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Old May 14th, 2012, 07:33 AM   #1521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralcoffin View Post
Agreed. Sorry if I got a little snappy; I know I can get headstrong sometimes.
Dallas might be my favorite of the 1980s oil boom skylines, as there are some interesting color and texture choices in the Dallas skyline. The green of the Renaissance Tower and the curved top of the Comerica Bank Building come to mind.
No worries! I completely agree. I love Dallas, especially at night. The Renaissance Tower has one of my favourite night lighting in North America
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Old May 14th, 2012, 08:52 AM   #1522
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Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
"EXTREMELY" biased is the person who won't let go of the stupid idea that Toronto is anywhere close to Chicago in terms of skyline. I'm pretty sure everyone here disagrees with you, every skyline ranking disagrees with you, every bit of evidence you give is just opinion based on the fact that you live in a city you obviously despise. I'd wager to say that you are just incredibly jealous of Chicago and feel the need to start a stupid discussion over it to overcome your petty inferiority complex. Everyone here is willing to acknowledge that Toronto's skyline is one of the best in North America BUT no one is willing to say it's better than Chicago's. Yet you continue to go down this endeavor, pissing off every forumer you meet and actually ruining our perceptions of Toronto in the process. Your boosterism isn't working, so cut it out!
I have to agree with you. I noticed he mentioned Chicago had bad architecture, well... it was voted by architects to have the best architecture in America... so, either he has a different opinion on architecture then everyone else, or doesn't live in Chicago. The whole statement about Chicago's population is also wrong. Chicago has gone from 3 million to 2.6 million just because of prices being high and people moving to the suburbs. BUT... the downtown area, especially the loop, has had major growth in population, which is what matters. Chicago's downtown is better then ever. Chicago now has atleast 8 200m + proposals in the work also. Toronto has a great skyline, but it needs better architecture.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 10:36 AM   #1523
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That's right. He has a different opinion; just like that architects poll is someone's opinion. Good grief!

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Old May 14th, 2012, 11:08 AM   #1524
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Originally Posted by GenericUser View Post
I absolutely LOVE Chicago, but unlike you, I'm all for acknowledging my city's weaknesses to give room for improvement. I guarantee that anybody that actually lives in Chicago, and isn't just a tourist there will vouch for everything I've said thus far. Please don't act like you, as a tourist, have superior knowledge of Chicago than I, a citizen. Not a single time have I said that Toronto's skyline is better than Chicago's either; I think you're just upset cause it is universally accepted that Panama doesn't even crack North America's top 10, let alone the top 5. In my opinion, Honolulu's skyline is a lot nicer than Panama's, and that doesn't even make the top 10 on most lists.

P.S. Don't lunge out and call me biased when I have continuously stated that Chicago is better than Toronto in a lot of ways. I'm just being realistic and acknowledging that Toronto has surpassed Chicago in a lot of ways, and that actually makes me sad. Especially when I see how vibrant Chicago was in movies like Ferris Bueller's Day Off. I wasn't born when that movie came out, so all I've come to see is a continuous decline, and I absolutely despise the city's administration and hold them 100% accountable for all of this. If you think I hate Chicago, you are DEAD wrong, as I have and will continuously state, I think it has North America's best skyline. Go back a few pages, I even ranked it on top of NY. In my opinion, you are just upset because your bias towards your hometown is so farfetched it makes most people here laugh. Putting Panama 3rd in North America? You think Panama has a nicer skyline than Houston, LA, Miami, Seattle? LOL...
You're telling me a Anglo-American has an Anglo-centric bias towards the skylines of Anglo-centric cities? I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you! This isn't even about Panama. I actually posted to agree with the forumer who said Chicago's skyline was better. You brought up Panama to hurt my little wittle feelings and I'm crying on my keyboard right now cause your opinion means so much to me. If anything, the fact that you are incensed just shows that this is emotional for you. Stop trying to make this a huge, scientific deal because the concensus is that Chicago's skyline is one the best in the world and Toronto's is a B-Tier Skyline on par with Chinese suburbs like Wuxi, Suzhou and Shenzhen. The fact that you keep arguing your point even though every post has disagreed with you shows that you don't give two flips about others opinions and just want to troll away as far as the horizon goes with your Toronto boosterism that nobody cares about. As for your insults about my city, I'd wager to say that you've never visited in your life because the Panamanian skyline is definitely one of the best in North America and definitively the best in Latin America. You can keep crowing all you want about Toronto but it will never be the best skyline in a region of 600,000,000 people
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Old May 14th, 2012, 11:13 AM   #1525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralcoffin View Post
Agreed. Sorry if I got a little snappy; I know I can get headstrong sometimes.

