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Old April 10th, 2014, 10:27 AM   #421
Glodenox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
How are passengers counted? The numbers seem quite low. I live in a town of 130000, and our main station has about 250000 passengers a day. If Brussel Centraal has only about 56000 this can only mean that NMBS counts in a very different way from SBB...[...]
I found this explanation on Wikipedia, not 100% whether it's still accurate, but at least it's something:
Quote:
De tellingen worden meestal uitgevoerd in de maand oktober: gedurende 9 opeenvolgende dagen (5 werkdagen en de 2 omliggende weekends) worden dan door het stations- en treinbegeleidingspersoneel visuele tellingen verricht. De methode bestaat erin het aantal in- en uitstappende reizigers te tellen in alle stations en stopplaatsen en dit voor alle treinen van het binnenlands verkeer. Het getal naast het kopje 'weekdag' slaat op het gemiddeld aantal opstappende (dus niet het aantal afstappende) reizigers op een weekdag (maandag, dinsdag, woensdag, donderdag en vrijdag opgeteld gedeeld door vijf), zaterdag en zondag staan apart vermeld.
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The measurements usually take place in October: for 9 subsequent days (5 work days and the two surrounding weekends) personnel in the station and train conductors do visual counts. The method consists of counting the amount of boarding and alighting passengers for all trains of domestic nature. The number for the week day represents the average number of boarding passengers (so not the alighting passengers) on a week day (Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday summed up divided by five), Saturday and Sunday are mentioned separately.
I *think* that the numbers on that map refer to the amount of non-international boarding passengers in a day on average for a week.

I wonder how your number can be so high. I presume everybody entering or leaving the station is counted?
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Old April 10th, 2014, 01:08 PM   #422
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Here it is; the busiest stretch of railway in the Benelux:

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Old April 10th, 2014, 01:40 PM   #423
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Originally Posted by Glodenox View Post
I wonder how your number can be so high. I presume everybody entering or leaving the station is counted?
Actually SBB counts everyone entering or leaving a train... Passenger numbers serve mostly to decide about investment in stations, and there how "busy" a station is matters.
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 01:29 PM   #424
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An overview of the daily train passengers in the Brussels area...

The West and Simonis train stations should shut down.

It was stupid to open them while at the same time new metro line was opened (the line that goes up and down between the Laken/stadium and Midi).

One of the other should have been don (but not both)
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 05:38 PM   #425
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Capellekerk also looks seldom used.
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 06:00 PM   #426
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The West and Simonis train stations should shut down. It was stupid to open them while at the same time new metro line was opened (the line that goes up and down between the Laken/stadium and Midi). One of the other should have been don (but not both)
No. They should run more trains over that line. (And they should develop the area)
These stations have only just been opened. The general idea is that by running suburban trains over that line you free up slots in the Noord Zuid railway. Because of the good interchange possibilities that exist with the metro these trains are a good alternative for people who only take the train in to town to transfer to the metro.
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 06:36 PM   #427
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Capellekerk also looks seldom used.
Kapellekerk was a complete hellhole for many years too. Don't know if It changed since these video.



Here is a music video wich features the area's in and around the station:


Last edited by joshsam; April 23rd, 2014 at 07:05 PM.
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 06:45 PM   #428
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Quote:
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No. They should run more trains over that line. (And they should develop the area)
These stations have only just been opened. The general idea is that by running suburban trains over that line you free up slots in the Noord Zuid railway. Because of the good interchange possibilities that exist with the metro these trains are a good alternative for people who only take the train in to town to transfer to the metro.
That logic makes sense only if the NMBS/SNCB diverts trains away from the central tunnels.

In my opinion the solution to the central tunnel problem is one thing only: expand the Central Station. No, I don't mean destroy Brussels again and widen the station horizontally but I'm talking about vertical expansion (a second and possibly third floor UNDER the current 5 platforms). That is an unavoidable problem. Any other attempt will fail to solve this bottleneck.
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 07:17 PM   #429
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That logic makes sense only if the NMBS/SNCB diverts trains away from the central tunnels.
They're not diverting trains, but they will be adding a lot of trains in the near future. Especially if the NMBS does the right thing and runs locals at least every 15 minutes on the lines to Brussel. But that needs vision, which is a bit lacking...

