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Old March 17th, 2017, 03:16 PM   #1
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BOEING | 797 News & Discussion

ANALYSIS: Airline support gathers around Boeing MoM concept

US airlines are increasingly showing firm interest in Boeing’s middle-of-the-market aircraft concept, which could replace many of the 757s and 767s that they continue to fly.

Executives from both Delta Air Lines and United Airlines spoke positively of the programme, dubbed the “MoM” by some, as they look at their future aircraft needs in the roughly 200- to 260-seat segment at the ISTAT Americas conference in San Diego.

TAKING SHAPE

The specifications of the potential Boeing MoM – or in the words of Air Lease executive chairman Steven Udvar-Hazy: “just call it a 797” – are beginning to take shape, airlines and lessors say at ISTAT.

The twin-aisle aircraft, something Levy confirms for the first time, will have two variants with around 225 to 260 seats and a range of 4,800nm to 5,200nm.

...

“I’m pretty confident there will be two engine [options] on the next generation Boeing,” says Udvar-Hazy on the self-coined 797. He adds that he expects there will be one option from General Electric and another from a Pratt & Whitney and Rolls-Royce consortium.

...

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...ng-mom-434961/



Image source: http://www.airportal.hu/ap/viewtopic.php?t=37551
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Old March 17th, 2017, 03:28 PM   #2
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New Midsize Airplane Will Define Boeing's Technology Roadmap

At the ISTAT Americas conference in San Diego in March, Boeing actively promoted the impending launch of its 737-10X—to mixed response. Key lessors such as AerCap and Air Lease Corp. expressed doubt about the aircraft’s capabilities and service-entry timing. Airlines seemed much more interested in what could become of Boeing’s next big program, known as the middle-of-the-market aircraft, the New Midsize Airplane (NMA) or simply the 797.

...

http://aviationweek.com/commercial-a...nology-roadmap
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Old March 17th, 2017, 08:04 PM   #3
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wtf? new mid-size plane? What's the 787 for then?

Plus the aircraft design looks more like a 737 than a 'mid-size' plane...
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Old March 17th, 2017, 08:29 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manazir View Post

wtf? new mid-size plane? What's the 787 for then?

Plus the aircraft design looks more like a 737 than a 'mid-size' plane...
The 787 was a 767/smaller variant 777 long range replacement.

This will be a 757/smaller variant 767 medium range replacement.

This will also be a twin aisle as opposed to the single aisle 737 and 757.

To quote the article:
Quote:
Daniel Pietrzak, managing director of fleet management at Delta, agrees with Levy’s comments and elaborates a bit on what the carrier needs. “Look at it as a 757-300 capacity mission to something like a 767-200 – obviously new technology but with the size and range,” he says.
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Old March 17th, 2017, 10:54 PM   #5
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I think the prospect of the 797 is very exciting...A321 killer.
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Old March 17th, 2017, 11:06 PM   #6
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Didn't it mention somewhere the fuselage would be oval, but the pic above is round.
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Old March 18th, 2017, 04:33 AM   #7
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it is time to airbus to lauch a322
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Old March 18th, 2017, 06:34 AM   #8
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Look like 737 but bigger. When will this project launched ?
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Old March 18th, 2017, 02:34 PM   #9
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Don't focus too much on this picture, it's just an image made by by someone after earlier reports about a possible Boeing MoM plane. It doesn't necessarily show the plane that Boeing is talking about with airlines.

Boeing has to get the 797 perfectly right. It has to be bigger then a 737-9/10 / A321, but smaller and especially lighter then the 787-8 or A330-800, bettre range then the A321neo-LR and especially with similar economics as a 737-8.

After all the problems they had with the 787 they also must not financially mess this new clean sheet program up.
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Old March 18th, 2017, 06:23 PM   #10
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It also needs a short takeoff roll (loaded) for those winter Caribbean flights to Chicago n places. Thats one other thing that made the 757 so flexible compared to a 737 MAX 10 stretch.

Boeing have a handle on composite sections now so the design issues are not as complex as the 787

See https://www.gizmocrazed.com/2011/10/...ructed-images/
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Old March 30th, 2017, 02:22 PM   #11
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Boeing needs twin-aisle capabilities with single-aisle economics

Opinion: Boeing’s Twin-Aisle Midsize Jet Faces Big Challenges

The drumbeat for a new Boeing midsize jetliner is growing louder. The recent ISTAT and Speednews conferences saw constant references to the new jet, which will seat 220-260 passengers with 5,000-5,500-nm range. Air Lease Corp. Executive Chairman Steven Udvar-Hazy even gave it a proper Boeing designation: the 797.

...

http://aviationweek.com/commercial-a...0cfa65aee8fd6c
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Old April 8th, 2017, 06:31 PM   #12
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I think despite what people think, the Boeing MoM airliner could be a lot more popular than people think in addition to being a 757-200 and 767 replacement for US-based airlines.