Dallas

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Dallas Skyline at Sunset by Phil Crawshay

Dallas might be my favorite of the 1980s oil boom skylines, as there are some interesting color and texture choices in the Dallas skyline. The green of the Renaissance Tower and the curved top of the Comerica Bank Building come to mind.
I was in Dallas last November and the skyline blew me away. It definitely exceeded the pics here on SSC. Even during the day it didn't look bad and that's incredibly rare!
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Old May 14th, 2012, 11:15 AM   #1526
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
That's right. He has a different opinion; just like that architects poll is someone's opinion. Good grief!


Architects aren't "someone's", they are experts in their fields and know much more about architecture than, say, an SSC forumer so there opinions should count way more than, say, an SSC forumer's. I think that's a false equivalency right there.

But I get your point, let's stop talking about how Toronto's skyline was built by the Gods and is absolutely superior to any other skyline in the hemisphere. I completely agree
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Old May 14th, 2012, 05:55 PM   #1527
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Originally Posted by iloveclassicrock7 View Post
I have to agree with you. I noticed he mentioned Chicago had bad architecture, well... it was voted by architects to have the best architecture in America... so, either he has a different opinion on architecture then everyone else, or doesn't live in Chicago. The whole statement about Chicago's population is also wrong. Chicago has gone from 3 million to 2.6 million just because of prices being high and people moving to the suburbs. BUT... the downtown area, especially the loop, has had major growth in population, which is what matters. Chicago's downtown is better then ever. Chicago now has atleast 8 200m + proposals in the work also. Toronto has a great skyline, but it needs better architecture.
LOL...do you live in Chicago? The funny thing is, every person that visits loves the place, because they're only focused on seeing the good. I love Chicago, but I think that our ego is killing the city, and has been for decades. We need to get off our asses and find a way to stop the population drain. Also, if you think that loop is all that matters, come say that to my community; Hyde Park (in the city of Chicago). It's an absolute joke that there are abandoned buildings all over the place, and crime is so rampant, even I, a person who hates living in suburbs, is considering moving. I can't live in downtown, because it is way too expensive.

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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
That's right. He has a different opinion; just like that architects poll is someone's opinion. Good grief!

Some people just think that their opinion > everyone else's. I would bet that many of these people have never seen Toronto in person

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Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
You're telling me a Anglo-American has an Anglo-centric bias towards the skylines of Anglo-centric cities? I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you! This isn't even about Panama. I actually posted to agree with the forumer who said Chicago's skyline was better. You brought up Panama to hurt my little wittle feelings and I'm crying on my keyboard right now cause your opinion means so much to me. If anything, the fact that you are incensed just shows that this is emotional for you. Stop trying to make this a huge, scientific deal because the concensus is that Chicago's skyline is one the best in the world and Toronto's is a B-Tier Skyline on par with Chinese suburbs like Wuxi, Suzhou and Shenzhen. The fact that you keep arguing your point even though every post has disagreed with you shows that you don't give two flips about others opinions and just want to troll away as far as the horizon goes with your Toronto boosterism that nobody cares about. As for your insults about my city, I'd wager to say that you've never visited in your life because the Panamanian skyline is definitely one of the best in North America and definitively the best in Latin America. You can keep crowing all you want about Toronto but it will never be the best skyline in a region of 600,000,000 people
You must be the one trolling, because I have continuously rated Chicago #1 in North America. Go look through my ratings in this thread, then talk. You're clearly upset because Panama's sea of bland concrete sticks doesn't crack North America's top 10, and it didn't in most people's lists, if you cared to look. Also, I never said that Chicago doesn't have better architecture than Toronto. I just said that beyond the few stand out buildings, Chicago is falling apart. You are a skyscraper enthusiast who probably doesn't care about the city. I, am a citizen of Chicago, and I'd love to see this city prosper in more ways than skyscraper muscle flexing. It is unbearable to see downtown pretty much rotting while these new skyscrapers get built on top of the mess. I simply said that we could learn a thing or two from Toronto and actually improve our city, not just give a few rich people better views of the dump below...

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Originally Posted by Manitopiaaa View Post
Architects aren't "someone's", they are experts in their fields and know much more about architecture than, say, an SSC forumer so there opinions should count way more than, say, an SSC forumer's. I think that's a false equivalency right there.