Quote:
In my opinion the solution to the central tunnel problem is one thing only: expand the Central Station. No, I don't mean destroy Brussels again and widen the station horizontally but I'm talking about vertical expansion (a second and possibly third floor UNDER the current 5 platforms). That is an unavoidable problem. Any other attempt will fail to solve this bottleneck.
Expanding the station in this way will take something like 20-30 years. Better integrating the railways with the metro, and making better use of the ring railway however is something that can be done now.
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Old April 23rd, 2014, 08:24 PM   #430
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Expanding the station in this way will take something like 20-30 years.
Rogier square is under construction since 2005. If NMBS had started to work on Central Station in 2005, we would be halfway complete now (by your 20 year criteria).

One thing is for sure: doing nothing in the tunnel will never solve the tunnel problem. I suspect the future of Central Station will be that it will be downgraded (more and more trains will skip it - Already now the station has been declared "no go zone" for all international trains that used to go there in the past (including the Benelux IC)
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Old April 24th, 2014, 03:45 AM   #431
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....

Last edited by Rail_Serbia; April 24th, 2014 at 03:48 AM. Reason: mistake
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Old April 24th, 2014, 03:47 AM   #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glodenox View Post
An overview of the daily train passengers in the Brussels area. Especially Brussel-Kapellekerk/Bruxelles-Chapelle with its 80 passengers a day stands out in a negative way (the stations with around 80 passengers were still quite new when that data was compiled in 2012):
I think that is without passengers with mouthly tickets, which usualy don't check the tickets.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 06:28 AM   #433
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I think that is without passengers with mouthly tickets, which usualy don't check the tickets.
I don't think so. Monthly tickets do get checked on board, just like regular tickets.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 11:45 AM   #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the Ludovico center View Post
Rogier square is under construction since 2005. If NMBS had started to work on Central Station in 2005, we would be halfway complete now (by your 20 year criteria).

One thing is for sure: doing nothing in the tunnel will never solve the tunnel problem. I suspect the future of Central Station will be that it will be downgraded (more and more trains will skip it - Already now the station has been declared "no go zone" for all international trains that used to go there in the past (including the Benelux IC)
The Benelux train will continue to stop at Central and will additionally call at North as SNCB will integrate the Benelux into Belgian domestic services.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 02:08 PM   #435
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I don't think so. Monthly tickets do get checked on board, just like regular tickets.
But then those figures become abysmal for many stations. An inner-city station with fewer than 1000 passengers a day is basically a mid-forest bus stop, transit-wise.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 02:39 PM   #436
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Those numbers are composed from visual checks by the personnel during a week. They can probably be used to make a comparison between stations, but I think they're far from the truth.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 02:42 PM   #437
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But then those figures become abysmal for many stations. An inner-city station with fewer than 1000 passengers a day is basically a mid-forest bus stop, transit-wise.
That's why I wonder what they were actually counting. I boarded a train daily for several years at Kapellekerk, and my train alone already had more than 80 boarders.
There's a couple of schools nearby, although I doubt that the King's children take the train to get there...
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Old April 24th, 2014, 02:49 PM   #438
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Do they have rehabilitation plans for stations Schaerbeek, Buda and Machelen?

They all look worn-down and station Buda looks to be on advanced decay around it.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 03:31 PM   #439
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Do they have rehabilitation plans for stations Schaerbeek, Buda and Machelen?

They all look worn-down and station Buda looks to be on advanced decay around it.
None that I know of. Machelen isn't even visible on their plans. Buda hardly has any passengers and deserves to be closed in my opinion. Schaarbeek gets the big train museum they're building just next to the station building - but the station itself: haven't heard anything about it.
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Old April 25th, 2014, 01:33 AM   #440
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Belgium has some nice stations, but also a bunch of old, worn down stations that would blend in well in the Soviet Union. Two examples that come to mind are Brussels North (the platforms and corridor at least) and Antwerpen Luchtbal.

Stations that I really like are Antwerp Central and Liège-Guillemins.

Other stations are "okay" but could do with a large refurbishment, e.g. Brussels South and Antwerpen Berchem. It doesn't have to be big, but simple things such as some fresh paint, new floor tiles, improved lighting, et cetera.
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