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Old April 14th, 2006, 09:39 AM   #141
FM 2258
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Getting a building on reclaimed land must be EXTREMELY expensive.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 12:24 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khoojyh

Victoria Habour-------------> Victoria River [/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258
I think they should fill in those yellow and green areas. Is that what they're going to go ahead and do?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
I doubt they'll do the yellow part. There was a lot of opposition for the Central Phase 3 Reclamation already. Even some of the green on the Kowloon side is contentious.
I agree with most of the hkskyline's points as the Gov't has already dropped the most of the yellow part of the reclamation as it was the plan for assuming huge population growth of HK. But I've no idea if there would be new reclamation plans for the Western part of the HK Island because the Route 4 (HK's highway) is connecting the western and the southwestern part of HK Island. Also, the remaining sections of Route 10, which is connecting between the HK Island, Lantau Island, Siu Lam and Lau Fau Shan would be built on those reclamed land. There're still some unknowns for those.

There are some mistakes from the Planning Department's map. The western part of Kowloon Peninsula and the SE part of tht Tsing Yi Island has been reclaimed for the Container Terminial.

Last edited by hkth; April 14th, 2006 at 12:31 PM.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 12:29 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Polo
All this recent land reclamation is a disgrace to Hong Kong. It simply makes is uglier and less friendly.
Sorry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _00_deathscar
Agreed!

Leave the flipping harbour as it is.

Soon we'll be able to swim across comfortably - and before you know it, Hong Kong's claim to "World's most beautiful harbour" will have disappeared. It's ridiculous.
But do you know most of the HK's skyscrapers were built on the reclamed land? Don't forget HK is a hilly city and HK had to reclam the land in the past for making the population growth and the economy growth!

Nevertheless, I do agree that the reclamation has to be limited in the future as most people in HK are really concern the environment and the coastal skyline.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 01:04 PM   #144
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HK needs Victory Harbour to be looked good. If the harbour getting narrower it won't make HK looked as good as today.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 03:05 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkth
But do you know most of the HK's skyscrapers were built on the reclamed land? Don't forget HK is a hilly city and HK had to reclam the land in the past for making the population growth and the economy growth!

Nevertheless, I do agree that the reclamation has to be limited in the future as most people in HK are really concern the environment and the coastal skyline.
Yea I realise that, but isn't the harbour narrow enough as it is?

What exactly are they aiming for here? A harbour narrow enough so that ants can jump across it?
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Old April 14th, 2006, 04:12 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _00_deathscar
What exactly are they aiming for here? A harbour narrow enough so that ants can jump across it?
Most properly use those reclaimed land for the properties.
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Old April 14th, 2006, 06:28 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FM 2258
Getting a building on reclaimed land must be EXTREMELY expensive.
Not really. 2 IFC is built on newly reclaimed land. As long as the bedrock isn't too deep, then construction costs shouldn't be much affected.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 09:48 AM   #148
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RTHK news:
Government again urged to modify plans for new HQ at Tamar 2006-04-15 HKT 11:12

The government has again been urged to modify plans for its proposed new headquarters at Tamar. The call comes from the Chairman of the Harbourfront Enhancement Committee, Professor Lee Chack-fan, in the RTHK programme: "Hong Kong Letter". He said that while the Tamar site was suitable for the relocation of the government's Central Government Offices, space should be reserved for other purposes. Professor Lee also called on the government to build a harbourfront corridor linking Wanchai and Tamar for public leisure purposes.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 10:06 AM   #149
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WTF!

That's what I'm trying to do....(for my harbour design competition).

By the way, wouldn't the Government site at the waterfront look really nice from a skyline point of view?

Be similar to the Fullerton in Singapore (although differente purposes) - but if they used the same classical sort of design for it and lit it up with a golden hue light.
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Old April 15th, 2006, 10:15 AM   #150
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Delete it!!!

