) - Chicago (9,882,634) - Cleveland (3,483,311) - Dallas (7,673,305) - Denver (3,470,235) - Detroit (5,318,653) - Houston (6,972,374)
Los Angeles (18,688,022) - Miami (6,723,472) - Minneapolis (3,894,820) - New York (23,689,255) - Orlando (3,202,927) - Philadelphia (7,179,357) - Phoenix (4,661,537)
Portland (3,160,488) - San Diego (3,317,749) - San Francisco (8,751,807) - Seattle (4,684,516) - Tampa (3,032,171) - Washington (9,665,892)

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
Manitopiaaa no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old January 12th, 2014, 07:39 AM   #2942
QuantumX
One Brickell CityCentre
 
QuantumX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Miami
Posts: 13,157
Likes (Received): 19048

__________________
"I'm going to bet you that when we're done --- I don't know when that will be --- historians will identify this as the most significant and rapid transformation of an American city.'' Former Miami City Commissioner Johnny Winton 05/22/2005

My photo threads:





KlausDiggy, ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
QuantumX no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2014, 02:53 PM   #2943
Denjiro
Heathen
 
Denjiro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Saigon
Posts: 6,573
Likes (Received): 7095

NYC

image hosted on flickr

Madison Square Park and Flatiron District by Tony Shi., on Flickr
__________________
Vietnam ღ
SAIGONHANOIDANANG

KlausDiggy, QuantumX liked this post
Denjiro no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2014, 03:15 AM   #2944
Yellow Fever
City Of Rain
 
Yellow Fever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hongcouver/Raincouver
Posts: 59,974
Likes (Received): 55336

SF

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/freshco...6/in/contacts/
by FRESHCOLD
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
Yellow Fever no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2014, 05:26 AM   #2945
Zack Fair
Registered User
 
Zack Fair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 696
Likes (Received): 755

From the North American forum

Chicago

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celt67 View Post
Heres that above photo a wee bit bigger.

[IMG]http://i39.************/etxvo9.jpg[/IMG]
__________________

KlausDiggy, ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
Zack Fair no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2014, 06:12 AM   #2946
GdlMty
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Guadalajara
Posts: 1,483
Likes (Received): 8577

Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico.

image hosted on flickr
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post

Last edited by GdlMty; January 20th, 2014 at 04:21 AM.
GdlMty no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2014, 05:30 PM   #2947
Denjiro
Heathen
 
Denjiro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Saigon
Posts: 6,573
Likes (Received): 7095

The Windy City - Chicago
image hosted on flickr

081613_12e_stitch by nikokaps, on Flickr
image hosted on flickr

122913_86s_stitch by nikokaps, on Flickr
__________________
Vietnam ღ
SAIGONHANOIDANANG

GdlMty liked this post
Denjiro no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2014, 07:34 PM   #2948
isaidso
the new republic
 
isaidso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The United Provinces of America
Posts: 29,654
Likes (Received): 10806

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
100m is an arbitrary number, probably chosen because it narrows the gap the most between Chicago and Toronto.
100m+ wasn't chosen for any other reason except that it's a common benchmark used in Canada. I bet most Europeans use 100m as well. We rarely talk about 150m: that's usually only used when talking to Americans because it's close to 500ft, a benchmark they use a lot. We rarely talk about 200m+ either because we only have 1 city that builds taller than that. Calgary is now beginning to, but that's a new development.

100m is no more arbitrary than any other benchmark and it doesn't narrow the gap, it puts Toronto ahead. By high rises, Toronto has more than double Chicago's count. By 200m+ it will be a dead heat before the decade is out. It's only by super talls where Chicago will maintain any lead. The data shows that it's much closer than you make it out to be.

