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Old August 17th, 2007, 09:34 PM   #381
lk3gno
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Only Santiago and Valparaiso(*)

Bye.
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Old August 17th, 2007, 10:51 PM   #382
nastyathenian
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One thing I’ d like to see in this thread is more ratings coming from experienced travelers (say those who have visited 10+ subway systems). For a start I am repeating my older post adding smilies beside each city.
Athens
Bucharest
Budapest
Vienna
Munich
Brussels
Antwerp
Rome
Charleroi
Rotterdam
Lille
London
Prague
Madrid
Frankfurt
Stuttgart
Nurnberg
Hannover
Amsterdam
Paris
Lyon
Milan
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Old August 18th, 2007, 01:57 AM   #383
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well if you are going to add ratings please add why you think they diserve that rating. I suppose you are using a scale from 1 to 5?
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Old August 18th, 2007, 07:18 PM   #384
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to bitxo:

I am sure you will gain me again soon!
Je je je
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Old August 19th, 2007, 12:10 AM   #385
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Sure, my scale is from 1 to 5. Various characteristics were taken into account, such as coverage of the city, architectural attractiveness, cleanness, safety from dangerous people. One smiley was chopped off for non full-metros (Antwerp, Charleroi, Frankfurt, Stuttgart and Hanover).
Athens
My city’s metro has only recently become worthy of 5 points. My ratings for previous years would be as follows:
Until 1999: 2
2000-mid 2004: 3
mid 2004- May 2007: 4
May 2007 – now: 5
It is by far the cleanest system of all I have visited. It is also very safe. On what other subway system would you carry your laptop on the last train, a little after midnight, without fear? The main drawback is that it is still small for such a big urban sprawl, although it has a sufficient number of stations in the city center: about 20 on the maps usually carried by tourists.
Bucharest
This metro is the only positive legacy of the communist regime. I was impressed because it was the first fully underground system I visited. If I saw it now, I would probably give it only 2 smileys!
Budapest
Although it does not cover sufficiently the city center, some stations have been recently refurbished and became very shiny.
Vienna
A complete coverage of the city center, nice architecture but a little more cleanness would be useful.
Munich
Nicely designed stations, very wide platforms, but suburban railway does a better job in transporting people to interesting places fast.
Brussels
Nothing special as far as design is concerned, but good coverage of the city. Some stations tend to get deserted at non-working hours, which, combined with the absence of personnel, creates a dangerous impression.
Antwerp
A tram network that travels partially underground. Nothing impressive.
Rome
Rome’s subway is a shame for such a great city. When line 3 is completed I’ll give it one more smiley!
Charleroi
Same comment as for Antwerp.
Rotterdam
Pictures published in SSC present it far better than I remember it from 1993. Today I would probably give it 3 points!
Lille
This was the first automatic system I rode. Rather clean and modern design.
London
This may be the longest system in Europe, but it is not at all attractive. If I lived in London I would avoid commuting on it. It looks as if it were designed for dwarfs. Everything is narrow: the corridors, the platforms and, most of all, the trains. When I first saw one of them approaching I thought: “That’s a toy train. How am I going to fit in there?”
Prague
It offers a good coverage of the tourist attractions, but it is rather dark and dirty.
Madrid
It offers a good coverage of the city center but many stations are dark and dusty. Moreover its older lines have narrow gauge and the system is infested with pickpockets.
Frankfurt
This underground tram is rather underused, which results in deserted stations.
Stuttgart
Very clean stations, but tramway routes are intertwined and rather difficult for a visitor to sort out.
Nuremberg
The smallest city in Germany with a full-scale subway, but the city center is not sufficiently covered.
Hanover
Rather clean stations but nothing impressive overall.
Amsterdam
It follows a useless route, circumventing the historic center. The very few underground stations are dark and dirty.
Paris
The most hyped metro in Europe. Most stations are covered with tiles of a kind used in public toilets! Everything is dirty and too many unpleasant people walk around. If I lived in Paris I would rather use buses. With so many bus lanes, I don’t think they are much slower than the metro.
Lyon
A very clean subway, a far cry from the Parisian metro.
Milan
A dark and dirty system, in urgent need of refurbishment.
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Old August 19th, 2007, 12:22 AM   #386
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Only Copenhagen and Paris.
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Old August 19th, 2007, 02:49 AM   #387
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Thanks for elaborating nastyathenian, but I see you really need to visit the Rotterdam metro again because it made a lot of improvements over the years in safety etc. and some extensions have been made also.
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Old August 19th, 2007, 04:48 PM   #388
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I'm following the example of nastyathenian and post here a list of short, critical remarks I collected over the years. I think some of my comments are too harsh to be published on my website, but for SSC they are ok... I hope nobody feels insulted...

