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Old July 6th, 2014, 08:52 AM   #3881
isaidso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcanadian View Post
I really like the CN Tower as the focal point of the skyline and I feel that if another huge tower were built it may look awkward.
That's the crux of it right there. People who want the CN Tower to remain the only focal point forever will find 375-450m too tall. Those who want the CN Tower to integrate into the skyline like Willis does with Chicago's skyline and ESB does with Manhattan's skyline would find shorter buildings than 375m just won't accomplish the goal.

I'm firmly in the latter camp and have been waiting for the skyline to grow up to the CN Tower. Eventually I'd want 5-6 peaks in the 375-600m range scattered throughout the core, the CN Tower being just one of them. I find the idea that nothing should compete with the ESB in Manhattan as bizarre a concept as nothing should compete with the CN Tower.

Skylines should continually re-invent themselves. If we didn't think like that the CN Tower never would have gone up in the first place because it would have taken away from what ever was the focal point before it.
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Old July 6th, 2014, 09:23 AM   #3882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
That's the crux of it right there. People who want the CN Tower to remain the only focal point forever will find 375-450m too tall. Those who want the CN Tower to integrate into the skyline like Willis does with Chicago's skyline and ESB does with Manhattan's skyline would find shorter buildings than 375m just won't accomplish the goal.

I'm firmly in the latter camp and have been waiting for the skyline to grow up to the CN Tower. Eventually I'd want 5-6 peaks in the 375-600m range scattered throughout the core, the CN Tower being just one of them. I find the idea that nothing should compete with the ESB in Manhattan as bizarre a concept as nothing should compete with the CN Tower.

Skylines should continually re-invent themselves. If we didn't think like that the CN Tower never would have gone up in the first place because it would have taken away from what ever was the focal point before it.
I guess it's just a preference of mine to have observation towers as the dominating figure in a skyline. It's their slenderness and unique design that makes them really stand out. For example, I think the Calgary skyline looks a bit awkward with the Calgary Tower being one of the shorter major structures in the city, same with Seattle and Shanghai. So if I lived in Chicago, I wouldn't mind something taller than Willis, because it isn't strictly an observation tower.
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Old July 6th, 2014, 05:20 PM   #3883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
That's the crux of it right there. People who want the CN Tower to remain the only focal point forever will find 375-450m too tall.
I think buildings between 375-450m in downtown Toronto would bring the CN tower more in scale with the rest of the skyline while still allowing it to remain the only focal point. Right now, it's too out of scale with the rest of the skyline, IMO. Buildings approaching 600m would be too much in competition with it, I think.
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Old July 6th, 2014, 05:47 PM   #3884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcanadian View Post
I guess it's just a preference of mine to have observation towers as the dominating figure in a skyline. It's their slenderness and unique design that makes them really stand out. For example, I think the Calgary skyline looks a bit awkward with the Calgary Tower being one of the shorter major structures in the city, same with Seattle and Shanghai. So if I lived in Chicago, I wouldn't mind something taller than Willis, because it isn't strictly an observation tower.
Exactly. I don't view this type of structure as just being another an element in the skyline; it is special, like a type of monument that embodies the spirit of a city. I compare it more to the Stature of Liberty than the ESB.

That being said, I have no issue with some taller buildings being added, I'd just prefer they not crowd the tower too much. Which is why I don't mind the situation in Seattle too much but do find the Calgary situation akward. IF a supertall was visually integrated into the main cluster or even to the west more aligned with the Cityplace cluster, that might be pretty cool.

Actually I'd consider the best spot for a really large supertall (400m+) would be around the world's largest bookstore or old bus terminal sites, or the empty lot near Armoury and chestnut streets. Along with Aura, it would add some bulk to a somewhat sparse part of the skyline in east/west views, be tall enough to complement the main cluster from the lake, but be far enough from the CN to not visually crowd it from most common angles.
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Old July 6th, 2014, 06:14 PM   #3885
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Exactly. I don't view this type of structure as just being another an element in the skyline; it is special, like a type of monument that embodies the spirit of a city. I compare it more to the Stature of Liberty than the ESB.

That being said, I have no issue with some taller buildings being added, I'd just prefer they not crowd the tower too much. Which is why I don't mind the situation in Seattle too much but do find the Calgary situation akward. IF a supertall was visually integrated into the main cluster or even to the west more aligned with the Cityplace cluster, that might be pretty cool.

Actually I'd consider the best spot for a really large supertall (400m+) would be around the world's largest bookstore or old bus terminal sites, or the empty lot near Armoury and chestnut streets. Along with Aura, it would add some bulk to a somewhat sparse part of the skyline in east/west views, be tall enough to complement the main cluster from the lake, but be far enough from the CN to not visually crowd it from most common angles.
Yeah, I'm definitely not against a huge tower being built, it would just have to be in the right location. There's a sizable lot behind City Hall that could use a supertall and it would complement Aura too.
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Old July 6th, 2014, 09:52 PM   #3886
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This.
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Originally Posted by Marcanadian View Post
Yeah, I'm definitely not against a huge tower being built, it would just have to be in the right location. There's a sizable lot behind City Hall that could use a supertall and it would complement Aura too.
The thing about Toronto is that CN tower is what makes its skyline special and recognizable. Just like the Space Needle is to Seattle. Location is definitely a factor to consider.
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Old July 6th, 2014, 09:56 PM   #3887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcanadian View Post
Yeah, I'm definitely not against a huge tower being built, it would just have to be in the right location. There's a sizable lot behind City Hall that could use a supertall and it would complement Aura too.
I don't see a huge tower being built in the foreseeable future anyway, due to economic reasons. Still lots of places to build cheaper and shorter buildings for office space.
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Old July 6th, 2014, 10:12 PM   #3888
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I don't see a huge tower being built in the foreseeable future anyway, due to economic reasons. Still lots of places to build cheaper and shorter buildings for office space.
Well we are getting our first supertall if the Gehry project is approved, so the city is definitely growing upwards. But I don't think we'll get anything over 400 metres anytime soon, maybe next decade or so.
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Old July 7th, 2014, 07:28 AM   #3889
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Old July 7th, 2014, 08:35 PM   #3890
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Took some photos from Polson Pier last night, looking over at downtown Toronto:




