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Old July 2nd, 2014, 06:58 PM   #3841
Taller, Better
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However, barring something catastrophic, no city in North America will challenge NYC in our lifetimes.
I would tend to agree with that, due to the wonderful mix of architecture that New York has, with buildings like the Chrysler and the Empire State.
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 07:29 PM   #3842
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 09:08 PM   #3843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taller, Better View Post
I would tend to agree with that, due to the wonderful mix of architecture that New York has, with buildings like the Chrysler and the Empire State.
I've never heard of those buildings --
could you tell me a little bit about them?
Thanks.

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Old July 2nd, 2014, 09:15 PM   #3844
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... now that I know where the Mississauga skyline is in relation to Toronto's, I too think Miami should get credit for Sunny Isles Beach if Toronto gets to count Mississauga.

That's perfectly fine with me because I'm getting ready to count Oakland and San Francisco as part of San Jose, because we're bigger and don't have any real skyscrapers of our own.

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Old July 2nd, 2014, 09:21 PM   #3845
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That's perfectly fine with me because I'm getting ready to count Oakland and San Francisco as part of San Jose, because we's bigger and don't have any real skyscrapers of our own.
Boston is going to start counting NYC and Canada. Hey Philly, we just caught you guys!

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Old July 2nd, 2014, 09:30 PM   #3846
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Boston is going to start counting NYC and Canada. Hey Philly, we just caught you guys!


I'll let you have Providence and Worcester,
but not NYC and Canada.
There's a 50-mile limit.
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 09:47 PM   #3847
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 09:48 PM   #3848
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And Isaidso, now that I know where the Mississauga skyline is in relation to Toronto's, I too think Miami should get credit for Sunny Isles Beach if Toronto gets to count Mississauga.
I know you saw Mississauga when you flew in, but I'm not sure if you saw also that it is within a continuously built up metropolitan area. There is no undeveloped land between the two but rather a continuous urban development. This is not the same as Hamilton which is separated somewhat (although not a lot) from the GTA. Although it is close, Hamilton is not considered part of the Greater Toronto Area. Politically, Mississauga is a separate city of its own and has its own mayor and city council, but there is no question of it not being part of the GTA for measurement of metropolitan population. I don't know an exact comparison, but I'd say it is like Brooklyn or the Bronx to New York City.

So, if Sunny Isles Beach is completely within the developed greater city of Miami, I see no reason why it should not already have been counted as such! I could be mistaken, but I think Metropolitan Miami is considered
to include Fort Lauderdale, Pompano Beach, West Palm Beach, and Boca Raton.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_metropolitan_area
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 09:56 PM   #3849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taller, Better View Post
I know you saw Mississauga when you flew in, but I'm not sure if you saw also that it is within a continuously built up metropolitan area. There is no undeveloped land between the two but rather a continuous urban development. This is not the same as Hamilton which is separated somewhat (although not a lot) from the GTA. Politically, Mississauga is a separate city of its own and has its own mayor and city council, but there is no question of it not being part of the GTA for measurement of metropolitan population.

So, if Sunny Isles Beach is completely within the developed greater city of Miami, I see no reason why it should not already have been counted as such!
It is indeed a continuous develop area [Miami - Sunny Isles]. In fact, he entire southeast coast of Florida is one massive continuous urban development between say, Kendall/South Miami in the south to Palm Beach in the north. [the urban area covers the three counties of Miami-Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach.]
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 10:00 PM   #3850
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So, is Sunny Isles not considered part of Miami for the Metropolitan population, yet Fort Lauderdale is? How odd!
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 10:43 PM   #3851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondHood View Post

I'll let you have Providence and Worcester,
but not NYC and Canada.
There's a 50-mile limit.
Ehhhhhh, but really, different cities, different skylines. The only city with substantial build-up that I would consider part of Boston is Cambridge. The skylines literally connect by the Science Museum / North Station area.

Really unsure about the Mississauga / Toronto link. I mean, sure, they're damn close, but they're still ~20 miles away from each other! Is it really the SAME skyline? I'm not necessarily taking one side or the other, just wondering where you draw the line for some of these cities.