Last edited by hkth; April 15th, 2006 at 10:21 AM.
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Old April 16th, 2006, 06:44 PM   #151
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Central bypass options set out Link to Wan Chai will eat up at least 11.5 hectares
14 April 2006
South China Morning Post

The proposed Central-Wan Chai bypass will require at least 11.5 hectares of reclamation, a government-commissioned engineering report has found.

Three types of tunnel construction were studied in the report by Maunsell Consultants Asia released yesterday, with two involving the demolition of the Island East Corridor from Victoria Park Road to City Garden in North Point.

The three tunnel options will involve construction costs of between $20 billion and $28 billion and annual recurrent costs of $110 million to $125 million. The tunnel would require 15 hectares to 18.5 hectares of reclamation.

Recreational features including a promenade linking Central and North Point, a green leisure zone, and a waterfront cultural district have been included in all three versions of tunnel option.

Compared with the three tunnel options, the flyover is cheapest, costing only $11 billon to build and $75 million per year in recurrent costs. It also involves the least amount of land reclamation - 11.5 hectares.

However, the consultants concluded that the flyover would have the biggest impact, not only visually but also by imposing constraints on potential harbourfront development. No recommendation was made as to which model the government should adopt.

The report also concluded that the approaches requiring no reclamation were not feasible because of the constraints of existing buildings and infrastructure. A deep tunnel option was also ruled out because it was not technically feasible.

Legislator Kwok Ka-ki said the government had yet to convince the Legislative Council on any of the proposals. "The government has to provide scientific data to prove that there is no alternative to reclamation," he said.

The area of reclamation ranged from 10 hectares for the flyover option to 25 hectares for the road option, according to proposed figures released in January last year. The figures have since been trimmed down following opposition from harbour protection groups.

The report will be discussed by the Harbourfront Enhancement Committee, under the Planning Department, next week.
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Old April 17th, 2006, 03:02 AM   #152
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^ that's a lot of land wasted for tunnel development, they better find some alternate solutions or else the reclamation project will be mostly wasted.
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Old April 17th, 2006, 04:53 AM   #153
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The whole purpose of having more reclamation is to build the underwater bypass and connect the waterfront parklands. Ironically, the plan with the least reclamation will destroy the parkland purpose.
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Old April 19th, 2006, 07:19 AM   #154
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Central & Wan Chai Reclamation Plans Map
Includes Shatin-Central Link Alignment
Click for larger version :
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Old April 19th, 2006, 08:59 PM   #155
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Tamar plan scaled down
Hong Kong Standard
Leslie Kwoh
Thursday, April 20, 2006

After months of heated debate, the government has unveiled a scaled- down version of its plan for a controversial HK$5 billion headquarters project at the Tamar site, but opponents insist the administration has "missed the point."
A new paper released Wednesday indicates a 10 percent decrease in floor area requirements from a 2003 estimate to 62,340 square meters of net operating floor area - but that is still a 60 percent increase on that available at the existing SAR Government Headquarters.

"In deriving this latest space requirement estimate, we have exercised the most stringent control," the government said in the paper.

"We have stringently trimmed down bureau requirements, including both staff offices and ancillary facilities."

The scaling back did little to win over the Civic Party, which represents the government's most significant hurdle to securing support for the project after apparent U-turns by both the Democratic Party and the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong.

Civic Party member and lawmaker Alan Leong Kah-kit, who sits on the Legislative Council's planning, lands and works panel, promised "questions would be raised" at next Tuesday's meeting, when the panel is scheduled to discuss the paper.

"I think many issues raised by civic society stakeholders - for example, about traffic, planning, and air quality - are just glossed over," he said.

"So I hope this is just the starting point. In order to engage civic society meaningfully and genuinely, there must be a true dialogue. That is what society deserves."

Leong added that his party is organizing such a dialogue for next month.

The paper also fails to answer environmental and traffic queries raised by local concern groups, said fellow Civic Party lawmaker Audrey Eu Yuet- mee, adding that is one major reason the party cannot support the proposal.