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Old July 7th, 2014, 09:51 PM   #3891
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I want to eat that!
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Old July 7th, 2014, 11:28 PM   #3892
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I hope you have very strong teeth and stomach.
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Old July 8th, 2014, 05:48 AM   #3893
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Few of Boston from the other day









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Old July 8th, 2014, 07:30 AM   #3894
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Superb pics. What park is that btw?
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Old July 8th, 2014, 11:15 AM   #3895
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Does Boston have a height limit?
If so, is it a product of the nearby Logan Airport?
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Old July 8th, 2014, 12:47 PM   #3896
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Quote:
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Superb pics. What park is that btw?
Thanks, it's called Robbins Farm Park in Arlington, just off Route 2, marked on the left side of this map.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ro...f82f6dc6ed7373


Quote:
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Does Boston have a height limit?
If so, is it a product of the nearby Logan Airport?
Boston as an overall city doesn't have a strict height limit, at least not one that has been fully reached. However, most areas do have some sort of limit, and yes it is due to the extreme proximity of the airport.

For instance, the financial district by the water has a height limit around 600'. Currently, there are 5 buildings between 590'-614' in the heart of the financial district (left side of the skyline in the above pics, 3rd-7th tallest buildings in the city) so that's about the limit until buildings draw closer to the Back Bay. (illustrated by below map)
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ne...a63d8ad6157d49

The Millennium Tower, which is currently out of the ground(!!!), will slightly raise the financial district peak, (to at least 625', possibly more like 650' with mechanicals) with another 600' tower coming at North Station, and a couple talls planned for the near future in Back Bay. (includes a 699' + mechanicals, so low 700's by the Pru, supposed to start by end of this year) Boston already has mass and decent height (18 buildings over 150m, 16 over 500'), but will add quite a bit more to both in the near future.

For an example of a stricter height limit in town, I give you the seaport. This is developing at an extremely rapid rate, but the tallest buildings are either 225' or 235'. Unfortunately, so much construction has been concentrated here (and other lower height areas, such as Kendall Square in Cambridge) that it almost seems to shrink the skyline, until the new larger towers show up at least! Then I think the last few years' worth of construction will all come together and the city will look much bigger. Currently, It's losing a bit of its verticality, due to newer smaller towers "stepping up" to the rest of the skyline.

Seaport compared to the rest of the skyline







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Old July 9th, 2014, 04:48 AM   #3897
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcanadian View Post
I guess it's just a preference of mine to have observation towers as the dominating figure in a skyline. It's their slenderness and unique design that makes them really stand out.
That's a view held by many, but eventually cities outgrow their observation towers. It's happened in Calgary, starting to happen in Seattle, and will happen in Toronto as well. I don't see the wisdom in restricting a city's development by the desire to have one structure the tallest forever.
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Old July 9th, 2014, 04:57 AM   #3898
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Quote:
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I think buildings between 375-450m in downtown Toronto would bring the CN tower more in scale with the rest of the skyline while still allowing it to remain the only focal point. Right now, it's too out of scale with the rest of the skyline, IMO. Buildings approaching 600m would be too much in competition with it, I think.
Agree, but Toronto won't need to concern itself with 600m proposals for a very long time. Over the next 2-3 decades Toronto will start seeing those 375-450m buildings you mentioned and they will do wonders for integrating the CN Tower into the skyline.

My only hope is that we see them scattered about the core. I'd hate to see them all earmarked in and around the CN Tower.
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Old July 9th, 2014, 06:43 AM   #3899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DZH22 View Post
Boston as an overall city doesn't have a strict height limit, at least not one that has been fully reached. However, most areas do have some sort of limit, and yes it is due to the extreme proximity of the airport.

For instance, the financial district by the water has a height limit around 600'. Currently, there are 5 buildings between 590'-614' in the heart of the financial district (left side of the skyline in the above pics, 3rd-7th tallest buildings in the city) so that's about the limit until buildings draw closer to the Back Bay. (illustrated by below map)
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ne...a63d8ad6157d49

The Millennium Tower, which is currently out of the ground(!!!), will slightly raise the financial district peak, (to at least 625', possibly more like 650' with mechanicals) with another 600' tower coming at North Station, and a couple talls planned for the near future in Back Bay. (includes a 699' + mechanicals, so low 700's by the Pru, supposed to start by end of this year) Boston already has mass and decent height (18 buildings over 150m, 16 over 500'), but will add quite a bit more to both in the near future.

For an example of a stricter height limit in town, I give you the seaport. This is developing at an extremely rapid rate, but the tallest buildings are either 225' or 235'. Unfortunately, so much construction has been concentrated here (and other lower height areas, such as Kendall Square in Cambridge) that it almost seems to shrink the skyline, until the new larger towers show up at least! Then I think the last few years' worth of construction will all come together and the city will look much bigger. Currently, It's losing a bit of its verticality, due to newer smaller towers "stepping up" to the rest of the skyline.
Thanks for the detailed explanation.
It looks like Boston will have a medium-height skyline (in comparison with the city's national importance) as long as the airport operates.
The much stricter limits at the seaport are a lot like downtown San Jose's (a city of a million), where all buildings are under 290'.
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Old July 9th, 2014, 04:37 PM   #3900
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