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View Poll Results: left, center or right aligned?
Left aligned 12 28.57%
Center aligned 10 23.81%
Right aligned 0 0%
mixed (overhead center, exit left aligned) 19 45.24%
i don't look at the signage anyway 1 2.38%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 22nd, 2007, 02:03 PM   #241
ChrisZwolle
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i wonder what is next to that bridge to make a 40km/h/25mph speedlimit.
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Old April 22nd, 2007, 07:29 PM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1491 View Post
i wonder what is next to that bridge to make a 40km/h/25mph speedlimit.
If you look in the background, it appears the road's about to make a serious curve to the left...
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 03:05 AM   #243
Alex Von Königsberg
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It is an interesting question. I didn't take this photo, so I don't know why the speed limit was 40 km/h.

There is a difference between the USA and Europe in a way the speed limit is set. In Europe, the speed limit may be lowered outside of populated areas to reflect the change in landscape such as the presence of dangerous curves, the width of the roadway, etc. In the USA, on the other hand, the speed limit outside of villages remains the same (e.g., 90 km/h), and should there be a curve or bent, a warning sign will be posted advising to drive with a certain speed. The official limit, however, will remain 90 km/h.

Also, within the National parks in the USA, the speed limits may be very low even though the road condition allows to drive at a much higher speed. This might just be the case.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 08:19 AM   #244
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There are advisory speed limits in Europe too.

In the Netherlands, this is signed this way:


note; this is not a minimum speed! (as seen in Portugal)
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 09:04 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by pwalker View Post
Alex, where was this taken? Looks like E. Washington.

I don't think this is that common in Washington, maybe up near the Canadian border, but I don't see a lot of signs like that.
Probably (hopefully) the start of a phase-in, coming soon to a sign post near you.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 10:01 AM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutterbug View Post
Probably (hopefully) the start of a phase-in, coming soon to a sign post near you.
Here's a page you would like, then.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 05:45 PM   #247
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vs.

How large should a US sign be, so that the numerical part will be equal to that of the European sign? It seems like a lot of wasted space to me. Why not to do like Canadians, at least?

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Old April 23rd, 2007, 05:52 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by lotrfan55345 View Post
All imperial here in MN. (I think)
In the US we use the SAE system ( smaller gallons 3.78 L ) not the Imperial system (bigger gallons 4.54 L & different measurements of force ) . In 1962 we set up metric equivilents , so technically we are tied to the meteric system .

Last edited by acorn; April 23rd, 2007 at 06:22 PM.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 06:55 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
How large should a US sign be, so that the numerical part will be equal to that of the European sign? It seems like a lot of wasted space to me. Why not to do like Canadians, at least?

If you saw that sign on the Trans-Canada Highway in the Fraser Valley, I think it means the number of East Indian farm workers you can fit into a van.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 07:38 PM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
vs.

How large should a US sign be, so that the numerical part will be equal to that of the European sign? It seems like a lot of wasted space to me. Why not to do like Canadians, at least?

These signs with a circle around 'km/h' speed numbers were just adopted for the first time in the latest USA Federal Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices ('MUTCD') update that was approved within the past two years. I'm glad that they adopted that circle and I consider it to be a very good first step. Previously, 'km/h' limits were to be displayed in the same manner as 'MPH' speeds, but only with a little 'km/h' under the numbers.

Now, perhaps that circle can be made red and some of the 'wordiness' removed in the next update. However, I think that the reason why the people maintaining that book are a bit skittish on that is that might conflict with the MUTCD's standard state highway route marker sign, which is a circle (but less than half of the USA's states use a circle to denote state highway numbers) and especially New Mexico's state highway route sign, which is a red Zia 'Sun' symbol circle around the numbers and they do look a lot like Worldwide standard speed limit signs. I'd like to see the Federal MUTCD go to a square for their 'standard' state route signs, like those used in Maine, Massachusetts, Texas, Illinois, Indiana and a few others.

We can only hope and lobby the right people.



Mike
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 08:04 PM   #251
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n/m
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Old April 24th, 2007, 12:30 AM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
These signs with a circle around 'km/h' speed numbers were just adopted for the first time in the latest USA Federal Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices ('MUTCD') update that was approved within the past two years. I'm glad that they adopted that circle and I consider it to be a very good first step. Previously, 'km/h' limits were to be displayed in the same manner as 'MPH' speeds, but only with a little 'km/h' under the numbers.

Now, perhaps that circle can be made red and some of the 'wordiness' removed in the next update. However, I think that the reason why the people maintaining that book are a bit skittish on that is that might conflict with the MUTCD's standard state highway route marker sign, which is a circle (but less than half of the USA's states use a circle to denote state highway numbers) and especially New Mexico's state highway route sign, which is a red Zia 'Sun' symbol circle around the numbers and they do look a lot like Worldwide standard speed limit signs. I'd like to see the Federal MUTCD go to a square for their 'standard' state route signs, like those used in Maine, Massachusetts, Texas, Illinois, Indiana and a few others.

