LIVERPOOL - Anfield Stadium (45,276 -> 60,000)

[GunnerJacket]

Originally Posted by Demolition Dan

why their "model club" Arsenal are such a selling club under their mate Kroenke?

I'm not going to speak as to the management of Liverpool but as to your portrayal of of Arsenal I say "Bollocks!" Almost to a man the players sold have gone on to that rare circle of clubs capable of overpaying to such large degree it's foolish to compete. If they were losing players (that they really wanted to keep) to the likes of Newcastle, Villa or Everton then you'd have something, but instead we have the wealthiest of clubs/owners making bids that the players agents can't turn down. RvP, Adebayor and Nasri were given offers by Arsenal but wanted to fatten their wallets elsewhere.

Don't confuse Arsenal's unwillingness to overpay someone (let alone multiple someones!) 200k per week only to have those players go to Abu Dhabi FC, Sibneft FC, Barca or ManUnited with the concept of being a selling club. Especially since they've obviously made efforts to buy, as well. If you think Arsenal are a selling club than you must also be the type that felt 35M for Andy Carroll was a steal.

[RobH]

Originally Posted by GunnerJacket

I'm not going to speak as to the management of Liverpool but as to your portrayal of of Arsenal I say "Bollocks!" Almost to a man the players sold have gone on to that rare circle of clubs capable of overpaying to such large degree it's foolish to compete. If they were losing players (that they really wanted to keep) to the likes of Newcastle, Villa or Everton then you'd have something, but instead we have the wealthiest of clubs/owners making bids that the players agents can't turn down. RvP, Adebayor and Nasri were given offers by Arsenal but wanted to fatten their wallets elsewhere.

Don't confuse Arsenal's unwillingness to overpay someone (let alone multiple someones!) 200k per week only to have those players go to Abu Dhabi FC, Sibneft FC, Barca or ManUnited with the concept of being a selling club. If you do you're the type that felt 35M for Andy Carroll was a steal.

There are small a group of clubs which players will do anything to join. As a Spurs fan, it was shocking saw how unprofessional and brat-like Modric suddenly became this summer until he got his move to Real (which is why the club forced him to spend the summer training in isolation away from the 1st team).

Those clubs are way beyond both of our clubs, and beyond Liverpool.

Trouble is, I guess, is that Liverpool used to BE one of those clubs that every player wanted to join, yet now they're finishing below the likes of Spurs and Arsenal most seasons (three on the trot now I think).

That probably takes some adjustment. Liverpool have more potential than nearly any other club in the league given their fanbase and history, but unlike Arsenal, they have not built on what they've got and have not grown in the last decade or so. And like Arsenal and Spurs, they've been caught unawares by the new money coming into the league and have been overtaken by teams which don't have to pay their own way. I'd be genuinly happy to see all three of our clubs finshing in a top four along with Man Utd in a few years. That'd feel right to me. Can't see it happening though with City and Chelsea doing what they're doing.

[GunnerJacket]

Agreed, as we've covered elsewhere on these boards. Liverpool's problem is that (in addition to the takeover woes) they've obviously made some unwise personnel moves on top of their inability to match gameday revenues with ManU and now Arsenal. A few more Andy Carroll's and they're pulling a Leeds, but if they simply right the ship expense wise they'll be fine. And, yes, they have more potential than anyone not named ManU or being funded beyond sanity.

As to Anfield I feel they're making the right decision provided, of course, they have the land and design chops to do this right. There's little need to risk over building as the difference between 60k and 70k are literally the worst seats in the house that bring in the least profit per seat. Better for Liverpool to keep it intimate and real so as to maintain their tribal atmosphere.

I'd rather they get it right than get it soon.

[jts1882]

Agree with most of GunnerJacket's first post.

Arsenal are a good model for how to run a football club. They are economically viable and have had consistent success.

The last few years have been poor by their standards. Yet we have done so much better with our one LC win ), while they were selling off a number of important players. In the league, they have always finished above us.

In my opinion, Wenger has resisted letting players go a little too easily recently. He used to get great value (Anleka, Overmars & Petit, Adebayor) or keep them until they were done (Vieira, Henry). This continued until he kept Fabregas for a few extra years. But in the end he let Fabregas go relatively cheaply and didn't put up a fight for Nasri, Clichy and RVP. Still, its hard to say he's doing a bad job when only finishing behind United and the sugar-daddy clubs. Spurs and Liverpool can learn.

[GunnerJacket]

Originally Posted by jts1882

This continued until he kept Fabregas for a few extra years. But in the end he let Fabregas go relatively cheaply and didn't put up a fight for Nasri, Clichy and RVP.

To be fair everyone knew Fabregas would someday be going home, so I for one was simply appreciative of his years of service. As for the others it's hard to fight when there's essentially one bidder and the player has already made up their mind. For all intents and purposes Ade, Nasri and RvP had essentially agreed to terms with their new clubs and then complained enough to make the move happen, much like Modric, Ronaldo, Hazard... The sad truth of pro football these days.

