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Old January 3rd, 2012, 10:15 AM   #1141
Yellow Fever
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Old January 3rd, 2012, 12:21 PM   #1142
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I love those grand Canadian railway hotels.
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Old January 4th, 2012, 09:39 AM   #1143
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NY skyline is going to be great again with the addition of the new wtc.




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Old January 4th, 2012, 10:10 AM   #1144
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New York's skyline is great with or without the new WTC projects.
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Old January 4th, 2012, 11:56 AM   #1145
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Let's say it will be übergreat once the new WTC is finished. But seriously, New York really plays in a league of its own. People say Chicago's skyline is more balanced- well I say just wait till 1 and 4 WTC top out. It is by far the only city in the western hemisphere which can challenge any skyline in the world.

Also Toronto is doing so well! The gap to Chicago is getting smaller by the month! Still, Toronto needs at least one or two supertalls to challenge Chicago heightwise. In terms of highrises and continuous skyline, Toronto already has the upper hand.
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Old January 4th, 2012, 01:16 PM   #1146
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I agree 100%. New York is in a league of its own. Even if other cities on this continent one day equal New York's skyline in size, they'll never have those pre WW2 skyscrapers that dot Manhattan. New York's the gold standard. WTC will be New York's exclamation mark.

Toronto? 10 years ago, mere mention of Toronto's skyline reeling in Chicago's would have been met with fits of laughter and ridicule. Today it seems more a question of when, than if. People have been calling for an abrupt end to the Toronto construction boom for years, yet it keeps going and going and going.

It won't be long till there's little separating the 2 skylines. What Toronto still needs to make a legitimate claim to #2 are those super talls you mentioned. That final piece of the puzzle looks increasingly likely. There are increasingly loud whispers that a whole slew of super talls are imminent.

Exciting times for Toronto, that's for sure.
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Old January 4th, 2012, 08:21 PM   #1147
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I don't know if you have noticed, but there's a general trend here on SSC where people don't show any interest in old skyscraper architecture, especially in Art Deco style. So in their eyes NY's classic skyscrapers are just "old and boring". Today it's just about height, height and height!
No matter the desing.
No matter the location.
No matter the purpose.
No matter the working conditions.
No matter the quality.
No matter the surrounding.
No matter the vacany rate.

Also, a vast majority of forumers think that a city without a 2,000 footer under construction or even completed is just not worthy being nr.1 or even in the "top 10".

I mean it's getting ridiculous. I understand that booming cities are in the focus of interest nowadays, but to dismiss famous skyline cities (believe it or not, even Hong Kong!!) just by the mere fact of not having a megatall is just sad and pathetic.

Meh, I'm in a bad mood. But the rant was needed, you wouldn't believe what goes on in the World Development News Forums- so many uneducated comments there... one could easily ignore half of the posts lol.

Gn8!
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Old January 5th, 2012, 01:31 AM   #1148
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Completely agree with everything both of you said. In regards to height, I wouldn't want a 2000 footer in New York without several buildings serving as escalators to that building. So have a handful in the 1500 range. Otherwise it just looks horrendously out of place, that's why I think 1 WTC is the perfect height, fits in perfectly.

You can't say enough about the New York classics. I'll take the Chrysler building and the Woolworth over half of all the skyscrapers in Dubai, and most buildings anywhere in the world. Maybe it takes the chance to see them in person to appreciate them? I don't know, but the quality of the details, and ornamentation in a building like the Woolworth is unbelievable. It's not called the Cathedral of Commerce for nothing.

Also, HK, I've always wondered this, and maybe this isn't the appropriate thread, but what would it take for you to rank NY ahead of HK in world rankings? Just wondering.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 02:25 AM   #1149
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For Toronto to pass Chicago in terms of skyline, it will take more than sheer numbers in my opinion. Toronto, as well as most Canadian cities, lack landmark, non-observation tower supertalls. Toronto needs something like a John Hancock, Empire State Building, or Bank of China to dominate it's main cluster.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 03:20 AM   #1150
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In my opinion Toronto skyline is still a joke if being compared to Chicago. The main "skyscraper mountain" cluster of Toronto (which has some kind of "Moscow attitude" by its structure) would not even stick out by any means in the skyscraper sea of Chicago..