"It's not just about raising enough votes in the Legislative Council, but about answering queries backed by scientific data," she said.

"The government has the duty to sit down and meet these groups."

According to the paper, the traffic and environmental impact of the project will be "insignificant" as the proposed headquarters would only be "a modest office development."

In light of the lowered building height allowance, from 180 meters to between 130 and 160 meters, the development would attract only about 570 additional vehicles during morning and evening peak hours, or 1 percent of Central's total traffic flow, according to the paper.

It also dismisses air-quality concerns raised at a Legco meeting earlier this month, saying unease about a "canyon effect" whereby air circulation is hindered by tall buildings is unfounded as the Environmental Protection Department "has advised that there is no existence of such a canyon in the context of Tamar."

At a press briefing, Deputy Director of Administration Susan Mak Lok Suet- ling confirmed the government has received four construction proposals since launching a prequalification exercise in December and that a contract would be awarded early next year.

When asked whether the public will have a part in the process, however, Mak remained tight-lipped.

"There are many considerations we have to think about, the whole picture, not just the aesthetics," she said.

Civic Party lawmaker Ronny Tong Ka-wah said: "[The new proposal] simply demonstrates convincingly that the government is determined to go it alone without having to be too concerned with how the public thinks about it."

He said the government has failed to respond to his party's demands for long-term planning for Central, and as a result, "at the moment, we have not been told enough to be convinced."

The government's failure to reveal its space requirements in terms of gross floor area may be a sign that "something strange is going on," said an architect, adding that gross floor area includes the entire building floor area while net operating floor area excludes public utility spaces such as staircases, lobbies, and lifts.
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Old April 20th, 2006, 06:56 AM   #156
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縮減一成規模 政黨企硬叫價
添馬艦五障礙未除

20/04/2006



為爭取立法會支持添馬艦興建新政府總部計劃,政府不惜縮減總部一成規模,又考慮把大樓不多於兩成的面積建於地底,以進一步限制高度,盡可能滿足政黨的要求,但仍有「五大障礙」未掃清,令反對計劃的政黨繼續企硬「叫價」,或令計劃獲立法會高票通過的願望落空。

政府昨天向立法會規劃地政及工程事務委員會提交文件,提出添馬艦興建政府總部的最新規劃建議,新方案的淨作業樓面面積為六萬二千三百四十平方米,較○三年的估計下降約一成,只有制訂政策的核心辦公室才遷進新大樓,涉及員工約為三千二百七十人。

新政府總部可節省公帑,政府預計約有五千八百二十平方米外置於商業大廈的辦公地方將會騰出,每年可節省約三千一百八十萬元租金支出;亦會令政府物業可騰出約一萬二千七百五十平方米地方,包括修頓中心、稅務大樓、灣仔大樓內的政府物業等,讓其他分散地點辦公的部門遷入,因而有重置及退租機會,估計可節省開支每年達三千六百一十萬元。但律政司繼續留在金鐘辦公。

大樓高度限160米內
為確保山脊線下有兩成「無建築物遮擋地帶」,大樓高度限制在一百三十米至一百六十米;更考慮在招標文件註明,大部分停車場、機房,及部分共用設施如碎紙室、樓宇管理辦事處等可建於地底,有關設施建築樓面面積約二萬五千八百三十平方米,即大樓最多不超過兩成面積可建於地底。政府消息人士表示,在第三季完成招標後,設計才考慮諮詢公眾。

雖然順應政黨大多數的要求,但仍存有五大障礙,首先是高度限制。政府消息人士指出,地底興建有限制,如成本是地面興建同樣面積的兩倍,需要提供逃生樓梯和通風系統等,亦需更高能源費用。

針對民建聯要求在東南九龍建政府行政中心,但消息人士重申添馬艦是合適地點建政府總部,政府會把啟德用地發展為經濟蓬勃地方,政府不希望兩個工程都拖延。至於勞工界要求採用本地預製組件,政府仍研究法律問題和世貿規定,待六月向立法會財務委員會申請撥款前有決定。