[jts1882]

Originally Posted by GunnerJacket

To be fair everyone knew Fabregas would someday be going home, so I for one was simply appreciative of his years of service. As for the others it's hard to fight when there's essentially one bidder and the player has already made up their mind. For all intents and purposes Ade, Nasri and RvP had essentially agreed to terms with their new clubs and then complained enough to make the move happen, much like Modric, Ronaldo, Hazard... The sad truth of pro football these days.

True enough.

However, both Modric and Ronaldo stayed an extra season. Wenger kept Vieira and Henry even after they had angled for a move, and of course did well to keep Fabregas as long as he did. Adebayor was probably too good a deal to turn down (like Anelka and Overmars) but, with Fabregas leaving, Nasri was needed for another season. With RVP he let him go to United! Wenger doesn't seem to even try to resist anymore.

In the past you look at the players leaving and they had their best football under Wenger (Anelka, Overmars, Petit, Vieira, Henry, Adebayor). None moved to direct rivals (City weren't at the time). It's different now, as the players look like they are moving on to better things.

[Rossoliver]

Getting back on track, the plans announced by the council really need to be a solid driving force for all the other parties involved to get their act together. That includes LFC, who have to share the blame for the situation the area currently finds itself in. Essentially, the only real hurdles to the regeneration of the Anfield area and any redevelopment of the stadium are individual property owners who don't want to play ball, and continual dawdling by the club.

There is constant talk of doing things 'the Liverpool Way', and the implication is to act with honesty, dignity and all those similar virtues. The reasoning often given is that club greats like Shankly, Paisley and previous board members acted this way, so the new incumbents must do so too. The difference is that in the past, it wasn't done so in a self-conscious manner, and they were prepared to be ruthless in making the right decisions when necessary. They did things because they were the right things to do, not just the right things to be seen to do. These days, the frequent mentions of and the self-conscious adherence to 'the Liverpool Way' often mean that the right decisions are not being taken because too much emphasis is placed on perception, and a fear that 'the Liverpool Way' is in some way being eroded. If you want evidence of what I mean, look at the club's progress on and off the field over the past 20 years or so.

[Hammarby]

Do the owners believe that Liverpool will be back in champions league in the future? And fight for the league title again? In that case they need a 70000+ stadium.

[JD47]

Originally Posted by Hammarby

Do the owners believe that Liverpool will be back in champions league in the future? And fight for the league title again? In that case they need a 70000+ stadium.

We don't need a 70k seater to fight for the league. What we need is stability in the transfer market and with our finances. We do need a higher capacity stadium but it doesn't have to be 70k. Liverpool need to bring all these young lads in properly and not go about splashing the cash like we did with the Carroll move. Its going to be tight for a few years at Liverpool.

[C F Looprevil]

Originally Posted by JD47

We don't need a 70k seater to fight for the league. What we need is stability in the transfer market and with our finances. We do need a higher capacity stadium but it doesn't have to be 70k. Liverpool need to bring all these young lads in properly and not go about splashing the cash like we did with the Carroll move. Its going to be tight for a few years at Liverpool.

We also need to be winning and quickly. I called today and got tickets for Anzhi for next Thursday and the guy at the ticket office was saying that not only are tickets available for that but also we haven't sold out of Reading this Saturday yet!

Totally agree with you about splashing the cash, we need to be very frugal and make doubly certain that any new player brought in in Jan or next season are going to fit straight in!

[C F Looprevil]

Originally Posted by Hammarby

Do the owners believe that Liverpool will be back in champions league in the future? And fight for the league title again? In that case they need a 70000+ stadium.

Maybe, but 60,000 - 65,000 for us and our finances at present will be a massive help with regard to money coming into the club and more importantly right for us at this moment in time.

I just hope that FSG plan for future success and what is built now is done in a way so that another expansion is do-able at the right cost as and when we see success on the pitch and therefore getting tickets are once again at a premium

[C F Looprevil]

This guy really knows his stuff! http://petermcgurk.blogspot.co.uk/se...ve-part-series

Peter like me thinks that we should redevelop to the max, stand by stand and stop when we reach the demand. As and when we need to add again, we can move onto the next stand.

My personal thought is that the club will expand the main stand which will give us approx 52,000 and see where the season ticket list/demeand is up too, then, if we are selling out every week, remove the upper AR tier and make a seamless fit into the main stand to give us 60k with the corner filled in etc. After this, and if demand still outstrips supply, fill the corners of the Kop, and add extra rows to the back of the stand to make one massive big intimidating mo-fo! of a Kop end !!

[JD47]

Originally Posted by C F Looprevil

We also need to be winning and quickly. I called today and got tickets for Anzhi for next Thursday and the guy at the ticket office was saying that not only are tickets available for that but also we haven't sold out of Reading this Saturday yet!