I really appreciate what's going on there currently nonetheless of course.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 06:29 AM   #1151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eduardo L. Ramirez View Post
In my opinion Toronto skyline is still a joke if being compared to Chicago. The main "skyscraper mountain" cluster of Toronto (which has some kind of "Moscow attitude" by its structure) would not even stick out by any means in the skyscraper sea of Chicago..

I really appreciate what's going on there currently nonetheless of course.
I wouldn't say it's a joke. Have you visited the Toronto forums? The place is beaming with projects here and there. But still, I think Toronto needs height and balance to even it out with Chicago. Chicago just has that balance that even New York, Shanghai or HK don't have
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Old January 5th, 2012, 09:34 AM   #1152
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I wouldn't have laughed at the thought of T.O. reaching Chicago's skyline scale 10 years ago because 10 years ago it seemed pretty much like Toronto would get BIG. (hell, I felt that way 30 years ago! ). People can alway fuss about the details. What some here may be missing is the rise of Miami which has nearly a dozen skyscrapers and supertalls on the boards and a slew of high rises as well. Miami is back in action baby!

As for Chicago, it's finally out of the doldrums as several new high rises are being built and many more are on the horizon (without mentioning the Old Post Office and the 2000 footer being planned ) so Toronto may need a little more time to catch up but it's really looking good for Canada's big boy.


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Old January 5th, 2012, 12:11 PM   #1153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
Completely agree with everything both of you said. In regards to height, I wouldn't want a 2000 footer in New York without several buildings serving as escalators to that building. So have a handful in the 1500 range. Otherwise it just looks horrendously out of place, that's why I think 1 WTC is the perfect height, fits in perfectly.

You can't say enough about the New York classics. I'll take the Chrysler building and the Woolworth over half of all the skyscrapers in Dubai, and most buildings anywhere in the world. Maybe it takes the chance to see them in person to appreciate them? I don't know, but the quality of the details, and ornamentation in a building like the Woolworth is unbelievable. It's not called the Cathedral of Commerce for nothing.
It's hard for me to imagine any skyline surpassing New York's because of those classic buildings. As beautiful as they are, I'm hoping the days of breathtaking architecture aren't gone for good, but will reincarnate in another form. I wish Toronto had gone through its big growth spurt in the 1920s, but better late than never. We have a ton of smaller buildings from that era, but only a couple over 100 m.

Regarding 2000 footers, Toronto does have the CN Tower. It's dwarfed the skyline ever since it was built and the city is only now growing up to it. Toronto isn't ready for another one that size, but a few close to 1500 ft wouldn't look out of place.


Quote:
Originally Posted by El Mariachi View Post
For Toronto to pass Chicago in terms of skyline, it will take more than sheer numbers in my opinion. Toronto, as well as most Canadian cities, lack landmark, non-observation tower supertalls. Toronto needs something like a John Hancock, Empire State Building, or Bank of China to dominate it's main cluster.
I agree with that 100%. Toronto really needs 1 or more show piece buildings to reach that next level, but I don't think they need to be in the main cluster. Perhaps 1 there, and another in Yorkville. That said, I'd be more shocked if one didn't get built. It's a perfect storm and the city's really reached a tipping point. Toronto can't keep building sub 300 m buildings forever.

I doubt you'll see super talls anywhere, but Toronto for a long time. Montreal has height restrictions of roughly 200m, while Vancouver really isn't that big: it's about the same size as Sacramento or Portland. Vancouver also has severe view plain restrictions. Calgary is the nation's #2 head office city, even there the city is likely a decade away from building on that scale.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 04:47 PM   #1154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
Also, HK, I've always wondered this, and maybe this isn't the appropriate thread, but what would it take for you to rank NY ahead of HK in world rankings? Just wondering.
Well, NY is certainly catching up to HK. I mean with all those new supertalls on the rise- especially the new WTC - one can't deny the fact that NY is doing a fine job what has been lost on 9/11.

The thing is, I don't like NY's skyline at night as much as HK's. I know, maybe I'm spoiled because we are considered to have the best night skyline, and also because of the the Symphony of Lights. NY needs to illuminate its buildings more, Manhattan is a sea of skyscrapers and there are still some dark spots when viewing the skyline at night. What I mean is the skyscrapers need an illumination which shows the their shape / contours. And and a nice crown lighting wouldn't hurt either (wth happaned to the AIG anyway, it's so dark lately- the top is barely visible!). I'm not talking about a tacky lighting scheme, I'm just saying some more lights would do the city good.

