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Old October 27th, 2011, 02:08 PM   #181
Glodenox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
Back to the Antwerp-Brussel line, was it ever considered to extend the tunnel in Antwerp past Berchem? That could have meant a considerable time saving going in and out of Antwerp from the South. Plus it would be extra capacity at a place where it's actually most needed.
That would be hardly feasible due to the line coming from L59 (Ghent - Antwerp). That line goes underneath L25 and L27 a couple of meters before Antwerpen-Berchem. And if you want to have a tunnel underneath that one, you'd have to go underneath the R1 as well (and I don't see any space where any decline in a tunnel is possible there). While I don't think it's technically impossible, it would be *way* too expensive for the 20 seconds you'd gain by not having to slow down as much as they have to nowadays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pietje01 View Post
[...]
There also was once a proposal to have a line over the full length of the E19 motorway between Antwerp and Brussels, the endpoints were to be decided.
[...]
I don't think there ever were any official plans of that. In Antwerp, you'd require one hell of a tunnel in order to reach Antwerp Central Station to reach a high speed line from there. But at least we will soon have a line from Brussels to Mechelen in the median of the E19.

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Old October 27th, 2011, 02:09 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
The SBB themself state that capacity is their biggest concern. And that shortage of capacity go down to the refusal to build new railway lines in anticipation of an increased demand.
My point is that the reason they need more capacity is that they are successfull. So you can't point at capacity problems as a sign of a railway underperforming...
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Old January 8th, 2012, 10:44 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Thermo View Post
The Desiro ML trains are almost ready to enter service. NMBS/SNCB has ordered 305 of these.

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5737296738/
How is their introduction going?
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Old January 8th, 2012, 10:51 PM   #184
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Will these new trains replace the pure pieces of crap of the 1970s currently operating the Liége-Guillemins - Maastricht services?
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Old January 9th, 2012, 12:51 PM   #185
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They will eventually replace them all, and the current sets aren't all from the 1970's, lots of them are even older

Last thing I heard is that the first sets are being put into service before next summer
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Old January 9th, 2012, 01:11 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Will these new trains replace the pure pieces of crap of the 1970s currently operating the Liége-Guillemins - Maastricht services?
Actually those 1970-ies trainsets are some of the most reliably trainsets NMBS has. Hopefully the Desiro ML sets are as reliable.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 01:37 PM   #187
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Actually those 1970-ies trainsets are some of the most reliably trainsets NMBS has. Hopefully the Desiro ML sets are as reliable.
Reliability is not the only thing that counts! Sure an old, crappy train without much embedded electronic systems can operate longer on deferred maintenance (a loved accounting tactic to boost financial statements).

They don't offer modern, basic comforts like doors that open with the touch of a button (not requiring manipulation of a handlers, which is harder on people who are frail or have mobility restrictions on their hands), they are poorly insulated, they don't have airco or even forced ventilation, and lets not start talking of bathrooms, electronic advisory displays etc. etc.

Trainsets should be withdrawn from service after 30 years of service, period. They would be then built in a more "disposable" fashion, meant to last shorter, and become cheaper to buy. Like road vehicles in general.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 03:49 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Reliability is not the only thing that counts! Sure an old, crappy train without much embedded electronic systems can operate longer on deferred maintenance (a loved accounting tactic to boost financial statements).

They don't offer modern, basic comforts like doors that open with the touch of a button (not requiring manipulation of a handlers, which is harder on people who are frail or have mobility restrictions on their hands), they are poorly insulated, they don't have airco or even forced ventilation, and lets not start talking of bathrooms, electronic advisory displays etc. etc.
Proper maintenance and a periodic refresh can do wonders here. It all depends on how competent the railway is. There are SBB trainsets that at 40 years of age look better, and more modern than 15 yo Trenitalia trains...

Quote:
Trainsets should be withdrawn from service after 30 years of service, period. They would be then built in a more "disposable" fashion, meant to last shorter, and become cheaper to buy. Like road vehicles in general.
Again you show how fortunate the world is that you're not involved in railway operation.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 04:03 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Trainsets should be withdrawn from service after 30 years of service, period. They would be then built in a more "disposable" fashion, meant to last shorter, and become cheaper to buy. Like road vehicles in general.
What is the age that an airplane has to be pulled out of service?
There is no such thing, and it would be a waste of capital if you would demolish a perfectly working trainset, just because of the age.

A train should be set aside if the cost of the maintenance (or the upgrades to meet the current standards) is higher than the cost of buying a new one. Simple as that.

This implies also that badly designed trainsets can be scrapped well before 30 years of age.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 05:21 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by Robi_damian View Post
How is their introduction going?
The first ones should enter revenue services sometimes in March.
Drivers training just started. Full homologation has not been granted
yet but enough to start services on a few selected lines.