So here is the list, ordered by year of last visit, latest first. So my next (possibly Porto) will be number 70!


69. Rio de Janeiro: A decent full metro, but a slow one: after arrival of a train, many seconds are wasted before the doors open, trains are standing in stations for a long time, and after the doors have closed, time is wasted before the train departs. Acceleration and braking are also slow. Trains are air-conditioned, stations have powerful fans for fighting the tropical heat. Stations are spacious and often marble-clad.
68. Rotterdam: Metro station architecture is as futuristic as the highrise buildings in this city. Older trains on the Calandlijn are very loud but there are also newer ones.
67. Montreal: A magnificent metro system with artworks as well as interesting architecture, every station is unique. A strange feature is that the doors close without warning and the drivers don't seem to care if somebody wants to enter, so groups of people can easily become separated.
66. Boston: As North Americas first subway, trains and many stations are a little worn out. But MBTA includes artworks in many stations, which makes at least some of them quite interesting. Furthermore, constructions can be seen everywhere, so things might improve in the future.
65. Turin: The metro is a rubber-tyred VAL line with platform screen doors, inaugurated in 2006. Stations are more spacious than other VAL's and each houses a large modern painting by Ugo Nespolo.
64. Genoa: With only six stations it may be one of the smallest light rail systems in the world. However, the stations by Renzo Piano (one elevated, one at grade, the rest underground) are spacious and nice. The newest station was recently opened in the city centre and helped increasing the ridership on the entire system substantially.
63. Shanghai: The metro network is modern and crowded, fares are low. Especially interesting (though not a metro line) is the maglev train to Pudong airport, which performs the 7-minutes trip at up to 430 km/h. And there's the Bund Sightseeing Tunnel cabin rail with a fancy light show, running under the Huangpu river.
62. Shenzhen: A metro network similar to Hong Kong's MTR. Much smaller but even more modern.
61. Hong Kong: Means of transportation is diverse here: MTR metro, KCR suburban metro, KCR light rail network in a suburb, doubledecker tram, the Peak Tram, the mid-level escalator, the Star Ferry, the fancy MTR Disneyland Resort line, doubledecker and standard buses. Many stations have platform screen doors.
60. Dublin: The suburban metro line called DART is cool because long sections of it run along the coastline and thus offer exceptionally nice views. Interestingly enough, the interior design of older DART trains has been copied from Hamburg's DT2 metro trains (and the leg space is just as inhumanely small). The city's two tram lines (LUAS) are not connected with each other but a metro section to link them is currently under construction.
59. Lille: The exemplary VAL metro is still the world's most extensive driverless metro system. Additionally, many stations have interesting architecture and some are decorated with works of art. Trains are narrow and half as long as normal metro trains but since the trains are driverless the frequency can be deliberately high. The stations are also short but all of them seem to have extra space prepared for a future platform extension. Maps in the trains are oriented according to the real direction (which means that the trains always point in the same direction). At elevated terminal stations, train turn-over can be watched through glass windows and the spookiness of driverless trains becomes obvious: The train runs to the holding track and, after standing still for only five seconds, changes direction and runs back into the other side of the station.
58. Newcastle: A system of very consistent design and typography with works of art in some stations.
57. Bilbao: Norman Foster did a great job in designing vaulted stations and glass entrances ('fosteritos'). The vaults are clearly inspired by Washington's metro stations with their concourse levels and arrangement of stairways. Lights abruptly turn brighter when a train is approaching and subtly fade to their dimmer state after the train has left. The fosteritos are almost as distinctive as Guimard's entrances in Paris. Trains can be walked through, have 1-meter gauge and are running on the left.
56. Milan: A magnificent city but metro trains and stations are of insignificant design.
55. Saint Petersburg: The system is smaller than that of Moscow but similar in its grand architecture.
54. Helsinki: Trains and platforms are wide and spacious here. The system consists of one forked line.
53. Los Angeles: Only the Red Line is a full metro line, while Blue, Green and Gold Lines are light rail lines. The Red Line has nice trains. Stations are decorated with works of art. Hollywood/Vine station is decorated with projectors, the ceiling is covered with film reels.
52. Copenhagen: This VAL-type metro opened in 2003. It is modern and has platform doors in the underground stations. Stations are about half the length of most other metros. The driverless trains offer a nice view from the first row of seats, even in tunnels because they are brightly lit. Additional S-Bahn system with a dreary downtown underground station.
51. Naples: The metro line which serves the main station looks like a railway, the other line is more modern.
50. Glasgow: "Clockwork Orange" is a metro ring line running completely underground. Stations are small and old and the low trains are painted orange and have rounded roofs.
49. Stockholm: Stockholm is famous for the many works of art in the metro stations, and it is nice indeed. A free booklet is available from SL customer service point in one of the downtown stations. Some stations have a special artistic atmosphere as they are simply caves that have been bombed into the rocky underground with the walls left uncovered and only painted with works of art.
48. Oslo: The only subway trains I've ever seen with two aisles between the seats. The seat layout looks like that of an airplane. Trains are partly old, partly new. All the five lines pass through the same downtown tunnel and run at-grade outside downtown.
47. Baltimore: One real metro line with comfortable blue trains and spacious stations, partly decorated with artworks. The other line is a light-rail line which runs partly on streets.
46. Washington: Elegant and very distinct station architecture, the underground ones are coffered vaults. The stations are spacious but in some of them seem to be too few escalators. All stations look more or less alike. Lights in platform edges start flashing when a train is approaching.
45. Pittsburgh: A light rail line with a few underground stations downtown. The underground stations are spacious and appealing. German-built Duewag trains.
44. Chicago: Extensive system, mostly elevated (hence the name "El"). Platforms and stairways made of wood and mostly narrow. Trains are not very comfortable. The "Loop" provides nice views of the skyscraper architecture. I joined a guided architecture tour in a subway train around the Loop which turned out to be very nice. O'Hare and Midway airports both have subway access. Most stations are elevated.
43. Athens: Good system with good trains. An older line is going to Piraeus mostly at-grade. Some very new stations within the city centre, some with lots of archeological exhibits.
42. Budapest: One of the lines is very cute and narrow as it was the first metro on the European continent. The other lines are Soviet style.
41. Vienna: Sleek silver trains with a neon-lit horizontal bar across the front run through well-architectured stations. Some of the at-grade metro stations are old railway stations which have been nicely refurbished. The newer stations are of decent modern design. Archeological objects found during construction of the underground lines are displayed behind glass in some of the stations. Line 6 has been built as a simple light-rail line, perhaps due to a sudden lack of money.
40. Nuremberg: With two lines of a high-quality subway and a third, automated one being under construction, this relatively small city has a really good system. Trains and stations follow the same pattern as in Munich.
39. New York: The abundance of subway lines is a "soothing" experience for the subway enthusiast. Trains however are mostly loud and rattly, the few new ones are better and have automated announcements. Several lines were first built as elevated lines, but after having proven success at the beginning of the 20th century, have been demolished and rebuilt underground. Several express lines pass stations of the local lines on additional tracks, and NYC's is a true 24-hour system.
38. Bielefeld: Actually a tram system with half a dozen underground stations but these underground stations are not too bad from an architectural point of view.
37. Moscow: The stations are world-famous for their palace-like architecture. The system is extremely efficient with trains running frequently and fast-moving wooden escalators. I saw trains running every 50 seconds during rush hour.
36. Kyoto: Only one line when I visited it but it was clean and nice.
35. Kobe: Clean and efficient like other Japanese metros.
34. Osaka: (Only S-Bahn visited).
33. Nagoya: Similar to other Japanese metros.
32. Yokohama: The metro system is similar to the one in neighboring Tokyo.
31. Tokyo: The system is huge, confusing, efficient and extremely clean. Train bodies are made of stainless steel. The station attendents are wearing white gloves but it's a myth that they push passengers into the overcrowded trains. I didn't see any overcrowded trains at all. A good opportunity to reach all the tourist places is the Yamanote S-Bahn ring line which runs at-grade. In some Yamanote stations, hypnotizing little tunes are played before train departure.
30. Newark: An old streetcar line, still with old cars, running mostly on its own tracks, away from streets, serving a handful underground stations.
29. New Jersey: The PATH trains are part of the New York subway network.
28. Barcelona: I can't remember much. Extensive system.
27. Brussels: Trains are narrow but the system is extensive and there are many works of art in the stations.
26. Lisbon: Some artistic Portuguese tiles in the stations. The old German-built trains are somehow cosy.
25. Lyon: Three lines. Trains are spacious and, though made of plastics, have an appealing design. Seats resemble sofas.
24. Madrid: Extensive system with another 100 km added in the 1990s. Most stations of similar design. I remember the trains being a bit noisy.
23. Rome: Simple trains and simple station design, as far as I can remember. The trains are wide with longitudinal seating so there's much space for standing passengers.
22. Singapore: System opened 1987 with platform doors and air-conditioned cars. Passengers can walk through the whole train. Nice station design with walls covered with natural stone tiles.
21. San Francisco: The BART is famous for its spacious and outstanding design. The BART system has been designed independently from any other train system known so far. Trains have carpets on the floor.
20. Toronto: Stations are spacious and elegant but look all very similar, differing in colour only. Good, fast trains with longitudinal and transversal seats mixed as in most North American subways.
19. Vancouver: One automated light rail line called Skytrain runs mostly elevated and partly underground. It is very similar to Toronto's Scarborough RT line.
