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Old October 21st, 2017, 01:01 PM   #61
Baron Hirsch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo;143033552[url
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/53.9140/14.2514[/url] (the Polish town of Swinoujscie has no fixed link at all with the rest of Poland)
That is not so. As your map clearly shows, Świnoujście has two railway terminus stations that do not connect, Świnoujście and Świnoujście Centrum. The former is a mainline rail terminus, connecting to the PKP grid and remaining on the mainland, a short ferry ride from the city proper (as downtown is on the German-Polish island of Usedom and there is no bridge). The Centrum station is the terminus for a minor line, the UsedomerBäderBahn (a subsidiary of DB), connecting the various seaside resorts on the German half of the island Usedom, before passing the border and terminating in Świnoujście. This one, yes, has no connection to PKP services, but to the DB mainline on the German mainland via a bridge.
Świnoujście used to have another line and rail bridge to the mainland in its own right. This bridge lay in the south of the island and was destroyed and never rebuilt after WW II, as the new Polish-GDR border division of Usedom made the route inconvenient.
There are initiatives to rebuild the bridge, as it would drastically shorten the travel times from Berlin to Usedom, but it has so far not been listed as a top priority.
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Old October 21st, 2017, 01:53 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Gedeon View Post
Or via Murakeresztur-Gyekenyes-Koprivnica. This is the only electrified route, and today the only route trains take between Budapest and Zagreb.

But I remember that in the past there was a train that took Zagreb-Varaždin-Čakovec-Kotoriba-Murakeresztur route and onwards to Budapest.
there was also train Zagreb - Wien over Nagykanizsa, Szombathely and Sopron, quite recently. i don't know the route between Nagykanizsa and Szombathely probably over Zalaszentivan without diverting to Zalaegerszeg.
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Old October 21st, 2017, 02:31 PM   #63
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there was also train Zagreb - Wien over Nagykanizsa, Szombathely and Sopron, quite recently. i don't know the route between Nagykanizsa and Szombathely probably over Zalaszentivan without diverting to Zalaegerszeg.
How recently? I don't think so. There was one promotional ride (not open for passengers) of Gredelj DMU from Zagreb to Vienna and back via this route. Maybe you're remembering that.

Zagreb-Vienna trains have always been going via Maribor and Graz.
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Old October 21st, 2017, 03:34 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Gedeon View Post
Zagreb-Vienna trains have always been going via Maribor and Graz.
Interestingly enough, the travel from Zagreb to Vienna via Gyekenyes, Nagykanizsa and Sopron would take about 6 hours, while the fastest train via Maribor and Graz is slightly slower at present, with travel time 6 hours and 37 minutes.
The calculation is based on following data from the current timetable: Zagreb - Gyekenyes 1:31 (IC), Gyekenyes - Sopron 3:11 (regional), Sopron - Wien Hbf 1:13 (regional).
I don't mean that the present trains should be rerouted, but an additional connection would mean new customers (en route).
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Old October 21st, 2017, 10:14 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gedeon View Post
How recently? I don't think so. There was one promotional ride (not open for passengers) of Gredelj DMU from Zagreb to Vienna and back via this route. Maybe you're remembering that.

Zagreb-Vienna trains have always been going via Maribor and Graz.
Yes, there were passenger trains between Zagreb and Vienna also through Hungary not so long ago (in addition to the route through Slovenia), but I don't think they were running for more than a few years. They cancelled them, because apparently one pair of trains per day was enough and I guess there were more passengers via Slovenia (although I think the route through Hungary was faster).
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 12:03 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by x-type View Post
there was also train Zagreb - Wien over Nagykanizsa, Szombathely and Sopron, quite recently. i don't know the route between Nagykanizsa and Szombathely probably over Zalaszentivan without diverting to Zalaegerszeg.
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Yes, there were passenger trains between Zagreb and Vienna also through Hungary not so long ago (in addition to the route through Slovenia), but I don't think they were running for more than a few years. They cancelled them, because apparently one pair of trains per day was enough and I guess there were more passengers via Slovenia (although I think the route through Hungary was faster).
Yup, checked it now... my mistake.

