RIJEKA - construction update

[OettingerCroat]

Originally Posted by bubach_hlubach

Hrvatski ti je naprotiv jako jako dobar, rekao bih da ti je pravilan 99 posto
'Pravilan' se koristi u Hrvatskoj, a mislim da se ista rijec koristi i u Srbiji.
'Tocan' 'Tocno' 'Tocna' je hrvatska rijec, Srbi kazu 'tacan' 'tacna' 'tacno'.
Izraz 'licna karta' se je koristio u bivsoj Jugoslaviji, danas samo u Srbiji, a mozda i u Bosni, iako nisam ziher za Bosnu. U Hrvatskoj se to zove osobna iskaznica

da, znam da se Licna Karta upotrebljavala u bivsoj Jugosliaviji, to su svi panduri govorili... tipicne srpske pizdarije

ali moramo priznati, Licna Karta je puno jednostavinje reci nego Osobna Izkaznica. nije tesko reci, ali nije prakticno.

(sljedeci paragraph ce biti los)
jedan put moj prijatelj je bijo u Mali Losinj za vrijeme Jugoslavije, i bijo se ljubijo ispod nekog hrasta s curom (ja bi sada bijo na pisao "sa curom," ali to je 100% pod Srpski), i evo dode pandur i vikajuci, pita obojicu za licnu kartu. ovaj moj prijatelj ne zivi u hrvatskoj niti ima pasos, a pogotovo ne licnu kartu. On govori hrvatski i engleski, i dosta je pametan bijo da NISTA nije rekao kad je pandur dosao. Cura iz Rijeke je to sve sredila, zato jer otac od prijateljice je bijo Direktor policije u Malom Losinju.

nije previse vazno ali je interesantno

[mic of Orion]

Originally Posted by bubach_hlubach

I would love it to be $50Bn, but hell yeah..it is not! lol

Take a look at this



Istria (2004) - population = 200.000
- exports = 920 million US Dollars

Zagreb (2004) - population = 800.000
- exports = 3.5 billion US Dollars

Here I didnt add aditional 2 billion USD that Istria earns from tourism per year.

Ok let me give you some idea - want go to deep how you come to GDP statistics, as it would take to long, and I'm not in mood to give you or anyone else an economics lecture....

GDP is derived from overall output of the entire state, (region , city, and so on), it cumulative output of the state, in one given term, this output is measured how effective it is on population of one say region/country and how this effects contribute to overall picture of economic base.

Example, say Istria exports 920 million US$ worth of exports, now of this 920 million US$ how much did this was spent in Croatia? Say raw materials, workforce, pays, taxes, export taxes, insurance and so on!
Now if say 50% of 920 million had to be spent on importing raw materials, than automatically this is no more beneficiary to the region or state as it didn't contribute with the output of the state but rather the opposite, we needed to spend money to get this raw material for our exports. Ok, now that 50% is gone (it is out of GDP calculations) we have to calculate how this remaining 50% is spent and where, now if we need to pay for electricity, transport, workforce and so on to use this raw (manufacture) material and create exports we are contributing to the GDP cose spending money at home, but if we hire foreign firms to do all this work than we are outsourcing this service and only small fraction ends up in our GDP calculations, now if we used components towards our final exports and all where made in Croatia (manufacturing, marketing, design, accountancy and so on) than we are again benefiting the economy, but if they where outsourced than we are not. So of this 920 million we also need to include tax which state collects, CIF tax which is Cost fright and Insurance, and we need to include pays for the workforce which contributes to the GDP, all this elements are important, when you calculate them you find out much of it dose not really contribute to the GDP overall picture, I think 920 million US$ of export by Istria would probably bring only, 250-300 million US$ worth of GDP to Istria and I am now being very generous.

And this formula is used for everything, and this is how you come to the GDP figures for one region state and so on... It is painstakingly slow and very arduous work. Hope you now get the picture.... lol, Sorry don't want to sound like an asshole, quite the opposite, hope I didn't offend anyone here...