18. Bochum: A relatively small city with a full metro line. The train doors have an outstanding opening mechanism: They have sensors inside and outside and open by themselves when someone is standing before the doors.
17. Bonn: Stations are simple and have a nice design. Very good: along the walls are zillions of seats for waiting passengers. Trains are the same metro-tram cars as in most of the Rhein/Ruhr area.
16. Düsseldorf: Fewer underground stations than the similar-sized city of Dortmund but the design is more decent.
15. Duisburg: A couple of underground stations of mediocre design. The platforms have parts with different levels, a low part for trams and a high part for metro trams.
14. Wuppertal: Trains are hanging below elevated tracks, for most of the way above the Wupper river. Some stations are made of cast-iron and wood in art-deco style. The system had its 100th anniversary in 2001.
13. London: Extensive system (in fact the world's largest). Trains are a bit rattly however, the few new ones are better. Many stations are deep below the surface, reachable with elevators only. It's often hot and stuffy in the stations. Jubilee Line differs from the other lines as it is partly new and has platform doors, faster trains and grand architecture. Docklands Light Rail is elevated, modern and driverless.
12. Dortmund: A confusing network with a handful of metro-tram lines and a lot of underground stations. S-Bahn station Dortmund Universität has a connection to the H-Bahn which with its hanging, automated cabins connects different parts of the university campus.
11. Essen/Mülheim: Some stations in Essen are not too bad. U18 is almost a full-scale metro running between Essen and Mülheim. The first several of London Dockland's trains have been sold to Essen and are running there now (with drivers).
10. Hanover: Several streetcar lines run underground in the middle of the city. Overall appearence of the system is dreary but a few design achievements have been made. Since the art project 'Busstops' of 1992 the city has a dozen spectacular bus and tram stops at street level by Frank O Gehry, Ettore Sottsass and other famous designers. New silver metro-tram trains have been designed by London-based designer Jasper Morrison in 1997.
9. Stuttgart: Several light rail lines with underground stations downtown. Train design by Lindinger. Additional S-Bahn system with some underground stations downtown.
8. Cologne: The metro-tram system is a shame for this city with a million residents. It's a chaotic system with many lines shared by tram and metro-tram trains. Most underground stations have very mediocre designs.
7. Munich: With wide trains serving well-architectured stations, this is Germany's best subway system. It is quite modern because Munich got its subway relatively late, for the Olympic Games in 1972. An additional S-Bahn system with several downtown underground stations has been inaugurated in the same year.
6. Frankfurt: Seven diverse lines, only one of them a full-scale subway line, the other ones derived metro-tram lines. There is an additional S-Bahn system with underground stations downtown and a line to the airport. Airport terminals are connected by an automated people mover.
5. Prague: Russian-type trains with automated announcements. Efficient system with some nice stations.
4. Berlin: 9 lines, mostly underground, solid trains. Various contrasting architectural styles. Additional S-Bahn system with many downtown stations, some of them underground.
3. Paris: Extensive, well designed system. The distance between stations is very short compared to other metros. Some lines have trains with rubber tires. Météor is a new automated line with platform doors. Additional RER system with some huge downtown stations.
2. Amsterdam: One older, full-scale metro line which avoids all the places interesting for tourists. Trains on the old line are similar to those in Hamburg. Other lines are newer but more like metro trams.
1. Hamburg: Opened 1912. Three horseshoe-shaped lines are winding their way through the city with 60% of the stations elevated or at grade. Passengers have to climb a step between platform and train level. Doors of the older DT3 type trains have to be opened manually. DT3's original design by Otl Aicher of the late 1950s has been spoilt by some strange design changes by operator HHA. Additional S-Bahn system with some underground stations.
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Old August 19th, 2007, 11:30 PM   #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micro View Post
I'm following the example of nastyathenian and post here a list of short, critical remarks I collected over the years. I think some of my comments are too harsh to be published on my website, but for SSC they are ok... I hope nobody feels insulted...
Thanks for your description micro! By the way, your site is very interesting. IMO there is no reason why you cannot express criticism there
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Old August 19th, 2007, 11:56 PM   #390
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Thanks. I'm anyways thinking about a major redesign, maybe the criticism will find its way in again.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 12:01 AM   #391
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I can now add Barcelona to the list...the system was okay, but it was damn hot at the stations and I was freezing in the trains...!
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Old August 20th, 2007, 12:07 AM   #392
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My list is very short: Warsaw, Paris, Milan, Vienna, Singapore, Barcelona
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Old August 20th, 2007, 12:18 AM   #393
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Hong Kong, Shenzhen, Tokyo, Bangkok, Incheon, Seoul and Vienna.

