daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 6th, 2016, 11:33 AM   #621
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger-Wyger View Post
.
Today's Classes 18 and 19 don't seem to be able to operate with full power in Holland nor are they equipped with Dutch signaling to my knowledge.
SNCB Class 18 can run under 1.5 kV, they have specifically been ordered for that. They lack Dutch signalling but will be equipped with ERTMS, which will also be rolled out on the Dutch network in the years to come.

So, theoretically, in a few years from now it is possible to see an HLE 18 pulling the Beneluxtrein.
__________________
We are shaping the future

mrsmartman liked this post
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 6th, 2016, 01:48 PM   #622
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,158
Likes (Received): 274

The currently plans envision ERTMS L2 on the conventional tracks in the Randstad at around 2028, so that will be a while. And delays are not uncommon with such major projects, given that the ministry of transport is looking for ways to reduce the cost of the ERTMS roll out.
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2016, 02:34 PM   #623
MarcVD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Brussels
Posts: 1,069
Likes (Received): 192

As far as I known, HLE 18 can technically run under 1.5 kV indeed, but it has never been
validated, and as far as I know there are no plans to do it. I do not think they were
ordered with that specific feature, but rather that it comes as a free option because of
the way the loco is engineered.
MarcVD no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2016, 08:45 PM   #624
Dorfmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 33
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
As far as I known, HLE 18 can technically run under 1.5 kV indeed, but it has never been
validated, and as far as I know there are no plans to do it. I do not think they were
ordered with that specific feature, but rather that it comes as a free option because of
the way the loco is engineered.
HLE18/19 can indeed run under 1,5Kv DC but with limited power (aroung 2,6Kw available) and they aren't fitted with ATB which is manadatory for new trains to run in Netherlands.

So with no ETCS and no ATB installed; you can forget - for the time being - seeing a HLE18/19 in the Netherlands.
Dorfmeister no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2016, 01:57 PM   #625
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,158
Likes (Received): 274

Wasn't it the intention to have a 3 kV DC/25 kV AC capable subseries of the NS ICNG in the future, so it could be used both on the HSL and for the Benelux service?
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2016, 10:25 AM   #626
MarcVD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Brussels
Posts: 1,069
Likes (Received): 192

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
Wasn't it the intention to have a 3 kV DC/25 kV AC capable subseries of the NS ICNG in the future, so it could be used both on the HSL and for the Benelux service?
That would make sense... and could explain why NS doesn't want to invest
money in TRAXX-compatible driving cabs. When are those ICNG supposed to
show up ? Any idea of the chosen design already ?
MarcVD no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2016, 01:38 PM   #627
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,158
Likes (Received): 274

First delivery is scheduled for 2020, first use in service for 2021.
They're at the very start of the tender process. Besides this information the only other publicly available information is that Siemens, Alstom, Bombardier and Stadler have shown interest to build these trains.
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2016, 01:43 PM   #628
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,535
Likes (Received): 21242

Have the attacks on Zaventem airport damaged the train station and/or the tunnels leading to it?
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2016, 01:53 PM   #629
Puinkabouter
killed Laura Palmer
 
Puinkabouter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: G(h)ent
Posts: 10,405
Likes (Received): 2320

No, they haven't.
__________________
www.dewebsitevanpuinkabouter.be
Puinkabouter no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2016, 01:04 AM   #630
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

NS has invested quite a lot of money in their existing ICR BDs driving coaches to have them work with the Traxx locomotives, but they set a hard deadline for when the interface should be stable enough. As this deadline was not met, the project has been abandoned altogether.

A "Belgium capable" version of ICNG is envisaged as a potential follow-on order, the first batch of trains (which will enter service in 2021) will only be equipped for running in the Netherlands.

The 1.5 kV capabilities of HLE 18/19 were a deliberate choice by SNCB, as they want to be able to use the locomotives to haul trains just across the border (e.g. to Maastricht). If SNCB did not want this, they wouldn't have ordered the locos with this configuration. To compare: the MS08 (Desiro ML) has not been equipped for 1.5 kV operation, as a result of this the trains simply shut down when detecting 1.5 kV.
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2016, 10:38 AM   #631
MarcVD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Brussels
Posts: 1,069
Likes (Received): 192

As do any other 3kv equipment. RTN (relais de tension nulle) will detect insufficient tension and shut the train down. But there is a switch to bypass this for when trains go to NS stations like Rosendaal or Maastricht. As other equipment for stop trains (AM66 to 73 or 75) will be phased out, desiro AMs must be able to do that too.