My estimates for Croatian GDP thus derive from all this research and trends. Just to tell you I am not economist, I did study economics but I didn't took calling to be an economist, (OK I worked for 6 moths with major bank in London as an Economic Analyst - Emerging Markets) I primarily work in Media and Journalism, I prefer it more.

[bubach_hlubach]

Originally Posted by SinCity

Bubach, that will make your "Istrian" friend happy.

OMG, SinCity! This is the second time you are calling out his name..geee, if he appears here again, how are we gonna ever get rid of him?


Seriously guys, we have to admit that Istria kicks ass, and that is not something we should be ashamed of, but something to be very proud of!

[mic of Orion]

Originally Posted by bubach_hlubach

OMG, SinCity! This is the second time you are calling out his name..geee, if he appears here again, how are we gonna ever get rid of him?


Seriously guys, we have to admit that Istria kicks ass, and that is not something we should be ashamed of, but something to be very proud of!

lol, Bubach, it is great , I love Istria, it is one of my favourite places in Croatia. Sorry with all this economics mumble jumble, but you asked for it, lol.

PS, thanx for the PM and it si great idea.....

[bubach_hlubach]

Originally Posted by mic of Orion

Ok let me give you some idea - want go to deep how you come to GDP as it would take to long, and I'm not in kind of mood to give you or anyone else an economics lecture....

GDP is derived from overall output of the entire state, region , city, and so on, it cumulative output of the state, in one give term, this output is measured how effective it is on population of one say region/country and how this effects contribute to overall picture of economic base.

Example, say Istria exports 920 million US$ worth of exports, now of this 920 million US$ how much did this was spent in Croatia, say raw materials, workforce, pays, taxes, export taxes, insurance and so on.
Now if say 50% of this 920 million had to be spent on importing raw materials, than automatically this is no more beneficiary to the region or state as it didn't contribute with the output of the state but rather the opposite, we needed to spend money to get this raw material for our exports. Ok, now that 50% is gone we have to calculate how this remaining 50% is spent and where, now if we need to pay for electricity, transport, workforce and so on to use this raw material and create exports we are contributing to the GDP cose spending money at home, but if we hire foreign firms to do all this work than we are outsourcing this service and only small fraction ends up in our GDP calculations, now if we used components towards our final exports and all where made in Croatia (manufacturing, marketing, design, accountancy and so on) than we are again benefiting the economy, but if they where outsourced than we are not. So of this 920 million we also need to include tax which state collects, CIF tax which is Cost fright and Insurance, and we need to include pays for the workforce which contributes to the GDP, all this elements are important, when you calculate them you find out much of it dose not really contribute to the GDP overall picture, I think 920 million US$ of export by Istria would probably bring only, 250-300 million US$ worth of GDP to Istria and I am now being very generous.

And this formula is used for everything, and this is how you come to the GDP figures for one region state and so on... It is painstakingly slow and very arduous work. Hope you now get the picture.... lol, Sorry don't want to sound like an asshole, quite the opposite, hope I didn't offend anyone here...

Mike, why do you keep apologizing? Just sit back and relax. I am actually really happy that i can talk about Croatian economy with somebody here.
It's not about a competition, but about sharing informations and learning new stuff, right? Right! I am very grateful when you or somebody else answers my questions here, you cant see it on my face cuz you simply cant see my face lol, but know that that feeling is here So dont feel bad next time, okay ? If we disagree on some views then we will talk about it..that is what discussions are for

Back to work..

I just wanted to compare the economies of Istria and Zagreb as two separate regions providing relevant data for each. I am not talking about their GDP. My conclusion after all is that Istria has a lot healthier economy than Zagreb. Istria has a deficit of only 18 million USD with the same rate of export per head, and for Zagreb to be like Istria should have a deficit of a 100 million USD at the most, not 4-5 billion USD.
Do you understand what i am talking about ?

p.s. I am just being realistic and very proud of Istria as one of Croatian healthiest economy! If just a half of our country was like that, we would be all set!!! The truth is here

[SinCity]

Originally Posted by bubach_hlubach

OMG, SinCity! This is the second time you are calling out his name..geee, if he appears here again, how are we gonna ever get rid of him?