Totally agree with you about splashing the cash, we need to be very frugal and make doubly certain that any new player brought in in Jan or next season are going to fit straight in!

I understand that we have to start winning but not for the reasons that a lot of other people have. People still have it in their mind that we can go for top 4. I don't think we are strong enough for the top 4 just yet and we need to build the ship before we can sail it. I really like Rodgers and think he is the right man for the job. He is not a quick fix. I can see us doing very well with him but its crucial that he gets it right with the young lads and in the market. Build for the future without splashing the cash. This can be done. There is so many good players out there that are dead cheap. I think if we can open a new page here, we will be ok for years to come.

I got about 6 tickets for me and a few guys for the Reading game on Saturday. I am thinking about going back over again next Thursday but it will be tricky to do. Midweek is a killer for me.

[C F Looprevil]

Originally Posted by JD47

I understand that we have to start winning but not for the reasons that a lot of other people have. People still have it in their mind that we can go for top 4. I don't think we are strong enough for the top 4 just yet and we need to build the ship before we can sail it. I really like Rodgers and think he is the right man for the job. He is not a quick fix. I can see us doing very well with him but its crucial that he gets it right with the young lads and in the market. Build for the future without splashing the cash. This can be done. There is so many good players out there that are dead cheap. I think if we can open a new page here, we will be ok for years to come.

I got about 6 tickets for me and a few guys for the Reading game on Saturday. I am thinking about going back over again next Thursday but it will be tricky to do. Midweek is a killer for me.

Totally agree with you, I like Rogers and his football. Have you seen what Sahin has said about us replicating Dortmund? I think it's a very interesting comparison. Team and ground wise!
I'm only up the road, so can get there easy enough. It's the price of taking me and the two kids that is the sticking point. Well I say that, it's really justifying it to the missus!

[RMB2007]

Any idea how long a CPO usually takes? I mean, I guess the residents could go to court over this issue, which would surely push any redevelopment plans back even further.

[C F Looprevil]

Originally Posted by RMB2007

Any idea how long a CPO usually takes? I mean, I guess the residents could go to court over this issue, which would surely push any redevelopment plans back even further.

I only have limited knowledge with the industry I work in (residential property),however, I believe that once a CPO is granted, it can be acted upon within a swiftish time scale but giving the residents enough time to find a property and arrange to move. Of course there could be a lengthy appeal process as is the residents right.

I really hope that it doesn't come to that. I don't live there but I certainly wouldn't be impressed if my local council decided that me and my family had to move against my wishes!! I'd also have a bet however that its going to be better at least financially for the residents if they take the councils offer of market value plus 10%, as they certainly will get less if they hold out until a CPO is granted

[RMB2007]

To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me at all if legal action was taken, 'cause comments like this show how upset some people in this area of Liverpool are with LCC, LFC and Arena Housing:

Some residents think LCC, LFC and Arena Housing have conspired in a premeditated effort to DEGENERATE the area and force home owners out. While others think that it is mere coincidence that three separate organisation have left vast amounts of their properties in the Rockfield Triangle area of Anfield empty, boarded up and neglected for 10 - 15 years.

All three organisations have contributed via a catalogue of secrecy, mismanagement and downright incompetence. They have treated this area with the utmost of contempt and expected its residents to be happy about it, they should be made accountable for the way they have blighted this area.

http://residents-forum.14127.n6.nabb...tp5001279.html

[JD47]

Originally Posted by C F Looprevil

Totally agree with you, I like Rogers and his football. Have you seen what Sahin has said about us replicating Dortmund? I think it's a very interesting comparison. Team and ground wise!
I'm only up the road, so can get there easy enough. It's the price of taking me and the two kids that is the sticking point. Well I say that, it's really justifying it to the missus!

Yeah I seen what he said. I think Dortmund are a good example. They were 13th and now they are winning the league. I think we can win the league in the next five years but we will need to have a stable club to do that. A new stadium would be part of that to which would be great. I hope to see a new stadium come soon along with a league title. By the time the stadium is done, we could have a league winning team.

The price for going to games is ridiculous now. I have to get a flight or a ferry over to. It would be worth it to see us win the league in a brand new Anfield. 60k is probably what it will be. That will be alright if we can also expand further down the line.

[C F Looprevil]

Originally Posted by RMB2007

To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me at all if legal action was taken, 'cause comments like this show how upset some people in this area of Liverpool are with LCC, LFC and Arena Housing:



http://residents-forum.14127.n6.nabb...tp5001279.html

Don't blame the outrage! How may people commenting on this would like to be kicked out your own home?

[RMB2007]

This development next to Edgbaston Cricket Ground also needed a compulsory purchase order, whilst one family battled for three years to stay in their home:

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/l...-forces-279466

If LCC and LFC face a similar situation, then any Anfield redevelopment could be many years away from happening. Interesting to see how it all plans out.