Everyone realizes that proposals may not get built, but the discussion was clearly about future growth over the next 20 years. If someone asks about future growth, one naturally discusses proposals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
So the winner is ...
The winner? Now I understand why you're so hostile towards Toronto. You think it's some stupid race with a winner and a loser?
__________________
World's 1st Baseball Game: June 4th, 1838, Beachville, Ontario, Canada
North America's Oldest Pro Football Teams: Toronto Argonauts (1873) and Hamilton Tiger Cats (1869)

I started my first photo thread documenting a recent trip to Halifax, Nova Scotia. Have a peek: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=724898

Last edited by isaidso; January 13th, 2014 at 08:24 PM.
isaidso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2014, 02:54 PM   #2949
DZH22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,918
Likes (Received): 2092

Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
100m+ wasn't chosen for any other reason except that it's a common benchmark used in Canada. I bet most Europeans use 100m as well. We rarely talk about 150m: that's usually only used when talking to Americans because it's close to 500ft, a benchmark they use a lot. We rarely talk about 200m+ either because we only have 1 city that builds taller than that. Calgary is now beginning to, but that's a new development.
100m is a very low number when you are trying to compare "big city" skylines. It may have made sense in the past, but this is a new (booming) world. I can tell you with absolute certainty that a single 200m building built in Boston would have a much larger effect on the skyline at this point than if the city added 10-15 towers in the 100-105m range.

I think that Toronto is large enough and tall enough that 100m is barely relevant on the skyline anymore. Same with Chicago. How many 100m buildings do you need to equate to the presence of a single Willis Tower, or CN Tower?

Heck, in NYC, even a 150m building is going to blend in and completely disappear. Even a 200m building is going to virtually disappear. If it's no longer a height that can make an impact on its respective skyline, it's not really a relevant number for comparability.

I gotta think if we are comparing cities that each have over 400+ buildings of a certain height, it might be time to set the bar a little higher.
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
DZH22 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2014, 05:13 AM   #2950
Fitzrovian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 607
Likes (Received): 64

Quote:
Originally Posted by DZH22 View Post
100m is a very low number when you are trying to compare "big city" skylines. It may have made sense in the past, but this is a new (booming) world. I can tell you with absolute certainty that a single 200m building built in Boston would have a much larger effect on the skyline at this point than if the city added 10-15 towers in the 100-105m range.

I think that Toronto is large enough and tall enough that 100m is barely relevant on the skyline anymore. Same with Chicago. How many 100m buildings do you need to equate to the presence of a single Willis Tower, or CN Tower?

Heck, in NYC, even a 150m building is going to blend in and completely disappear. Even a 200m building is going to virtually disappear. If it's no longer a height that can make an impact on its respective skyline, it's not really a relevant number for comparability.

I gotta think if we are comparing cities that each have over 400+ buildings of a certain height, it might be time to set the bar a little higher.
Well 100m buildings are not completely worthless if they enhance density, but your point is well taken. I was actually thinking about this the other day... In terms of visual impact on the skyline a supertall is probably worth quite a few 500 footers and a 500 footer is worth quite a few 300 footers. Think of Chicago: only 6 of its 300+ skyscrapers are supertalls but their impact is immense. If you removed them from the skyline its quality would deteriorate tremendously. How many 100m buildings would you have to remove to achieve the same impact? 50? 70? 100?? If one looks at the picture of Chicago from 10-15 years ago when its total skyscraper count was quite a bit lower the only obvious difference they are likely to notice is the absence of Trump.
Fitzrovian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2014, 05:22 AM   #2951
QuantumX
One Brickell CityCentre
 
QuantumX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Miami
Posts: 13,157
Likes (Received): 19048

Even in Miami, all of the 150m buildings are starting to blend into each other.

__________________
"I'm going to bet you that when we're done --- I don't know when that will be --- historians will identify this as the most significant and rapid transformation of an American city.'' Former Miami City Commissioner Johnny Winton 05/22/2005

My photo threads:





ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
QuantumX no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2014, 07:51 AM   #2952
Taller, Better
Administrator
 
Taller, Better's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 70,992
Likes (Received): 12207

This is becoming a pissing contest. Maybe we can move beyond this 100 metre argument?
__________________
'Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood."
-architect Daniel Burnman
Taller, Better no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2014, 07:30 PM   #2953
Denjiro
Heathen
 
Denjiro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Saigon
Posts: 6,573
Likes (Received): 7095

NYC

image hosted on flickr

The Light Sabre by Riccardo Maria Mantero, on Flickr
__________________
Vietnam ღ
SAIGONHANOIDANANG

KlausDiggy, Dakaro liked this post
Denjiro no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2014, 09:29 PM   #2954
isaidso
the new republic
 
isaidso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The United Provinces of America
Posts: 29,654
Likes (Received): 10806

Quote:
Originally Posted by DZH22 View Post
100m is a very low number when you are trying to compare "big city" skylines. It may have made sense in the past, but this is a new (booming) world. I can tell you with absolute certainty that a single 200m building built in Boston would have a much larger effect on the skyline at this point than if the city added 10-15 towers in the 100-105m range.