There were direct wagons Zagreb-Koprivnica-Gyekenyes-Sopron-Vienna from 2009 till 2012 as IC 284/285.
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 01:02 PM   #67
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The route via Koprivnica - Gyekenyes would be also the shortest way for a passenger train between Zagreb and Bratislava; from Szombathely along the newly refurbished Porpac - Hegyeshalom route and via Rajka to Bratislava Petrzalka. I don't know if it proved to be an economically feasible project, but after all, why in so many years Rajka - Rusovce border crossing has not been given an opportunity to carry passenger rail traffic at all is a viable question.
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 03:55 PM   #68
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The route via Koprivnica - Gyekenyes would be also the shortest way for a passenger train between Zagreb and Bratislava; from Szombathely along the newly refurbished Porpac - Hegyeshalom route and via Rajka to Bratislava Petrzalka. I don't know if it proved to be an economically feasible project, but after all, why in so many years Rajka - Rusovce border crossing has not been given an opportunity to carry passenger rail traffic at all is a viable question.
It would... problem is, there is not much interest for such a train. And coordinating 3 carriers is a pain in the ass... maybe after the passenger transport gets liberalised, we will see more cross-border trains.
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 09:49 PM   #69
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The route via Koprivnica - Gyekenyes would be also the shortest way for a passenger train between Zagreb and Bratislava; from Szombathely along the newly refurbished Porpac - Hegyeshalom route and via Rajka to Bratislava Petrzalka. I don't know if it proved to be an economically feasible project, but after all, why in so many years Rajka - Rusovce border crossing has not been given an opportunity to carry passenger rail traffic at all is a viable question.
I work at the Ministry of Transport at the division responsible for rail transport and I can confirm that there are ongoing discussion with the GySÉV to put a line between Rajka and Petržalka into operation. The line is to be incorporated into the regional integrated transport system.
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 10:32 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
They are used only by passenger trains, but here are 4 other examples of cross border railways without track connection to other railways in one of the two states:
Another interesting one is Quiévrain (Belgium) - Valenciennes (France):
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/50.4071/3.6737

The line on the French side is still used to transport new trains from the Bombardier factory in Crespin (ex-ANF Ateliers du Nord de la France) to Valenciennes.

There have been talks on both sides a few years ago to reopen the line, either as normal train or as a new line of the Valenciennes tram system (similar to Saarbahn in Sarreguemines).

Unfortunately, the transport secretary is still searching for a 2.3m EUR budget to get the line reopened (for just only 1600 m of rail on the Belgian side of the border):
http://www.lavenir.net/cnt/dmf201702...s-valenciennes
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 11:29 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
I work at the Ministry of Transport at the division responsible for rail transport and I can confirm that there are ongoing discussion with the GySÉV to put a line between Rajka and Petržalka into operation. The line is to be incorporated into the regional integrated transport system.
What about the connection with Poland through Muszyna? No trains from 2010. And there is practically no railway connection between Poland and eastern Slovakia.
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Old October 23rd, 2017, 10:07 PM   #72
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Next short story...

Once upon a time in tsar’s Russia, more precisely in the end of 19th century, a new railway project was born.

About 120 years ago, Nikolai the Second, the last Emperor of Russia, has issued the guidelines concerning the improvement of a rail transport between Russia and an autonomous part in the North-West, the Grand Duchy of Finland, ruled by him. Tsar’s Governor Bobrikov in his attempt to assimilate the "alien non-Slavic race" of Finns, dissatisfied with the progress of his programme fiercely tried to strengthen the ties with the borderland not only by means of Russification, but also through the inter-development of economy and transportation. While Finland had the same rail gauge as Russia and its main line ended in Saint Petersburg, the networks were separated by the lack of a fixed bridge over the Neva river. The new project envisaged not only the new bridge, but also the construction of a new railway, parallel to the existing one, from St. Petersburg to Vaasa on the Gulf of Bothnia. It was very important also from the military point of view, to have an alternative if the existing coastal line via Viipuri (Vyborg) were cut off.

