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Old October 27th, 2015, 12:30 AM   #601
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perfect for cold winter evenings
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Old December 19th, 2015, 11:20 AM   #602
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SNCB/NMBS will pay 1,3 billion € for 445 double decker cars (90 trains) to a consortium of Bombardier/Alstom. The new M7 trains will be delivered between September 2018 and December 2021. Will have a maximum speed of 200 km/h and will have ECTS 2. Most cars will be manufactured in Bombardier factory of Brugge, while 90 cars will be manufactured in Valencinnes plant of Alstom in France.

http://www.rtbf.be/info/article/detail?id=9168221
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Old December 19th, 2015, 01:07 PM   #603
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It's an order for the first patch of 445 double decker cars (of a total of 1,362 cars).













Quote:
Bombardier - Alstom Consortium to Provide up to 1,362 Double Deck Train Cars to Belgian National Railways (SNCB-NMBS)

18/12/2015

Bombardier Transportation - Alstom consortium, signed a framework contract to supply up to 1,362 M7 double deck cars to the Belgian National Railways (SNCB-NMBS). The total order is valued at 3.3 billion euro ($3.6 billion US). Bombardier’s part is worth around 2.1 billion euro ($2.3 billion US) while Alstom’s share is worth 1.2 billion euro ($1.3 billion US).


The first firm order signed today includes the design and manufacturing of 445 cars and is valued at approximately 1.3 billion euro ($1.4 billion US). Bombardier’s share is valued at 787 million euro ($853 million US) while Alstom’s share is valued at 471 million euro ($511 million US). Deliveries for this first order will take place between September 2018 and 2021. The frame contract includes options for up to 917 additional cars.

Bombardier’s site in Bruges (Belgium), will provide 65 multifunctional steering cars and 290 trailer cars. Alstom will design and build 90 motorized cab cars in its Valenciennes site (France) with the support of its electrical and signalling centre of excellence based in Charleroi (Belgium). Alstom will also develop and produce the ETCS level 2 system to equip the total fleet.

Laurent Troger, President, Bombardier Transportation, said, “This framework contract for almost 1,400 double deck coaches will provide the people of Belgium with the highest standard of modern mobility solutions. It also confirms SNCB-NMBS’ trust in Bombardier’s products and technology, further strengthening our long term partnership”.

“This order clearly reflects the strong confidence the SNCB-NMBS has in our double-deck trains and the level of comfort they offer. It is also an indication that the vehicles are really appreciated by the passengers and represent the ideal answer to increasing ridership”, said Andreas Knitter, Senior Vice-President Alstom Europe.

These new trains will increase the overall capacity on SNCB-NMBS’ network by adding an additional 145,000 seats. The trains will be able to run at speeds of up to 200km/h and will operate on all Belgian mainlines, cross border with the Netherlands and Luxembourg, including on some high speed lines. The M7 concept is based on the very successful and highly reliable M6 double deck cars, of which 492 were delivered by the same Bombardier - Alstom consortium. The completely redesigned interior of both first and second class cars was validated by the customer after consulting over 200 representatives from different user groups. The new interior and an improved passenger information system will provide travellers with enhanced passenger comfort while the multifunctional steering cars will feature wheelchair access and space for bicycles.

The M7 cars are fully flexible. They can be operated either as M7 EMU’s [1] or as loco-hauled trains composed of both M7 and existing M6 double deck cars. A predictive train diagnostic system will improve preventive maintenance activities and reduce the life cycle costs. These extra features turn this new generation double deck trains into one of the most cost-effective solutions for our customer.
http://www.alstom.com/press-centre/2...ays-sncb-nmbs/
This will be the first (new) type of NMBS that will also be able to operate on the Dutch and Luxembourg railway system. Probably good for the Benelux train.
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Last edited by Thermo; December 19th, 2015 at 01:42 PM.
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Old December 19th, 2015, 02:01 PM   #604
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However, a scandal began. It seems the doors are not at 760 mm, and even the cars accessible for rolling chairs don't permit at level boarding. It seems this is because they tried to maximize the number of passenger seats.
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Old December 21st, 2015, 09:02 PM   #605
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And also there will be NO wifi installed on those new trains (the spoksman said we'll consider do that at some point in the future after we have the trains

Why are Belgians determined to be extremely backward when it comes to WIFI availability? It's unbelievable.
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Old December 21st, 2015, 09:15 PM   #606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermo View Post
This will be the first (new) type of NMBS that will also be able to operate on the Dutch and Luxembourg railway system. Probably good for the Benelux train.
Almost all Belgian rolling stock can operate till Luxemburg.
HLE 13 series can operate on the whole CFL network.
All series of passenger cars are authorized.

In the Netherlands, many series are authorized to operate on the border
sections under half voltage. Other operations require specific bivoltage locos
that exist on the Belgian roster since the 1960s.