I think that Toronto is large enough and tall enough that 100m is barely relevant on the skyline anymore. Same with Chicago. How many 100m buildings do you need to equate to the presence of a single Willis Tower, or CN Tower?

Heck, in NYC, even a 150m building is going to blend in and completely disappear. Even a 200m building is going to virtually disappear. If it's no longer a height that can make an impact on its respective skyline, it's not really a relevant number for comparability.

I gotta think if we are comparing cities that each have over 400+ buildings of a certain height, it might be time to set the bar a little higher.
We've had this discussion at least 3-4 times, so we're really just rehashing the same arguments. 100m won't stand out in Toronto, but when you have a sea of buildings that tall it does make a difference. It boils down to whether one prioritizes height or scale. I'll just leave it at that.
__________________
World's 1st Baseball Game: June 4th, 1838, Beachville, Ontario, Canada
North America's Oldest Pro Football Teams: Toronto Argonauts (1873) and Hamilton Tiger Cats (1869)

I started my first photo thread documenting a recent trip to Halifax, Nova Scotia. Have a peek: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=724898
isaidso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2014, 11:38 PM   #2955
desertpunk
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
 
desertpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ELP ~ ABQ
Posts: 55,648
Likes (Received): 53453

Philadelphia (1,121 ft. supertall just announced today)

image hosted on flickr

City Skyline #1 by copr369, on Flickr
__________________
We are floating in space...

QuantumX, ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
desertpunk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2014, 01:17 AM   #2956
isaidso
the new republic
 
isaidso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The United Provinces of America
Posts: 29,654
Likes (Received): 10806

Great news for Philadelphia.
__________________
World's 1st Baseball Game: June 4th, 1838, Beachville, Ontario, Canada
North America's Oldest Pro Football Teams: Toronto Argonauts (1873) and Hamilton Tiger Cats (1869)

I started my first photo thread documenting a recent trip to Halifax, Nova Scotia. Have a peek: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=724898

desertpunk, QuantumX liked this post
isaidso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2014, 02:09 AM   #2957
QuantumX
One Brickell CityCentre
 
QuantumX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Miami
Posts: 13,157
Likes (Received): 19048

Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
We've had this discussion at least 3-4 times, so we're really just rehashing the same arguments. 100m won't stand out in Toronto, but when you have a sea of buildings that tall it does make a difference. It boils down to whether one prioritizes height or scale. I'll just leave it at that.
I like the 150m mark though because it's kind of the Goldilocks zone between height and scale. In this day and age, 100m does leave you with quite a few buildings to count, where as the 200m mark takes out a large chunk of buildings and leaves a lot of cities without scale and without enough skyscrapers to have a decent skyline.
__________________
"I'm going to bet you that when we're done --- I don't know when that will be --- historians will identify this as the most significant and rapid transformation of an American city.'' Former Miami City Commissioner Johnny Winton 05/22/2005

My photo threads:





ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
QuantumX no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2014, 09:42 AM   #2958
Yellow Fever
City Of Rain
 
Yellow Fever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hongcouver/Raincouver
Posts: 59,974
Likes (Received): 55336

NY

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tomvu/1...ore-2014-01-15
by Barry Yanowitz
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
Yellow Fever no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2014, 12:31 PM   #2959
bozenBDJ
the World Trade Center
 
bozenBDJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: BDJ, ID-KS
Posts: 23,631
Likes (Received): 9717

New York City, NY, the United States

image hosted on flickr

Untitled by NilsPix, on Flickr
bozenBDJ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2014, 04:29 PM   #2960
BrickellResidence
Moderator
 
BrickellResidence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mexico City
Posts: 5,383
Likes (Received): 6574

Mexico City's Fast growing Main Skyline with +6 buildings over 200m Under construction/proposed and 2 rumoured to be over 300m

Quote:
Originally Posted by riveraconde View Post

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr
__________________

ChuckScraperMiami#1 liked this post
BrickellResidence no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu