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Old June 2nd, 2012, 03:34 PM   #1561
yankeesfan1000
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Agreed. I still have Chicago as #1, but my hometown is catching up. Three buildings U/C in this photo, with a handful of 600+ footers inching closer to construction.


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Old June 2nd, 2012, 04:59 PM   #1562
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With 1WTC, 4WTC and One57 nearing topping out, the average skyscraper height in NY will experience a big step forward. The city already transformed from a 200m to a 250m plateau. The next step is 300m.

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New York City on June 2, 2012 von mudpig auf Flickr


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Old June 2nd, 2012, 06:48 PM   #1563
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Agreed. It's nice to finally have some towers rising above the 650-700 foot plateau in both midtown and downtown. It'll be a totally different skyline when One57, 1 WTC, and 4 WTC are done, and then we can watch at the very least 432 Park and the Hudson Yards South rise in the super tall category. Even friends of mine who have no interest in this at all are starting to notice, exciting times ahead for NY.
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 09:53 PM   #1564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
Agreed. It's nice to finally have some towers rising above the 650-700 foot plateau in both midtown and downtown. It'll be a totally different skyline when One57, 1 WTC, and 4 WTC are done, and then we can watch at the very least 432 Park and the Hudson Yards South rise in the super tall category. Even friends of mine who have no interest in this at all are starting to notice, exciting times ahead for NY.
I don't know if One 57 will change things that much, but 1 WTC definitely will be a huge game changer. NYC will probably be my 1# until 432 park finishes. I still feel like it will destroy the midtown skyline, it is way too thin for that height. I am really hoping that 432 park will stop construction, and a better building, maybe 225 w 57th will rule the skyline.

Chicago will remain a close second, and Chicago has a 290m+ building rising this decade, as well as several gorgeous buildings in the 200m+ range. Chicago already has height, it just needs to work on density and expanding the west loop and near north, which they are working on, with several U/C and proposed buildings in those areas.
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 10:33 PM   #1565
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One57 will anchor Central Park South which'll be big. Got 1 WTC downtown, ESB Midtown South, BofA in the middle of Midtown, and now One57 in northern Midtown. Plus it's a solid 1000+ footer.

Rumor is CIM will have financing for 432 Park by the end of the month, hold out until you see it, could be nice. I imagine high quality clear glass will be used, and then there will be a brushed nickel exoskeleton. Sounds nice to me. Plus 225 is very likely to get built, along with Verre plus 107 W 57th, all just along Central Park South.

Chicago is gonna have to step their game up.
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Old June 3rd, 2012, 12:55 AM   #1566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
One57 will anchor Central Park South which'll be big. Got 1 WTC downtown, ESB Midtown South, BofA in the middle of Midtown, and now One57 in northern Midtown. Plus it's a solid 1000+ footer.

Rumor is CIM will have financing for 432 Park by the end of the month, hold out until you see it, could be nice. I imagine high quality clear glass will be used, and then there will be a brushed nickel exoskeleton. Sounds nice to me. Plus 225 is very likely to get built, along with Verre plus 107 W 57th, all just along Central Park South.

Chicago is gonna have to step their game up.
Chicago had a huge boom from 2000-2010. Before the boom, Lakeshore East and the South Loop barely existed. Some of these pics are from before 2000, but LSE was built up in the period between 2003-2010

Chicago 1990's


Chicago 2000

Chicago 2010


Chicago 1988


Chicago 2007




South Loop


2003

2008



I still agree that it needs to step up its game, but it is crazy to see how far it has come in such a short time, and with all the development in the west loop, it will be exciting to watch the city continue to expand its skyline over the next decade.

During 2000-2010 Chicago got a building with a pinnacle height of 423 meters, tons of other very tall buildings, and massive expansion. With the market just starting to recover there are already close to 10 200m+ buildings that are either U/C or proposed, with the tallest proposal being a 290m+ building that is part of a billion dollar complex, so things are starting to pick up.

On my next post I will cover NYC and talk about 432 Park.
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Old June 3rd, 2012, 11:30 PM   #1567
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Both had impressive runs the past decade. In NY a decade ago Midtown ended at Broadway, and almost nothing that exists today west of Broadway today, was around in 2000. Once more of Chicago's proposed buildings shift to construction then I'll have some more confidence in their recovery, but it's definitely heading in the right direction.

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Old June 4th, 2012, 05:05 AM   #1568
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Manhattan dwarfs every other city on this continent. Monumental.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 05:20 AM   #1569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
Both had impressive runs the past decade. In NY a decade ago Midtown ended at Broadway, and almost nothing that exists today west of Broadway today, was around in 2000. Once more of Chicago's proposed buildings shift to construction then I'll have some more confidence in their recovery, but it's definitely heading in the right direction.

[IMG]http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5048/5353820645_55227f588c_b.jpg[IMG]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/360berl...n/photostream/
I just don't think Chicago will have 15 supertalls in development like NYC. This economy seems to be accelerating the corporate erosion in Chicago.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 06:13 AM   #1570
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I just don't think Chicago will have 15 supertalls in development like NYC. This economy seems to be accelerating the corporate erosion in Chicago.

Quote:
I just don't think Chicago will have 15 supertalls in development like NYC

Yeah, I don't see that happening. Chicago could definitely have 15 200m+ buildings, but 300m buildings... I don't see that happening, maybe 1 realistic 400m+ proposal within the next 5 years though.