So I do not understand what you mean here...
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Old December 21st, 2015, 09:17 PM   #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klausenburg View Post
However, a scandal began. It seems the doors are not at 760 mm, and even the cars accessible for rolling chairs don't permit at level boarding. It seems this is because they tried to maximize the number of passenger seats.
Well there are four different platform heights on the Belgian network. So you
need to get to compromises anyway.
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Old December 21st, 2015, 09:19 PM   #608
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Our current double deck trains are not allowed and Thermo was refering to the benelux train that would have been replaced by Fyra... now could be by this M7 (can go on highspeed line)
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Old December 21st, 2015, 09:20 PM   #609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
Well there are four different platform heights on the Belgian network. So you
need to get to compromises anyway.
Yes, but the wheel chair accessible doors will be at 685 mm. That's not helpful for any platform height existent in Belgium, right ?
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Old December 22nd, 2015, 01:06 AM   #610
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M7 will not be working services towards Amsterdam. They are intended for "short cross-border operation", which means Maastricht and/or Roosendaal.

Maybe we'll ever see them working services towards Breda, but that'll only happen if NS and SNCB work out a deal to speed up the Benelux train and to have an additional train running between Antwerpen and the Netherlands.
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Old December 22nd, 2015, 09:06 AM   #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meurisse View Post
Our current double deck trains are not allowed and Thermo was refering to the benelux train that would have been replaced by Fyra... now could be by this M7 (can go on highspeed line)
M6 double deckers ARE allowed to Luxemburg. See pictures of this on
http://www.rail.lu/materiel/sncbm6.html
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Old December 22nd, 2015, 09:10 AM   #612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klausenburg View Post
Yes, but the wheel chair accessible doors will be at 685 mm. That's not helpful for any platform height existent in Belgium, right ?
Yes but this means that with some additional hardware, both 55 and 76 cm
platforms can be served. If it was level with one of the two, the difference
of height with the other would have made it much more difficult to reach.
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Old December 22nd, 2015, 09:13 AM   #613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
M7 will not be working services towards Amsterdam. They are intended for "short cross-border operation", which means Maastricht and/or Roosendaal.
And most probably also, Luxemburg (from both Liège and Namur) and Lille.
Plus Maubeuge and Valenciennes if those relations are ever restarted.
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Old December 22nd, 2015, 10:52 AM   #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
Well there are four different platform heights on the Belgian network.
Which heights do you mean? I can only find references to about 280mm, 550mm and 760mm. Is Belgium intending to standardise on a single height? Door placement on these M7 double deckers, with their doors over the bogies suggests 760mm (with 550mm doors on the lower floor only make more sense).
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Old December 22nd, 2015, 03:20 PM   #615
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280 mm will disappear.
550 mm and 760 mm will both stay.
And in addition, there is a fourth one, around 1000 mm, I do not know the exact value, which I think is supposed to disappear too. It was introduced in
1935 when Antwerpen-Brussels was electrified; the intention was to raise all
platforms to that level but it quickly revealed far too expensive and the plan was dropped. Today it only exists on Brussels-Antwerp and Brussels-Charleroi.
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Old December 22nd, 2015, 09:11 PM   #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
And in addition, there is a fourth one, around 1000 mm, I do not know the exact value, which I think is supposed to disappear too.
That's actually to bad. 1000mm would have been an ideal height to enable level boarding over the bogies of most trains and only one step for single deck high speed trains which usually have floor heights around 1250mm to 1300mm.
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Old January 29th, 2016, 01:38 AM   #617
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Some pictures from a quick trip from Brussels to Antwerp:


1881 Brussels Airport 29 December 2015


408 Antwerp Berchem 29 December 2015


478 Antwerp Berchem 29 December 2015


807 Antwerp Berchem 29 December 2015


2748 Antwerp Berchem 29 December 2015


921 Antwerp Berchem 29 December 2015


2830 Antwerp Berchem 29 December 2015


4192 Antwerp Berchem 29 December 2015


423 Antwerp Berchem 29 December 2015


08567 Antwerp Centraal 29 December 2015

More here:
https://transportsceneireland.smugmu...December-2015/
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Old March 27th, 2016, 05:25 PM   #618
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Saw some interesting pics on the internet of the ex SNCB 1203 in the Czech Republic.
Link
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Old April 2nd, 2016, 04:29 AM   #619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
Almost all Belgian rolling stock can operate till Luxemburg.
HLE 13 series can operate on the whole CFL network.
All series of passenger cars are authorized.

In the Netherlands, many series are authorized to operate on the border
sections under half voltage. Other operations require specific bivoltage locos
that exist on the Belgian roster since the 1960s.

So I do not understand what you mean here...
.
.
.
I think the point here is they will be the first to be able to run from Amsterdam to Brussels and Luxembourg without changing locos. True, the Classes 15, 16, and 18 could do this back in the 60's but there weren't enough of them to run an hourly service over the entire route. Later Class 11's were DC only while classes 12 and 13 could not operate under full power in Holland. Today's Classes 18 and 19 don't seem to be able to operate with full power in Holland nor are they equipped with Dutch signaling to my knowledge.
.
.
.
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Old April 2nd, 2016, 04:40 AM   #620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
M6 double deckers ARE allowed to Luxemburg. See pictures of this on
http://www.rail.lu/materiel/sncbm6.html
Trains of M6 stock on Brussels-Luxembourg are used especially on Friday and Sunday evenings because of the student traffic within Belgium from/to the universities in Louvain-la-Neuve and Brussels.

I wonder when they will finally connect Leuven-la Neuve to Line 161 on the south end? Trains from Brussels would go to Ottignies, Louvain-la-Neuve and rejoin Line 161 just north of Mont-Saint-Guibert. The running time would be a few minutes longer but people wouldn't have to change trains at Ottignies for the short trip to Louvain-la-Neuve.
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