Seriously guys, we have to admit that Istria kicks ass, and that is not something we should be ashamed of, but something to be very proud of!

OK, I promise not to make it a 3rd time. You know what they say about calling out the devils name a third time round involving superstition LOL

[mic of Orion]

Originally Posted by bubach_hlubach

Mike, why do you keep apologizing? Just sit back and relax. I am actually really happy that i can talk about Croatian economy with somebody here.
It's not about a competition, but about sharing informations and learning new stuff, right? Right! I am very grateful when you or somebody else answers my questions here, you cant see it on my face cuz you simply cant see my face lol, but know that that feeling is here So dont feel bad next time, okay ? If we disagree on some views then we will talk about it..that is what discussions are for

Back to work..

I just wanted to compare the economies of Istria and Zagreb as two separate regions providing relevant data for each. I am not talking about their GDP. My conclusion after all is that Istria has a lot healthier economy than Zagreb. Istria has a deficit of only 18 million USD with the same rate of export per head, and for Zagreb to be like Istria should have a deficit of a 100 million USD at the most, not 4-5 billion USD.
Do you understand what i am talking about ?

p.s. I am just being realistic and very proud of Istria as one of Croatian healthiest economy! If just a half of our country was like that, we would be all set!!! The truth is here

Yhea I think I know what you on about, is it exports? Surplus and deficit (in red) in overseas trade.
I'll tell you something, don't take to the hart, (nothing personal) just pure economics, If I can get for paper which I have plenty of, a new car, new plane, new computer or even a piece of bread than I am in advantage, cose only what I needed to do was produce a pepper (money). Now this is not the best way of securing economic stability but anyone who can do it for very long time successfully is doing a brilliant job, cose for less you get more. Any economist would agree with this connotation, but there is a catch, Croatia needs to start exporting more if it where to consolidate its account balance and recover some of the money lost due to the huge imports, debt and interest payments on this foreign debt.

I can ce where you coming when you say Istria pretty much covers its imports with its exports and this is great, it should be like that for rest of the country, but if economy is still in transitional stage (which Croatia still is) than it will take a bit more time for the country to adjust to export strategy, but I do think by 2010 Croatia will and should start to be major exporter and coverage of imports by exports would be more than pleasing...

But all this takes time and we'll ce how all this develops over next few years...

And amount of exports one region does, not amount to the development of that region or country as to indicate better living standards or economic performance it only indicated that particular region is good at exporting and has developed local industry geared for exports. Example Tiger economies of 80's and 90's most of the area, actually all of them are poorer than Croatia, and they export more than import about 2 to 3 times. What does it tell you, it only proves my point. Economical growth depends on exports true, but also (even more so) on internal investment (inward investment) FDI (Foreign Direct Investment) consumption and manufacturing as well as active participation of populace.

Economics are strange beast, nobody can predict it with absolute accuracy (if they did they'd be trillionaires, lol). And field has so many alternate thinking you'd think religion was complex, you seen nothing yet, I studied my economics course for first 3 years at Uni I was none the wiser when I finished, even my professor got it wrong on more than one occasion.

It just shows you, all you need it is very good analytical brain and you'll figure out most of the things, lol, well some of at least...



PS ----



Sin City can you clear you inbox cose it is full and I can't send you more PM's which reminds me I need to do the same, lol

[bubach_hlubach]

Mike, it is not that only Istria covers its imports with exports, but many other Croatian cities and towns do as well. For example Osijek hasnt ever had trade deficit, and you know how Osijek is being poorly ranked in Croatia.
Zagreb and the county of Zagreb are kind of cancer for Croatian economy in terms of trading deficit. Dont get me wrong, Zagreb does export quite a lot and exports are drastically growing, but at the same time it imports way way way too much. Zagreb's and its county's deficit makes almost 70% of Croatian trading deficit - this must be stopped! The only region that acts like Zagreb is Dubrovnik which hardly has any industry, but Dubrovnik can afford it because its imports are being covered pretty much with a large number of tourists.