Quote:
This economy seems to be accelerating the corporate erosion in Chicago
Not sure about this, Chicago's market has started to get better. I am not the best source for this, but I haven't heard about too much corporate erosion. The office market continues to get better, and a billion dollar project is happening at Wolf Point, with the tallest tower in the project being atleast 290 meters. I would say the skyscraper market is starting to get better at a quick pace...
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Old June 4th, 2012, 06:44 AM   #1571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iloveclassicrock7 View Post
Yeah, I don't see that happening. Chicago could definitely have 15 200m+ buildings, but 300m buildings... I don't see that happening, maybe 1 realistic 400m+ proposal within the next 5 years though.
I do think Chicago can easily build more high rises and skyscrapers than New York. land costs and zoning regulations in NYC are forcing more developers to go supertall with lots they can build on. Since skyscrapers and high rises are more capital-efficient, that's the path of least resistance in Chicago where rents and condo prices have to be competitive.

Quote:
Not sure about this, Chicago's market has started to get better. I am not the best source for this, but I haven't heard about too much corporate erosion. The office market continues to get better, and a billion dollar project is happening at Wolf Point, with the tallest tower in the project being atleast 290 meters. I would say the skyscraper market is starting to get better at a quick pace...
Chicago always suffers from field office closures and job losses during downturns but the Illinois governor's corporate tax hike made the situation worse. Sears threatened to leave and even after getting inducements to stay in Chicagoland, still cut jobs at its headquarters. Aon is moving their executive suite to London and others are considering moving out of Illinois. It's a disaster. One reason why office vacancy rates in Chicago's CBD are relatively stable is the fact that so little new office inventory was added over the last 10 years. Indeed, aside from the Blue Cross Blue Shield tower and the office portion of Trump Chicago, most of the construction in downtown Chicago since 1992 has been residential.
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Last edited by desertpunk; June 4th, 2012 at 07:19 AM.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 10:14 AM   #1572
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Old June 4th, 2012, 10:14 AM   #1573
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Chicago always suffers from field office closures and job losses during downturns but the Illinois governor's corporate tax hike made the situation worse. Sears threatened to leave and even after getting inducements to stay in Chicagoland, still cut jobs at its headquarters. Aon is moving their executive suite to London and others are considering moving out of Illinois. It's a disaster. One reason why office vacancy rates in Chicago's CBD are relatively stable is the fact that so little new office inventory was added over the last 10 years. Indeed, aside from the Blue Cross Blue Shield tower and the office portion of Trump Chicago, most of the construction in downtown Chicago since 1992 has been residential.
Yea Chicago hasn't seen such a hot decade, I really hope the future is brighter.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 02:50 PM   #1574
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Originally Posted by iloveclassicrock7 View Post
...Not sure about this, Chicago's market has started to get better. I am not the best source for this, but I haven't heard about too much corporate erosion. The office market continues to get better, and a billion dollar project is happening at Wolf Point, with the tallest tower in the project being atleast 290 meters. I would say the skyscraper market is starting to get better at a quick pace...
Desertpunk summed it up very well. But I thought I'd add that in regard to Wolf Point, two of those buildings are office buildings and won't get built without anchor tenants, so I'd pump the brakes a bit on Wolf Point. Plus, Hines is building River Point a stones throw from Wolf Point, which is a 1.2M sf office building there and that building is looking for tenants too. So until Wolf Point gets some commercial tenants, it's just a residential building. I'd like to be optimistic but I just haven't heard on here or SSP, of any companies looking for huge blocks of new space to drive commercial construction.
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Old June 4th, 2012, 08:51 PM   #1575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
Desertpunk summed it up very well. But I thought I'd add that in regard to Wolf Point, two of those buildings are office buildings and won't get built without anchor tenants, so I'd pump the brakes a bit on Wolf Point. Plus, Hines is building River Point a stones throw from Wolf Point, which is a 1.2M sf office building there and that building is looking for tenants too. So until Wolf Point gets some commercial tenants, it's just a residential building. I'd like to be optimistic but I just haven't heard on here or SSP, of any companies looking for huge blocks of new space to drive commercial construction.
I actually thought I heard about some big companies needing office space. I might ask Chicago George, he seems to be a very good source that can give realistic information for this type of thing. I did talk to him a bit not too long ago about general business/economy in Chicago on some economy thread, and although he is usually very pessimistic in general, he seemed very optimistic about Chicago's future as far as its economy and power on a worldwide scale. Considering that he really studies all the information, he is probably the best source on this site for that.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 02:47 AM   #1576
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I looked through the Chicago economy thread and didn't see anything that would give me reason to believe Wolf Point, or River Point would really fill up. Feel like helping me out with some links maybe? Hines' River Point will be a good indicator. 1.2M sf of speculative office space, Hines will be really anxious to get some tenants in there, so if they struggle, I wouldn't expect Wolf Point to get going any time soon.

Thanks to NYGuy on SSP for digging these up. Just realized I can see my office in the first one!

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Old June 5th, 2012, 03:00 AM   #1577
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Nice finds!
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Old June 5th, 2012, 04:24 AM   #1578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
I looked through the Chicago economy thread and didn't see anything that would give me reason to believe Wolf Point, or River Point would really fill up. Feel like helping me out with some links maybe? Hines' River Point will be a good indicator. 1.2M sf of speculative office space, Hines will be really anxious to get some tenants in there, so if they struggle, I wouldn't expect Wolf Point to get going any time soon.

Thanks to NYGuy on SSP for digging these up. Just realized I can see my office in the first one!

image hosted on flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mike_l_...n/photostream/

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/0718195...n/photostream/
I would look through the Wolf Point thread on SSC and SSP, and the River Point thread on SSC and SSP. I can't remember where I read it, but I think it was River Point SSP.
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Old June 7th, 2012, 02:09 PM   #1579
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Old June 12th, 2012, 06:14 AM   #1580
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for me it's Vancouver..
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