I guess where I'm from, I'm just not used to this type of "skyline sprawl". For comparison, Mississauga would be located outside the 95/128 belt of Boston (we have 2 belts, this is the inner, 495 is the outer). If we, say, built a 150m building in Weston, just outside 95, nobody in their right mind would act like that's Boston's tower. (except everybody who isn't from here, apparently) It's just an oversized building in a suburb. Nothing built outside the inner belt would be, or should be, considered "Boston". Metro, yes, but city itself? Definitely not.
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 11:03 PM   #3852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taller, Better View Post
So, is Sunny Isles not considered part of Miami for the Metropolitan population, yet Fort Lauderdale is? How odd!
TB, this is what Isaidso and I are talking about. This source below includes Mississauga as part of Toronto's tally, yet they are quite far apart, yet it includes Miami Beach as part of Miami's tally and not Sunny Isles Beach. It counts SIB separately. So what we're wondering is if Toronto gets to include Mississauga, why doesn't Miami get to include SIB?

http://tudl0867.home.xs4all.nl/skylines.html
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 11:24 PM   #3853
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I don't think it makes sense to include Mississauga. If you include Mississauga, then Brampton, Markham, Vaughan and all the other municipalities in the GTA should be included as well. But that's just it, they're completely different cities with their own mayors and councils. Toronto is Toronto and only buildings located within the border should be included. Either that, or include the entire GTA. It doesn't make sense to include two cities within the GTA and exclude all the others.
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 11:24 PM   #3854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumX View Post
TB, this is what Isaidso and I are talking about. This source below includes Mississauga as part of Toronto's tally, yet they are quite far apart, yet it includes Miami Beach as part of Miami's tally and not Sunny Isles Beach. It counts SIB separately. So what we're wondering is if Toronto gets to include Mississauga, why doesn't Miami get to include SIB?

http://tudl0867.home.xs4all.nl/skylines.html
Email the guy. He's pretty responsive. I emailed him and told him about Devon in OKC and he thanked me and updated. He'd probably combine SIB with Miami if you ask nicely.
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 12:18 AM   #3855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taller, Better View Post
I know you saw Mississauga when you flew in, but I'm not sure if you saw also that it is within a continuously built up metropolitan area. There is no undeveloped land between the two but rather a continuous urban development. This is not the same as Hamilton which is separated somewhat (although not a lot) from the GTA. Although it is close, Hamilton is not considered part of the Greater Toronto Area. Politically, Mississauga is a separate city of its own and has its own mayor and city council, but there is no question of it not being part of the GTA for measurement of metropolitan population. I don't know an exact comparison, but I'd say it is like Brooklyn or the Bronx to New York City.
Not a good comparison. Brooklyn and the Bronx are part of the City of New York, just as Manhattan.
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 12:32 AM   #3856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DZH22 View Post
Email the guy. He's pretty responsive. I emailed him and told him about Devon in OKC and he thanked me and updated. He'd probably combine SIB with Miami if you ask nicely.
He probably considers the Sunny Isles Beach skyline large enough to be counted on it's own. With what's already under construction, we're talking 11 buildings over 500 feet tall.
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 07:07 AM   #3857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumX View Post
TB, this is what Isaidso and I are talking about. This source below includes Mississauga as part of Toronto's tally, yet they are quite far apart, yet it includes Miami Beach as part of Miami's tally and not Sunny Isles Beach. It counts SIB separately. So what we're wondering is if Toronto gets to include Mississauga, why doesn't Miami get to include SIB?

http://tudl0867.home.xs4all.nl/skylines.html
Toronto and Mississauga seamlessly join in non-stop urban development. Their respective "downtown" skylines may be "far apart" because the two cities are quite vast, but there is no break between Toronto and Mississauga. Politically they are separate cities, but for the purposes of measuring metropolitan populations they are added together, as is commonly done in measuring Metropolitan populations. I think what is confusing some people here is that Mississauga has developed its own "downtown" skyline in the past generation, through a concerted area to create a "downtown" where none existed. Many suburbs in big American cities that would be the equivalent to Mississauga just don't have a notable downtown "skyline".
I'm afraid I know nothing about Sunny Isles, and am not maintaining that it shouldn't be part of the Greater Miami population figures; in fact I had never heard of it until today.
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But that's just it, they're completely different cities with their own mayors and councils.
But, this frequently happens in the measuring of "Metropolitan Areas". Technically Mississauga is a completely "separate city", but the reality known by all of us who live here is that it is a de facto suburb of Toronto.

Hamilton, on the other hand, is physically separated from Toronto (albeit not by much), so it cannot be lumped into the GTA population statistics.
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 07:44 AM   #3858
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I'm afraid I know nothing about Sunny Isles, and am not maintaining that it shouldn't be part of the Greater Miami population figures; in fact I had never heard of it until today.
TB, it's the second largest skyline in Florida and it's right in Miami-Dade County north of Miami Beach. It has 8 buildings over 150m and 3 more under construction that approach 200m. In shots of Miami from the southwest, you can see it on the horizon in the distance right above the Miami skyline.







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Old July 3rd, 2014, 07:06 PM   #3859
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 08:58 PM   #3860
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