民建聯:無投票意向
儘管政府讓步,但個別政黨仍然「企硬」。民建聯黨團召集人劉江華強調期望政府在東南九龍發展政府行政中心,帶旺當地經濟,在政府公布東南九龍計劃前,現階段沒有投票意向。工聯會立法會議員陳婉嫻原則上支持添馬艦工程,但期望當局交代使用本地預製組件。

民主黨副主席何俊仁直指新方案難以支持,要求最少把總部規模縮減三分之一,並把政府總部原址列為政府博物館。
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Old April 20th, 2006, 07:15 AM   #157
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立會新樓容120席
20/04/2006


特首辦搬進新政府總部後,特首不須在禮賓府辦公。 資料圖片

[本報訊] 政府為添馬艦工程上馬「搏到盡」,不單止順應外界訴求縮減新政府總部的樓面面積,同時又完全切合立法會行政管理委員會的要求,興建一座總面積達一萬六千零九十平方米的新立法會綜合大樓,預計可容納一百二十個議席。

行政管理委員會成員的李華明認為政府回應了議員的訴求,他說:「長遠計都要咁做,唔通二十年搬一搬咩!」勞工界議員李鳳英則認為政府預計可容納一百二十個議席的空間有「預見性」。

現時的立法會大樓前身是最高法院,八十年代後期轉為立法局使用,大樓的外牆已列為法定古。受制於大樓面積,現時立法會秘書處和議員辦事處的部分辦公室,分散設於附近政府總部西座和商業樓宇。

面積符行管會要求
為解決辦公地方不敷應用、議席及人手增加等問題,立法會要求政府在添馬艦興建新立法會綜合大樓,立法會行政管理委員會更認為新大樓應由低座及不少於一座高座辦公大樓組成,提供合共一萬六千零九十平方米的樓面面積。

政府目前拋出的方案,正正切合行管會的要求。在逾萬平方米的面積中,議員辦公室和設施共四千一百九十平方米,另三千六百四十平方米屬職員辦公室。
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Old April 21st, 2006, 05:45 AM   #158
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Waterfront committee holds line on bypass
Leslie Kwoh
Hong Kong Standard
Friday, April 21, 2006

Members of the government-appointed Harbourfront Enhancement Committee have refused to be swayed by the administration's arguments favoring the construction of the proposed Central-Wan Chai bypass in the form of a tunnel.

"This is the biggest test the committee is ever going to face. We are talking about seven or eight years of construction along the waterfront," committee member and property surveyor Nicholas Brooke said Thursday. "If we don't get it right, we are going to get the blame."

Brooke and other members recommended reinstating the flyover proposal and a "shallow water" trunk road proposal as options for consideration.

A report released by government planning consultants last week indicated a strong bias toward three tunnel options, even though a flyover option would be half as expensive and could be completed one year earlier.

Consultants further narrowed down their preference to one tunnel option which they said would be the least expensive (HK$20 billion), take the shortest time to construct (seven years), and require the least amount of reclamation (15 hectares). Moreover, consultants added, it would create the least impact on the traffic and surrounding environment.

"We hope members carefully consider the options in terms of costs, construction time, and environmental impacts," urged Deputy Secretary for Housing, Planning and Lands Robin Ip Man-fai at Thursday's meeting.

Phyllis Li Chi-miu of the Planning Department added: "Reclamation is the most important factor from a planning point of view."

But Brooke disagreed, insisting that "sustainability for future generations" was the most important requirement.

"Let's set aside reclamation concerns, let's not try to focus too much on cost," he said, adding that the HK$8 billion cost difference between the government's preferred option and the more expensive options was "not a big consequence" when compared with the "long-term implications."

While all three tunnel options share the same alignment - along the Wan Chai and Causeway Bay shoreline - Brooke said he personally favored the more expensive tunnel option because it will allow for a wider harborfront promenade, and a larger water recreation and entertainment zone.