@SinCity, I know all of us like to have some privacy sometimes, but pliz empty your mailbox hehe

[OettingerCroat]

Originally Posted by bubach_hlubach

@SinCity, I know all of us like to have some privacy sometimes, but pliz empty your mailbox hehe

THANK YOU BUBACH, i tried to get his attention on multiple occasions, but i failed

and bubach, ur english is perfect! i've still not noticed a mistake!

tvoj engleski je bolji nego moj hrvatski, ako je moj hrvatski 99%, onda tvoj engleski mora biti 99.9% ili bolje

[long foot]

Originally Posted by bubach_hlubach

Zagreb's and its county's deficit makes almost 70% of Croatian trading deficit - this must be stopped!

I will have to stop buying Slovenian Barcaffe (i will buy only Frank's)

[OettingerCroat]

Barcaffe is Slovenian? How come Oliver Dragojevic is singin in the commerical?

[long foot]

Originally Posted by OettingerCroat

Barcaffe is Slovenian? How come Oliver Dragojevic is singin in the commerical?

I guess they paid him for that It is the best coffee in the world!

[bubach_hlubach]

Originally Posted by OettingerCroat

THANK YOU BUBACH, i tried to get his attention on multiple occasions, but i failed

and bubach, ur english is perfect! i've still not noticed a mistake!

tvoj engleski je bolji nego moj hrvatski, ako je moj hrvatski 99%, onda tvoj engleski mora biti 99.9% ili bolje

Ohh thanks Although, speaking of my English, i would say that i am even better at making up new English grammar

p.s. I am in the States (Michigan) and been living there now for two years. It's funny to see how my German still interferes with my English sometimes hehe

[bubach_hlubach]

Originally Posted by long foot

I will have to stop buying Slovenian Barcaffe (i will buy only Frank's)

hahaha, this kind of attitude sounds very well known to me
I can see you have already adjusted at forum.hr quite well

[long foot]

I visit them sometimes, but level of discution is very low there. I like thier smilies

[bubach_hlubach]

Yes, you are right, it is really low and messy, most discussions wether is it about economy or regions and towns, all you can see are pointless political arguments and insults. Extremely pathetic. Not to mention political threads which are total circus with zero tolerance.

[OettingerCroat]

Originally Posted by bubach_hlubach

p.s. I am in the States (Michigan) and been living there now for two years. It's funny to see how my German still interferes with my English sometimes hehe

I had no idea you live in Michigan... Where in Michigan? I like michigan, its a Democrat Stronghold!

how come it says you live in Zagreb-Zabreg?

btw, i always liked that easy-going song Oliver sings about Barcaffe... typical relaxed Dalmatinac style... and its a completly pointless song; thats the best part!

[pobesnelizmaj]

Originally Posted by OettingerCroat

da, znam da se Licna Karta upotrebljavala u bivsoj Jugosliaviji, to su svi panduri govorili... tipicne srpske pizdarije

ali moramo priznati, Licna Karta je puno jednostavinje reci nego Osobna Izkaznica. nije tesko reci, ali nije prakticno.

(sljedeci paragraph ce biti los)
jedan put moj prijatelj je bijo u Mali Losinj za vrijeme Jugoslavije, i bijo se ljubijo ispod nekog hrasta s curom (ja bi sada bijo na pisao "sa curom," ali to je 100% pod Srpski), i evo dode pandur i vikajuci, pita obojicu za licnu kartu. ovaj moj prijatelj ne zivi u hrvatskoj niti ima pasos, a pogotovo ne licnu kartu. On govori hrvatski i engleski, i dosta je pametan bijo da NISTA nije rekao kad je pandur dosao. Cura iz Rijeke je to sve sredila, zato jer otac od prijateljice je bijo Direktor policije u Malom Losinju.

nije previse vazno ali je interesantno

Ruku na srce, meni je veoma komičano to izmišlati reči samo da ne bi ličio na srpski... . mislim, bez uvrede, ali meni je stvarno bezveze jedan isti jezik zbog politike i rata uništavati, jer mi možemo kako hoćemo, ljudi iz Srbije, Hrvatske ,Bosne i CG će se uvek razumeti i uvek pričati istim jezikom, posebno što se taj jezik na svim svetskim univerzitetima uči kao srpsko-hrvatski, pa i ovde na filološkom fakultetu se to naziva srpsko-hrvatski. te razlike između lične karte i osobne iskaznice su glupost, kao nije šija nego vrat ili nije govno nego se pas posro
to su samo razlike između dijalekata, a razlike između nemačkog na severu i jugu, ili francuskog u Francuskoj i Korzici , ili Kanadi su 5 puta veće nego razlike između dijalekata i narečja ovog jezika koji govorimo svi mi na prostorima ove četiri zemlje. offtopic al jebga...