The new line had to run through Hiitola, Elisenvaara, Parikkala, Savonlinna, Pieksämäki and Jyväskylä, its construction started after 1899. The stretch from Elisenvaara to Savonlinna was ready in 1908, from Savonlinna to Pieksämäki in 1914, further to Jyväskylä in 1918. And in the same year Finland became an independent country, the border came just 70 km west of St. Petersburg, the communications between Finland and Soviet Russia ceased.

Next came the World War Two, the border between Soviet Union and Finland shifted over 100 km to the West, the line were cut apart again, now between Elisenvaara and Parikkala. The modern history of the line, at least in the Eastern Finland, hasn't been rosy either. Its stretch between Savonlinna and Pieksämäki got even renovated in 2008 at a cost of 42 million euro, but didn’t see a single passenger train thereafter and became closed again a few years later.

Rebuilt and disused (Huutokoski - Savonlinna stretch, from Wikimedia Commons)

The line never served its original purpose and is broken in a couple of places. From the point of cross-border communication, the only hope for this picturesque and mostly straight line could become the planned development of so-called Midnordic Green Transport Corridor from Asia and Russia to Scandinavia and North America, where this line is seriously taken into consideration as a central part. What are the chances, the future will tell.
(image from midnordictc.net)
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Old October 23rd, 2017, 10:30 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Kpc21 View Post
What about the connection with Poland through Muszyna? No trains from 2010. And there is practically no railway connection between Poland and eastern Slovakia.
There was a first year of a seasonal line between Rzesow and Medzilaborce this year. But the operation has been terminated until the next summer. Maybe we should wait for the future demand development.

But the north-eastern Slovakia is generally the worst served part of Slovakia on account of rail transport.
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Old October 23rd, 2017, 10:54 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
I work at the Ministry of Transport at the division responsible for rail transport and I can confirm that there are ongoing discussion with the GySÉV to put a line between Rajka and Petržalka into operation. The line is to be incorporated into the regional integrated transport system.
About Petržalka station - can you tell me more about it? Was it intended for more trains than just trains coming from the Kittsee route after being rebuilt in 1994-1998, or was the station intended solely for trains from Austria?

The other question - can you tell me how the passport/customs controls worked in Petržalka? I know that the Slovak passport controls were in the tunnel leading to the island platform, but I can't figure out how it worked - were passengers separated going to/from the platform, or was there just a single window used for both entry and exit?

Any information would be appreciated
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Old October 24th, 2017, 09:58 AM   #75
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About Petržalka station - can you tell me more about it? Was it intended for more trains than just trains coming from the Kittsee route after being rebuilt in 1994-1998, or was the station intended solely for trains from Austria?

The other question - can you tell me how the passport/customs controls worked in Petržalka? I know that the Slovak passport controls were in the tunnel leading to the island platform, but I can't figure out how it worked - were passengers separated going to/from the platform, or was there just a single window used for both entry and exit?

Any information would be appreciated
Yeah, it is ridiculous that one of the newest stations in Slovakia is currently served by trains heading to Vienna (or Deutschkreutz) only. Of course it was intended for more trains but you know, political cycles are sometimes responslible for crazy things.

There were some plans to extend some trains operated between Vienna and the rest of the western Europe to Bratislava, to build a tunnel under the Danube to connect Bratislava main station (imho one of the strangest stations I have ever seen - built in a curve with tunnel at the station gridiron [hope I used the correct notion]) with Petržalka.

But the demand was quite low. There were some InterCity trains from Slovakia that continued from Bratislava main station to Vienna through Petržalka but this service was terminated due to even two locomotive replacements within Bratislava (the first at Bratislava main station where the train changed the direction, the second in Petržalka due to different supply system in Austria - this was extremely time consuming). There were also some local trains operated from Petržalka but these services were terminated in 2011.

No passenger train has been operated between Petržalka and BA main station ever since. But there are currently some negotiations ongoing. Because, basically, we have a perfect new electrified double-track line between these two stations running as a lower floor of a road-bridge across Danube that has been the most overloaded and congested road section in Slovakia ever. Moreover the line connects all attractive locations (business centres, malls, etpc.). Paradox.

About the second question, I don't know how the passport inspection was made.

Here is the photograph of the departure table in Petržalka taken in 2007
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Old October 24th, 2017, 11:19 AM   #76
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When HSL between Spain and France was opened... it really had only tunnel.