Especially if Boeing can push the range of the plane to around 5,700 nautical miles. That's enough to fly from central Europe to Florida and Caribbean destinations, which makes the plane VERY attractive for airlines that deal a lot in package tours. Also, many regional routes are already pushing the capacity limit of even the Airbus A321, and could use something like the Boeing MoM airliner. A shorter-range version with a range of around 4,500 nautical miles could be very attractive to airlines in eastern Asia and on busier regional routes in Africa.
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Old April 10th, 2017, 01:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoulderGrad View Post
The 787 was a 767/smaller variant 777 long range replacement.

This will be a 757/smaller variant 767 medium range replacement.

This will also be a twin aisle as opposed to the single aisle 737 and 757.

To quote the article:
Isn't this exactly what the 787-3 was supposed to do?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing...eamliner#787-3

So why didn't they just buy that plane then, fuel economy maybe?

A321 Fuel Economy - 0.19 km per litre 0.45 NM per gallon
787-3 Fuel Economy - 0.12 km per litre 0.28 NM per gallon

Last edited by gincan; April 10th, 2017 at 01:20 PM.
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Old April 10th, 2017, 10:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gincan View Post
Isn't this exactly what the 787-3 was supposed to do?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing...eamliner#787-3

So why didn't they just buy that plane then, fuel economy maybe?

A321 Fuel Economy - 0.19 km per litre 0.45 NM per gallon
787-3 Fuel Economy - 0.12 km per litre 0.28 NM per gallon
787-3 was the same size as a 787-8 but with smaller wings to fit in smaller gates (290-330 passengers in 2 class). That would be just over the top capacities bandied about for the 797 (220-260 passengers). The 787-3 would also have a very small range of only about 3000nm, while the 797 is shooting for closer to 5000nm. Pretty different operations.
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Old April 11th, 2017, 01:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacto7654 View Post
I think despite what people think, the Boeing MoM airliner could be a lot more popular than people think in addition to being a 757-200 and 767 replacement for US-based airlines.

Especially if Boeing can push the range of the plane to around 5,700 nautical miles. That's enough to fly from central Europe to Florida and Caribbean destinations, which makes the plane VERY attractive for airlines that deal a lot in package tours. Also, many regional routes are already pushing the capacity limit of even the Airbus A321, and could use something like the Boeing MoM airliner.
I am leery about the MoM project. With the 787 at 1500 orders or so there is no certainty it will even make a profit at 1500 orders or even 1800 orders in future.

OK Boeing learnt a lot about composites and could probably break even on a new design with 1200 frames but that brings up another issue. The 757 barely sold 1000 frames over its lifetime, same with the 767 (passenger versions only).

The combined market addressed by the 757 and 767 were eaten into by the A330 787-8 and by the A321 at the bottom end. Had the latter 3 been available in 1990 then the historic 757 and 767 production of 2000 odd would have been more like 1200 the pair. Other planes do a lot of the job

So I think the 797 has to wash its face on 1000 unit sales and that's that. A thin tube thin wing 737-10 will not hack it either and a new fuselage and wing are both needed here.

Can it be done??? Boeing need to launch the bird with 300 orders across 10 sizeable customers or it ain't worth it.
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Old May 4th, 2017, 09:49 PM   #16
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-04/rolls-royce-seeks-short-haul-return-via-bid-to-power-boeing-jet

Rolls Royce wants to put it's engine's on the 797.
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Old May 5th, 2017, 11:42 AM   #17
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My thoughts on B797 is that if Boeing goes for brand new airliner after B787 it will be B797 and I don't think it be possible only after year 2020
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Old May 17th, 2017, 07:04 PM   #18
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If it is to replace the 757 and 767, it will probably be something like the 787-3 which was supposed to be a high capacity regional 787 but this sounds like a smaller version of that. it says that it will be a twin aisle so it is possible that they might make it on the 787 platform. If it isn't on the 787 platform it can possibly have 7 abreast seating in a 2-3-2 arrangement like the 767.
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Old May 17th, 2017, 10:17 PM   #19
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The Boeing MoM/797 might have a fuselage section like this:



A very long single-aisle would require strengthening and turnaround times would be too long, while a 787-3 or a short 767 MAX would be too aerodynamically inefficient as the wetted area of the fuselage is too large. These are the reasons why the 757-300, 767-200, A300, A310, A330-200 lost their appeal. An elliptical fuselage section could tackle all those problems all in one and with composites, I think an elliptical fuselage could be made light enough. There is a new problem though, since it uses LD3-45 containers, cargo capacity is very low.

Airbus might respond with an A322 and A323 for those airlines who need cargo space. There are compromises either way in both long narrowbody vs. a short elliptical widebody.
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Old May 18th, 2017, 12:52 AM   #20
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One big Lessor , ILC , are interested in the MoM at $75m a pop or $150m list price. Bout the only way to do that is a 767 MaX reboot....not with conposites for sure.
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