Damn, I've to travel more.
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Old August 20th, 2007, 12:25 AM   #394
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My new list:
Washington DC
Rotterdam
Amsterdam
Vienna
Berlin
Prague
Budapest
Warsaw

I always take a trip with the subway, when i'm in a "tube" city, but i haven't visited many big cities, so the list is short :/
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Old August 20th, 2007, 12:28 AM   #395
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I give you my impression about the ones I know:
Athens
The metro is clean and modern. Not enough lines.

Brussels
Metro seems old (70's) but clean. New lines will be built and new train will arrive. Tram are dirty (rail ways), old. Good network.


Lille
Clean and fast. Pratical to travelling from Lille to Roubaix and Tourcoing, til Belgium border. Maybe a better network for the metropol??

London
Big network with a lot of stations. Some of them are dirty or seem provincial rail stations! Tram links are clean.


Amsterdam
Very good trams! Perfect to visiting the city. More pre metro??

Paris
Good network from city to suburbs (RER, tram and metro). Metro smells, too hot in the stations. A lot of stations, like London.

Lyon
A very clean subway, a far cry from the Parisian metro. And tramway lines and funicular lines. Except the short line C!
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Old August 20th, 2007, 02:35 AM   #396
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I can now add Barcelona to the list...the system was okay, but it was damn hot at the stations and I was freezing in the trains...!
Barcelona has got air conditioned in all metro trains since 1986-91. This makes trains cooler inside, but it heats all stations...

New stations have got good ventilation to avoid that, but the old ones cannot do it and they become really hot in Summer.
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Yo si la ciudad no tiene metro, como que no es gran ciudad y entonces ya paso de vivir allí. Norreport+12000
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Old August 22nd, 2007, 02:02 AM   #397
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Boston
NYC
Philadelphia
Chicago
Baltimore
Washington D.C.

Paris
Lille
Frankfurt
Munich
Stockholm
London
Madrid
Valencia

Beijing
Santiago

Japan
Tokyo
Osaka
Fukuoka
Nagoya

Korea
Seoul
Incheon
Busan
Daegu
Daejeon
Gwangju

Last edited by goldbough; May 4th, 2011 at 09:05 PM. Reason: updated cities
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Old August 23rd, 2007, 02:39 AM   #398
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Only Rio de Janeiro and Brasília.
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Old August 23rd, 2007, 02:46 AM   #399
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Rating out of 5
Warsaw/ 3
London/ 4
Helsinki / 3.5
Paris/ 2
Cairo/ 3
Prague/ 4
Athens/4
Miami/ 3
Milan/ 2
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Old August 23rd, 2007, 04:05 AM   #400
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Only São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro.
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