The line Liege-Maastrich will certainly not be the first one served.
The relationship between SNCB and NS about the service on this line
is certainly not as good as it should be, and before new rolling stock
is introduced, this problem must be addressed first.

Also, in addition to the aspects that Suburbanist mentioned, those new
trainsets are vastly superior in terms of acceleration and maximum speed.
So they will be introduced first where those new performances are the
most demanded, i.e. on the very congested lines that serve Brussels
(Nivelles-Bruxelles-Antwerp to begin with).

They might also be used on the Athus-Meuse ligne (rural line between Dinant
and Arlon in the Ardennes) in order to free up diesel sets that are needed
elsewhere.

This is the first time since very long that SNCB introduces a new rolling
stock entirely dedicated to local trains. For the 40 previous years, local
trains were produced with equipment downgraded from intercity service...
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Old January 9th, 2012, 05:45 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Will these new trains replace the pure pieces of crap of the 1970s currently operating the Liége-Guillemins - Maastricht services?
See my previous reply. Those new sets will replace the 120 EMUs of the
1962 class, those that are still in red livery and are numbered between
151 and 270. The other double EMUs are being refurbished (external paint,
new seats, ventilation, new restrooms, digital displays, new driver's post...)
and will last another 10 years before they are retired. This refurbishment
program is almost complete.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 05:56 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Actually those 1970-ies trainsets are some of the most reliably trainsets NMBS has. Hopefully the Desiro ML sets are as reliable.
They are from 1962.

This makes me wonder whether the trainsets and locomotives currently built
are not simply too complex and too sophisticated, resulting in an over-
sensitivity to the environmental conditions (temperature, humidity, presence
of snow, variation of the catenary voltage, ice on the contact wires,
electromagnetical interference, etc). Trains of the past were completely
immune from those perturbations. Today, it is definitely not the case
anymore. Each hot summer or harsh winter brings us cases of trains stranded
anywhere in the field with hundreds of passengers on board. This is not what
I call progress. A train that can only be used in mild temperatures and with a
perfect power supply is worth nothing.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 10:56 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
This is the first time since very long that SNCB introduces a new rolling
stock entirely dedicated to local trains. For the 40 previous years, local
trains were produced with equipment downgraded from intercity service...
Not that in Belgium there is much of a difference.
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Old January 9th, 2012, 11:01 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
Trains of the past were completely
immune from those perturbations. Today, it is definitely not the case
anymore. Each hot summer or harsh winter brings us cases of trains stranded
anywhere in the field with hundreds of passengers on board. This is not what
I call progress. A train that can only be used in mild temperatures and with a
perfect power supply is worth nothing.
Part of it has to do with the massive amount of electronics we have in trains, which has made them much safer, however a bit sensitive.

A major change, however, has to do with design philosophy. Once, trains (and cars, and house appliances) were "overbuilt" with excessive use of materials and made too durable for their expected lifetime. But it was a time of cheap raw material and cheap industrial costs, so that had less of an impact.

Nowadays, the buyer can specify the operational conditions of a train. You can insulate electronics properly so that trains will operate at -20 or below, under heavy snow and frost conditions, but that will cost more than fitting them to optimal conditions (without performance degradation) only down to -12 and not suitable to heavy frost or powder snow.

It is always a purchase decision.
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Old March 2nd, 2012, 11:13 AM   #195
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Liège-Guillemins Railway Station:

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Old March 2nd, 2012, 06:13 PM   #196
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most beautiful station, evah
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Old March 7th, 2012, 01:04 AM   #197
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First V250 of the NMBS/SNCB

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Old March 7th, 2012, 11:31 AM   #198
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First V250 of the NMBS/SNCB

My condolences.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 01:40 PM   #199
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My condolences.
Why is that? The V250s are finally arriving And that will put the Benelux train to rest for good, that shameful train running on Dutch tracks (only the aberration called IC Liège-Maastricht is worse than the Benelux trains). So we'll have cool stuff from the Belgians running here now

Let's hope the train operates normally and sooner rather than later.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 02:24 PM   #200
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Why is that? The V250s are finally arriving And that will put the Benelux train to rest for good, that shameful train running on Dutch tracks (only the aberration called IC Liège-Maastricht is worse than the Benelux trains).
When the current Benelux started in the 80ies it used stock that was more comfortable than anything the NMBS had in operation. For Dutch IC standards it was normal though. After the refresh of the interiors there was nothing wrong with the trains, and they could have kept on running for some years still.
In fact, the only thing that was "wrong" with it was that it couldn't run on the HSL. Basically NS/NMBS should just have ordered a few extra of NMBS series 18, and 200 kph capable coaches, and used that to start a new Benelux service, integrated in the IC networks of both countries just like the current is.
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