But I get your point, let's stop talking about how Toronto's skyline was built by the Gods and is absolutely superior to any other skyline in the hemisphere. I completely agree
Yes, Chicago has better architecture, but that is my opinion, not a fact. No matter what polls you bring, it is still entirely subjective.
Edit: What's funny is that I just looked at the ratings of many Toronto members in this thread, and most of them put Toronto behind Chicago. Yet you put Panama #3 in North America when it didn't get into most people's top 10, are claiming they are biased? LOL. Learn to be humble, it is people like you who are ruining Chicago. Why fix our infrastructure and transportation networks when we can give a developer more incentives to build a bigger building? By the looks of things, that's how its done in Panama

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Old May 14th, 2012, 08:48 PM   #1528
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There are certainly better skylines than Toronto in North America. Obviously New York City and Chicago don't even need to be mentioned ... Philadelphia, Houston, LA and Seattle can be considered legitimate candidates for number 3. But Panama City? I am honestly having a difficult time in coming up with reasons as to why it might be legitimately considered to have the 3rd best skyline in all of North America. People are entitled to their opinion, of course, and I would be foolish to ask someone to change it but certainly they must understand that no one else has been remotely convinced. They are free to draw whatever conclusion from it they please. Is it some sort of Anglo-Saxon bias or whatever? Maybe ... who knows.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 09:57 PM   #1529
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Originally Posted by koolio View Post
There are certainly better skylines than Toronto in North America. Obviously New York City and Chicago don't even need to be mentioned ... Philadelphia, Houston, LA and Seattle can be considered legitimate candidates for number 3. But Panama City? I am honestly having a difficult time in coming up with reasons as to why it might be legitimately considered to have the 3rd best skyline in all of North America. People are entitled to their opinion, of course, and I would be foolish to ask someone to change it but certainly they must understand that no one else has been remotely convinced. They are free to draw whatever conclusion from it they please. Is it some sort of Anglo-Saxon bias or whatever? Maybe ... who knows.
Anyways, I think Houston could maybe be 3. Here are some pics, I want everyone to weigh in, and say whether you love it, hate it, and whether it might deserve 3. I am still definitely thinking it shouldn't get 3rd though. It has 2 300m + buildings, and one around 280 meters, but it needs an iconic supertall building with great architecture that stands a little above the skyline, say 330 meters, to get the 3rd spot, and a river or lake would help its rank.







PAN

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- flickr deneyterrio

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- flickr OneEighteen

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Old May 14th, 2012, 10:13 PM   #1530
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There are certainly better skylines than Toronto in North America. Obviously New York City and Chicago don't even need to be mentioned ... Philadelphia, Houston, LA and Seattle can be considered legitimate candidates for number 3. But Panama City? I am honestly having a difficult time in coming up with reasons as to why it might be legitimately considered to have the 3rd best skyline in all of North America. People are entitled to their opinion, of course, and I would be foolish to ask someone to change it but certainly they must understand that no one else has been remotely convinced. They are free to draw whatever conclusion from it they please. Is it some sort of Anglo-Saxon bias or whatever? Maybe ... who knows.
I'm not sure if you are truly serious or just saying this to be kind. Everyone is entired to their opinions, but to say that Seattle has a better skyline than Toronto indicates that you likely have never been to Seattle. I hate to advocate Toronto so much, but I've visited it a few times and notice that it is SERIOUSLY underestimated here. I'd bet that a lot of that has to do with the fact that the typical skyline shots of Toronto capture maybe 25% of the skyline, at best

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Originally Posted by iloveclassicrock7 View Post
Anyways, I think Houston could maybe be 3. Here are some pics, I want everyone to weigh in, and say whether you love it, hate it, and whether it might deserve 3. I am still definitely thinking it shouldn't get 3rd though. It has 2 300m + buildings, and one around 280 meters, but it needs an iconic supertall building with great architecture that stands a little above the skyline, say 330 meters, to get the 3rd spot, and a river or lake would help its rank.
In my opinion, Houston is not even top 5 in North America. LA, and Philadelphia have better skylines and much more density. Houston is simply too scarred by barren surface parking lots at this point. It really isn't all that dense aside from a small cluster of buildings. Yes, you could argue that that is also the case for LA, but LA does have high-rises outside of the main cluster as well.
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Old May 14th, 2012, 10:20 PM   #1531
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Beautiful Chicago :D

Just thought I'd share this photo from a few months ago to add more than just words to this thread

[IMG]http://i50.************/2d0cggx.jpg[/IMG]

P.S. This is taken right outside of Merchandise Mart. That was my first time there, and I must say that the place is AMAZING. By far, the most amazing retail building I have ever been to!
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Old May 15th, 2012, 02:31 AM   #1532
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I'm not sure if you are truly serious or just saying this to be kind. Everyone is entired to their opinions, but to say that Seattle has a better skyline than Toronto indicates that you likely have never been to Seattle. I hate to advocate Toronto so much, but I've visited it a few times and notice that it is SERIOUSLY underestimated here. I'd bet that a lot of that has to do with the fact that the typical skyline shots of Toronto capture maybe 25% of the skyline, at best



In my opinion, Houston is not even top 5 in North America. LA, and Philadelphia have better skylines and much more density. Houston is simply too scarred by barren surface parking lots at this point. It really isn't all that dense aside from a small cluster of buildings. Yes, you could argue that that is also the case for LA, but LA does have high-rises outside of the main cluster as well.
Yeah, I am not too sure about Seattle, also I was mainly just showing Houston because it has a nice skyline, and 2 supertalls. Also, I know about Toronto's full skyline. It is horizontal to the lake, and goes back. It starts with the dense cluster of buildings, and then goes back to a fairly dense line of highrise buildings. It still isn't that dense or tall like the cluster though.
But it still should take the 3rd place, but it really needs better architecture.