Another point is that I don't like some big fat boxes, which obscure the view. Best example would be the Lower Manhattan skyline where beautiful towers such as AIG, 40 Wall, 1 Wall etc are more or less totally hidden. But I think with the new WTC NY will get a new focal point, so the effect (described above) will be reduced somehow.

Also, I think that I need to stay for a couple of months to really appreciate the classic skyscrapers. There are dozens of gems which are simply hidden by taller and fatter skyscrapers. I guess that's called evolution.

To sum it up: I see NY gaining a lot of points this decade. If the city manages to put up all the towers proposed (talk about Tower Verre he?), well then HK has a "problem".
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Old January 5th, 2012, 05:50 PM   #1155
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That's fair. In regard to the AIG building, it was recently bought by a developer who plans to convert it to residential usage, so it's changing hands, being emptied, being massively renovated, etc, so when all that's done I'm sure they'll figure something out with the lighting but that's a couple years away.

Especially downtown, NY needs buildings to rise above the endless sea of 700 foot boxes. Once those new focal points are added, the WTC, Tower Verre, 432 Park, Hudson Yards South, One57, so that the 700 foot admittedly dull boxes are complimentary, as opposed to now where they're the focal point of the skyline, NY will be #1 in my book.

After that, the only real knock will be that the setting isn't as nice as Chi or HK. But to each his own I guess, HK and Chi are gonna have to make some nice additions to keep up in the near future.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 10:59 PM   #1156
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And some people think the skylines of North America are stagnant Sure it may not be on the same pace as some Chinese or Middle Eastern cities, but this continent boasts many supertall projects and arguably the most number of recognizable skylines in the world.
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Old January 6th, 2012, 12:57 AM   #1157
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I'm personally not holding out hope for a supertall here in Toronto. Supertalls are usually built for egotistical reasons and the developers in this city are obsessed with getting things done as economically as possible. We just might see a supertall condo because it the height might grab attention for marketing reasons but in terms of commercial skyscrapers, it isn't looking promising if all those new buildings and proposals south of Gardiner are anything to go by. People held out hope that maybe one day the likes of Manulife will build a glamour, 300m+ HQ here but I don't think they are doing too well these days so I doubt they'll be spending any money on projects like these. More than any supertalls, I think the lasting legacy of this still strong construction boom is the significant increase in high-rise density all across the city and I'm inclined to believe that I am not too bothered by that. Even if no new proposal comes to fruition, the buildings that are under construction right now will make a great impact on the skyline and the streetscape.
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Old January 6th, 2012, 04:03 AM   #1158
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I wouldn't say it's a joke. Have you visited the Toronto forums? The place is beaming with projects here and there. But still, I think Toronto needs height and balance to even it out with Chicago. Chicago just has that balance that even New York, Shanghai or HK don't have
I only meant in comparision to Chicago. Overall Toronto definitely has a great skyline (still in my World Top 10) and I already said that I really appreciate the current construction boom.
I fully agree to your description of Chicago's balanced skyline
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Old January 6th, 2012, 04:59 AM   #1159
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Quote:
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I'm personally not holding out hope for a supertall here in Toronto. Supertalls are usually built for egotistical reasons and the developers in this city are obsessed with getting things done as economically as possible. We just might see a supertall condo because it the height might grab attention for marketing reasons but in terms of commercial skyscrapers, it isn't looking promising if all those new buildings and proposals south of Gardiner are anything to go by. People held out hope that maybe one day the likes of Manulife will build a glamour, 300m+ HQ here but I don't think they are doing too well these days so I doubt they'll be spending any money on projects like these. More than any supertalls, I think the lasting legacy of this still strong construction boom is the significant increase in high-rise density all across the city and I'm inclined to believe that I am not too bothered by that. Even if no new proposal comes to fruition, the buildings that are under construction right now will make a great impact on the skyline and the streetscape.
I bet someone out there is plotting to build a supertall in Toronto but I hope they don't wait too long in the cycle like developers in Chicago keep doing. T.O. needs at least 3 good supertalls to set the bitch off.

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Old January 6th, 2012, 06:50 AM   #1160
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Toronto's a frustratingly pragmatic place. Sometimes I'm surprised that there are any frills at all: Yorkville, opera, festivals. Hopefully, there are enough people in Toronto that want a little more than Plain Jane 100% of the time. I think there are... I'd be surprised if Toronto didn't get a super tall in this building cycle.
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