From French side wasn't hard to operate due to same gauge but in Spanish side they still were u/c (HSL with standard gauge, classic ones with Iberian gauge).

Two daily trains Paris-Figueres operated and... they linked with two trains Figueres-Barcelona where to join with other trains.

These were all transits and duties that passengers had to do to go from a French train to a Spanish train when changing traing




Nowadays, in winter, five international services, up to seven in summer, depending of destinations without train changing. Most of them departs in Barcelona, one in Madrid and drive trhough this tunnel.
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Old October 28th, 2017, 08:17 PM   #77
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Today let me tell the story of a local narrow gauge line in Jura mountains that once linked communities in France and Switzerland, it's been the Nyon–St-Cergue–Morez Railway.

Images: morez1900.net, Wikimedia Commons, Dominics Bahnpics/Flickr.

On September 30, 1898, a new rail project became the subject of a Swiss federal concession application. It provided for the construction of a metro gauge railway from Nyon to Gimel, with an optional extension to St-Cergue and the French border. The concession for a metric railway line from Nyon to the French border was finally granted in 1912. The construction works began immediately, albeit delayed by the First World War. In France, the President of the Republic signed the declaration of public utility of the line between Morez and La Cure in 1913. The entire line from Nyon to Morez was completed in 1921.

Between 1921 and 1958, this new international line was operated by two companies: one Swiss and the other French. Before the WWII, the track improvements allowed to increase the speed to 30 to – 35 km/h in the steep mountainous terrain.

In 1958, after 27 years of operation, the French section became replaced by a bus service. On the Swiss side, in 1963 the significant aging of the rolling stock, infrastructures and installations prompted the NstCM to request a financial assistance for the renovation of the infrastructure. This request gave rise to several studies aimed at eliminating the railway and replacing it with a road service.
Only in 1982 the Federal Council has decided to maintain the railway and to carry its complete modernization. In 2004 works were was completed in Nyon, giving a new route within the city as well as a new Nyon underground station.

On the French side of the former line some attempts were made to reconstruct the line over the French border to the village of Les Rousses, In spite of a short distance, just over 2km, the communities involved rejected these projects due to the prediction of its insufficient cost-effectiveness.

The same railway, two different countries, two different fates of the tracks. One could say: Switzerland is a bit richer. Even if true, it's not a complete explanation, at least in my opinion. There are also two different attitudes in question...

More photos here.
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Old October 28th, 2017, 09:22 PM   #78
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the most famous railway loop in Europe :-) isn't it?
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Old October 28th, 2017, 09:40 PM   #79
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Well, quite a few similar exist, like French "La ligne des Hirondelles" (Dole - St. Claude), Swiss Bernina (St. Moritz to Tirano), Glacier (St. Moritz to Zermatt), Arlberg and Semmering in Austria, Centovalli and so on
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Old October 29th, 2017, 10:35 PM   #80
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@ volodaaa
Petrzalka is a fascinating station indeed. To be fair the service to Vienna ist at least an hourly one also well used if I am not mistaken. But as you said, Bratislava could use some better utilization of its railway network.


More interesting in the near future than the Petrzalka line is the Marchegg line to Hl.St. though, as far ast it comes to intercity connections between Vienna and Bratislava. Finally the upgrade of the Marchegg corridor is on track, even if they still take their sweet time (another 6 years or so). Finally there will be a 160 km/h electified corridor between those two cities, if the short connecting track on the Slovak side is adapted as well (is that on track as well, within that time frame?)

So I hope to see Railjets being extended from Vienna to Bratislava in 7 years or so. That would finally connect the Austrian long distance rail directly to the Slovak rail network. By then it would be nice to see some Bratislava Hl.St. upgrade.

EDIT:

The upgraded corridor is the longest absolutely straight rail corridor in Austria. It is one damn straight line from the branching point within Vienna to shortly before the border, yet it is one of the few non-electrified lines. It is really mind boggling. At least by 2023 it will be electrified and upgraded to allow for 160 km/h (perfectly sufficient for the distance, more than that would not grant much advantage for the short overall length).


http://infrastruktur.oebb.at/de/proj...ien-Bratislava
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