[OettingerCroat]

ja se 150% slazem s tobom, ja mislim da je glupost, ali isto tako mislim da je potrebno imati razliku u jeziku izmedu dvije regije, samo zato jer je to normalno

sad cekaj da nesto razumjem: ove cetiri zemlje su Hrvatska, Bosna, Srbija, i Crna Gora?

[bubach_hlubach]

Originally Posted by pobesnelizmaj

Ruku na srce, meni je veoma komičano to izmišlati reči samo da ne bi ličio na srpski... . mislim, bez uvrede, ali meni je stvarno bezveze jedan isti jezik zbog politike i rata uništavati, jer mi možemo kako hoćemo, ljudi iz Srbije, Hrvatske ,Bosne i CG će se uvek razumeti i uvek pričati istim jezikom, posebno što se taj jezik na svim svetskim univerzitetima uči kao srpsko-hrvatski, pa i ovde na filološkom fakultetu se to naziva srpsko-hrvatski. te razlike između lične karte i osobne iskaznice su glupost, kao nije šija nego vrat ili nije govno nego se pas posro
to su samo razlike između dijalekata, a razlike između nemačkog na severu i jugu, ili francuskog u Francuskoj i Korzici , ili Kanadi su 5 puta veće nego razlike između dijalekata i narečja ovog jezika koji govorimo svi mi na prostorima ove četiri zemlje. offtopic al jebga...

Licna karta je pojam instaliran od tadasnjih jugoslavenskih vlasti koje su pokusale nametnuti taj zamisljeni plan provedbe srpsko-hrvatskog jezika (whatever it means). U Hrvatskoj se do ulaska u Jugoslaviju uvijek govorilo osobna iskaznica, nikada licna karta, jer sam pridjev 'licni' nije ni hrvatska rijec, vec srpska. U Hrvatskoj se oduvijek rabila rijec osobno-osobna-osobni-osoban, cak i za vrijeme Jugoslavije.
Zatim kako objasniti cinjenicu da se je takodjer u Sloveniji morala rabiti 'licna karta' koja nema veze sa slovenskim jezikom.

Istina je da se na stranim veleucilistima jos uvijek koristi termin 'srpsko-hrvatski', ali sve rijedje i rijedje, za kojih 5-10 godina bit ce potpuno izbrisan iz terminologije sto je relativno kratski vremenski rok unatoc cinjenici da su jugoslavenske vlasti sirile dezinformacije o ovom nepostojecem jeziku punih 50 godina.

Govoreci o 'ciscenju jezika', ja ne znam niti jednu novo izmisljenu hrvatsku rijec. Sve te 'nove' rijeci koje s vremena na vremena cujete su u principu stare hrvatske rijeci koje su bile izbrisane iz prakse i uporabe za vrijeme jugoslavenskog rezima, sto jos ide vise u prilog samoj cinjenici o razlicitosti hrvatskog jezika od gore nabrojanih jezika.
Osim toga, jedna stvar mi nije jasna. Zasto se stranci toliko srdacno brinu o sudbini hrvatskog jezika? Od tisucljetne hrvatske povijesti na ovim prostorima Hrvati su proveli samo 60 godina suzivota sa Srbima, Bosancima, Slovencima, Crnogorcima u istoj drzavi. Zar vi doista mislite da se pitanje hrvatskog jezika, proslosti, sadasnjosti ili buducnosti tice samo vas? Ovo pitanje se tice samo Hrvatske drzave i njenih gradjana, koliko god se to svidjelo nekome ili ne, to je tako Get used to it