We can only hope and lobby the right people.



Mike
I think the big difference is that in most states, speed limits are not codified under the prohibitory road regulations, as the red circle would indicate. They are regulatory, which is why it is in a black-and-white rectangle.

I do like the design, and think that it would be good if they used the circle for both standard and metric signs, just switching out MPH and km/h at the bottom, then getting rid of the words SPEED LIMIT at the top. We can work on the red circle way down the line. Of course, if the US does metricate, just get rid of the standard part of the last sentence.

The Canadian signs are as such to qualify as being bilingual, if I remember correctly.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 01:01 AM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1491 View Post
There are advisory speed limits in Europe too.

In the Netherlands, this is signed this way:


note; this is not a minimum speed! (as seen in Portugal)
Minimum speed signs are round (like the one from the bottom seen in my avatar), unlike those rectangular ones, which indicate the recommended maximum speed limit(not maximum legal speed limit).
We have them both in Portugal (and in the rest of the european countries, I suppose).
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Old April 24th, 2007, 04:59 AM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADCS View Post
I think the big difference is that in most states, speed limits are not codified under the prohibitory road regulations, as the red circle would indicate. They are regulatory, which is why it is in a black-and-white rectangle.

I do like the design, and think that it would be good if they used the circle for both standard and metric signs, just switching out MPH and km/h at the bottom, then getting rid of the words SPEED LIMIT at the top. We can work on the red circle way down the line. Of course, if the US does metricate, just get rid of the standard part of the last sentence.

The Canadian signs are as such to qualify as being bilingual, if I remember correctly.
Dimensional limits signage is very similar in the RotW (Rest of the World), too, using a red circle with in-pointing arrows and the height/width limit (ie, '3,9m') or, if it is a weight limit, with a look identical to the speed limit signage except with the weight limit (ie, '15,0t') inside the red circle.

One could look at them as being 'prohibitory' signs (even though they are technically 'regulatory'), even in the USA, as they say that (whatever) beyond those limits is 'prohibited'.

I like that sign logic, too, and think that the 'blue disc = mandatory' signage should also be adopted here. I especially like the RotW's 'keep right/left' sign - it is far, far, far better than the messy sign now used in the USA.

Mike
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Old April 24th, 2007, 06:29 AM   #255
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Oh yeah, mate! European sign is much more recognisable from larger distance. And much more obvious too.

vs.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 08:48 AM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
Dimensional limits signage is very similar in the RotW (Rest of the World), too, using a red circle with in-pointing arrows and the height/width limit (ie, '3,9m') or, if it is a weight limit, with a look identical to the speed limit signage except with the weight limit (ie, '15,0t') inside the red circle.

One could look at them as being 'prohibitory' signs (even though they are technically 'regulatory'), even in the USA, as they say that (whatever) beyond those limits is 'prohibited'.
Yeah, I agree that it could be seen either way, but then again, you are getting into the funny territory of de facto versus de jure. Many states literally cannot have prohibitory speed limit signs, since they have prima facie speed limits. In Texas, for example, it is not illegal to drive faster than 70 mph on such posted highways if you can prove to the judge that it was reasonable and prudent to do so. The fact that this never happens notwithstanding, for speed limits to be posted as prohibitory would be completely inappropriate.

I'm not as sure about height and weight limits, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were the same logic (it being prohibited internationally to drive vehicles exceeding the limits, while not specifically legally prohibited in the US)
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Old April 24th, 2007, 01:26 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
Oh yeah, mate! European sign is much more recognisable from larger distance. And much more obvious too.

vs.
I like the North American arrow around the median sign...but I think it should be used with an arrow pointing down like the blue sign you're showing. I would use a yellow diamond with a large arrow pointing in the same direction as the European sign. I would place the yellow diamond close to the ground, as well.
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Old April 25th, 2007, 04:55 AM   #258
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Everyone in the world should use the metric system. It makes more sense.
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Old April 25th, 2007, 06:31 AM   #259
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Quote:
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Everyone in the world should use the metric system. It makes more sense.
PSST... that was two pages ago...
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Old April 25th, 2007, 07:00 AM   #260
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LOL it might have been two pages ago but its not something that should be swept under the carpet.

ADCS, you're crazy. It's time the US got with the program and stopped burying its head in the sand on the issue of metric and imperial. You justify the US not adopting it because imperial works, and you're scientists are the only ones needing to use metric SI units?

Newsflash ... everyone else seems to be using it, from primary school students to aeronautical engineers. It is standard and it's crazy to think the US persists with such an archaic measurement system such as imperial.
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Last edited by Avatar; April 25th, 2007 at 09:38 AM.
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