Here are pics showing the skyline of Toronto and the density change







Still, very impressive.

Another US skyline to mention is Philly. It has a great collection of buildings, especially the Comcast center.

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Old May 15th, 2012, 03:08 AM   #1533
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As a Chicago resident, I wholeheartedly disagree with you. In my opinion, Chicago has way too many ugly buildings downtown. Just because they're older, it doesn't make them nicer than Toronto's.
Chicago has its fair share of ugly high rises and towers downtown for sure. And not all the pre-war are beauts however some of the newer towers are the major culprits in terms of schlock design, especially the condos in River North.
Quote:
Have you been to downtown Chicago? I live in Hyde Park, and my friend lives on Montrose, so we tend to meet up in downtown quite often. I can assure you that the quality of architecture is not all that great other than the few standout high-rises.
A few? Granted I still prefer most major European downtown centers over ours (or over most any North American city for that matter) and there are plenty of ho-hums and ugly Betty's standing amongst the crowd.

However if you think that the JHC, Lake Point Tower, Chicago Board of Trade Building, Marina City, Chicago Temple Building, Wrigley Building, Tribune Tower, Pittsfield Building, Jewelers Building, Lasalle-Wacker Building, Hotel InterContinental, London Exchange Building, Willoughby Tower, Carbide & Carbon Building etc. are all very average or not noteworthy and that many other city's wouldn't LOVE to posses such buildings themselves then I think you are flat out bonkers.
Quote:
It's kind of sad to see the city in such despair, but it is obviously a result of downtown's population having decreased by almost 30%
Do you live in Chicago? In fact downtown is one of the few neighborhoods in the past 15 years that has seen a very appreciable population increase. The Loop and downtown used to be essentially dead after dark. Now much of the time it is bustling at all hours.

The fact is much of the current population loss over the last 10 years stems from many of the Chicago outer neighborhoods (often the ones with now demolished public housing) and has had minimal effect on how how downtown looks.

In fact I can't recall one person who claims that downtown looked better twenty or even forty years ago compared to now. There is of course room for improvement and lot of utilized lots still to be developed but to say the trajectory is downward is just baseless.
Quote:
since the 60s while Toronto's, which was a fraction of Chicago's back then, is almost the exact same size now
Chicagos metro has grown nearly 3 million people since the 1960s. Toronto has become the migrant and immigrant magnet for a whole nation in that time. Toronto has played the part of a big fish in a smaller pond. It's domestic competitors for labor and business not exactly as tough as the sun belt and major tech centers of the US. Kudos to Toronto for benefiting from that dynamic however it doesn't make an apples to apples comparison exactly.
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Old May 15th, 2012, 05:37 AM   #1534
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Do you live in Chicago?
Yep, near E Hyde Park Blvd and S Lake Park Ave. You make some very good points, but I still think that a lot of the Loop has fallen into despair. Sure, the main streets are ok, but even South Loop is a dangerous place to go now!

However, since this is a skyline debate, I maintain my position that Chicago has the best skyline in North America

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Old May 15th, 2012, 10:43 AM   #1535
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A slice of Miami:

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Entrance to Miami River by Yankis, on Flickr

A bit more:

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Entrance to the Port of Miami by Yankis, on Flickr
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Old May 15th, 2012, 11:27 AM   #1536
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Pittsburgh

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Pittsburgh at Night Last Shot by Photomatt28, on Flickr
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Old May 15th, 2012, 12:56 PM   #1537
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Seattle

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/silverder/

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How a Seagull Sees Seattle by TIA International Photography, on Flickr
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Old May 15th, 2012, 01:36 PM   #1538
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A slice of Miami:
Damn, those look really nice. Miami sure is beautiful.
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Old May 15th, 2012, 05:10 PM   #1539
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Miami is absolutely gorgeous. My favourite features are all the canals in the city. Doesn't that water get stagnant though?
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Old May 15th, 2012, 07:31 PM   #1540
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Miami is absolutely gorgeous. My favourite features are all the canals in the city. Doesn't that water get stagnant though?
Those aren't so much canals as slow rivers and parts of the bay between built-up islands. I'd imagine the tides are pretty effective at keeping the water moving.
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