However, government officials continued to push members to reach a quick consensus, insisting that time for the project is running out.

Members are expected to brief the Town Planning Board on their progress today before presenting their findings to the Legislative Council in late May.
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Old April 21st, 2006, 02:20 PM   #159
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Finally, some good news. I think it's pretty obvious that the most expensive option is the most beneficial to Hong Kong in the long-run.

Hope this gets done as quickly as possible. It's such a shame that the harbourfront will be "under construction" for the next 7 years or so =(
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Old April 27th, 2006, 02:08 AM   #160
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Lawmakers floored as Tamar HQ soars in size
Leslie Kwoh
Hong Kong Standard
Wednesday, April 26, 2006

Lawmakers were shocked Tuesday to discover that figures previously released by the administration concerning the proposed new government headquarters at Tamar were "misleading."

Officials revealed that the gross floor area of the proposed HK$5 billion complex at the prime waterfront site is estimated to be 120,400 square meters - nearly double the area cited by the government last week.

An administrative paper released last Wednesday indicated that the new complex would be scaled back 10 percent from previous estimates to 62,340 square meters of net floor operating area, a term that excludes corridors, restrooms, stairwells and lift areas.

"Gross floor area includes everything - like the car park and electrical plant rooms - so the discrepancy can be very great, but it also depends on the type of buildings involved," explained Director of Architectural Services Yue Chi-hang.

This new figure would reduce the efficiency of the complex to well below- average, according to experts.

A building's efficiency is calculated by dividing the net floor operating area by the gross floor area. The resulting ratio - in this case, nearly 50 percent - determines how well a building's space is used. In Hong Kong, 75 percent is deemed "low efficiency," said one local property surveyor.

Moreover, as government buildings are not subject to the Buildings Ordinance, officials are not obliged to reveal full details of the floor area and may use terms such as "gross floor area" loosely, the surveyor said.

The revelation prompted more than a dozen lawmakers to fire questions at the administration at Tuesday's meeting of the panel on planning, lands and works.

Liberal Party chairman James Tien Pei-chun questioned the project's HK$5 billion pricetag - plus the HK$48.5 million recurrent expenditure - which adds up to more than HK$40,000 per square meter, according to the latest floor area figure. He asked for a detailed breakdown of costs.

"The Liberal Party supports your project, but that does not mean you can have free access to public money," he said. "We don't support the budget."

Project Director of the Architectural Services Department Peter Yuen Ka- tat said construction will cost about HK$13,000 per square meter, and that furniture (HK$500 million) as well as other facilities will add to that cost.

Pressed further, he admitted he could not offer the exact breakdown of the HK$5 billion price and will have to respond later.

Pro-Beijing lawmaker Cheung Hok- ming, from the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong, demanded to know whether the government had studied the sustainability of the new headquarters to ensure that there will be no need to build another complex later.

Director of Administration Elizabeth Tse Man-yi said: "In terms of sustainable development, we don't have any concrete figures now. But we don't expect to have another new central government complex built 10 years later, so we are talking long-term planning."

She gave a similarly vague response to Democrat Lee Wing-tat, who asked about plans for the existing government headquarters at Lower Albert Road and Murray Building.

"We have to first see whether the new headquarters can be constructed before we do anything about the two sites," Tse said.

Legislators were skeptical about the government's refusal to provide details on space allocation and demanded officials specify which 3,200 civil servants are to be housed in the new headquarters.

"We have to make sure that all persons in the new complex are staff directly related to policy-making," Tse said, adding that only one third of all staff in policy-related bureaus will qualify for the move.

For example, she said, within the Economic Development and Labour Bureau, the port and maritime development office is "directly related to policy-making" and will be stationed in the new headquarters. The travel registration office, on the other hand, will stay behind.

The lawmakers requested an additional meeting before the administration submits its funding proposal to the public works subcommitee May 24.

DAB lawmaker Choy So-yuk and Independent lawmaker Albert Chan Wai-yip, both made it clear that more information is needed.
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