Envoyé de mon GT-I9505 en utilisant Tapatalk
MarcVD no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2016, 03:22 PM   #632
nathanmarcus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 12
Likes (Received): 13

Latest News First passenger trains begin service on new Brussels railway tunnel

Belgian rail engineering firm TUC Rail has announced the start of first passenger trains through the new Schuman-Josaphat railway tunnel in Brussels.

TUC RAIL has worked on the construction project since 2008, and the engineering and project management office carried out the studies, management and follow-up for the scheme. Under the project, approximately 100 security cameras, a fire detection system and new emergency exits have been installed at the station.
nathanmarcus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 12th, 2016, 09:42 AM   #633
MarcVD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Brussels
Posts: 1,069
Likes (Received): 192

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanmarcus View Post
Latest News First passenger trains begin service on new Brussels railway tunnel
It started two weeks ago already. On a very limited mode because it was
school holidays, and because of the limitations caused by the security
measures following the terrorist attacks.

Now we have the normal configuration, with two hourly IC trains, two S trains,
and two other S trains only during peak times. So 4 to 6 trains per hour per
direction.

I will give it a try next Thursday.
MarcVD no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 6th, 2016, 05:36 AM   #634
StuZealand
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Palmerston North
Posts: 234
Likes (Received): 111

Quote:
Three people were killed and about 40 others were injured as a result of a train collision in Belgium.

Belgian media are reporting that three people were killed and about 40 others were injured as a result of a train collision.

According to RTBF state broadcasting, a passenger train struck a freight train in eastern Liege province in Hermalle-sous-Huy.

Belgian media quoted the Mayor of the commune of Saint-Georges-sur-Meuse, Francis Dejon, as saying the collision had been "very violent".

The mayor said three people were killed and about 40 had been hurt, but added that those numbers could change.

Survivors were taken to a local sports centre, where they were being offered psychological counselling.

"The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 2 characters."

WTF?
StuZealand no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 6th, 2016, 08:58 AM   #635
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,158
Likes (Received): 274

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuZealand View Post
"The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 2 characters."

WTF?
A quote probably doesn't count for message length. So a message containing only a quote without any additional text is zero characters long.

On topic: Wow, that's third major accident since 2010, two of which have been train collisions caused by trains getting on the wrong tracks.
I'm very interested in the cause, once they identify it. Except for coupling/decoupling at low speeds two trains on the same track just shouldn't be possible.
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 6th, 2016, 09:46 AM   #636
MarcVD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Brussels
Posts: 1,069
Likes (Received): 192

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
A quote probably doesn't count for message length. So a message containing only a quote without any additional text is zero characters long.

On topic: Wow, that's third major accident since 2010, two of which have been train collisions caused by trains getting on the wrong tracks.
I'm very interested in the cause, once they identify it. Except for coupling/decoupling at low speeds two trains on the same track just shouldn't be possible.
Ok, I'll tell what I know, but very little is available for the moment.
A freight train was standing still on the main line, waiting for a signal to open.
This train was quite heavy, carrying quarry products.
A passenger train, IC Mouscron-Tournai-Mons-Charleroi-Namur-Liège-Liers, hit
that freight train from the rear. Track speed at that place is 120 km/h (it's a
valley line, following the Meuse river, quite curvy) and the apparent speed of
collision is around 90 km/h. A that speed against a train carrying stone, it's
like hitting a wall, large damages are unavoidable...
Train composition is 2 x AM96 (if I have interpreted correctly the very few
available pictures of the scene; but it matches the stock normally used on this
line). As far as I know all this stock is equipped with the new TBL1+ signaling
system.
So it looks like the passenger train entered the section with a clear signal and
braked at the last moment.
Front carriage entirely destroyed, second one a bit less, both tipped over. The
rest of the train apparently remained upright.
3 casualties, among them the train driver...
There was an incident with the signaling system a few hours before the
accident, a lightning hit a cabin with lineside equipment. Traffic was restored
after damages were repaired, but may be signal inspectors missed something.
This is being explored as a possible root cause but no evidence has been found
to support this till now.
MarcVD no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 7th, 2016, 01:32 AM   #637
Nexis
Dark Wolf
 
Nexis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Along the Rails of North Jersey..
Posts: 15,688
Likes (Received): 17037

__________________
My FLICKR Page < 54,100+ Photos of Urban Renewal , Infrastructure , Food and Nature in the Northeastern US
Visit the Reorganized New York City Section
My Photography Website
Visit the New Jersey Section
Nexis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 7th, 2016, 10:21 AM   #638
Glodenox
Registered User
 
Glodenox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zemst, BE
Posts: 1,794
Likes (Received): 655

As far as I'm aware, the train is indeed equipped with TBL1+, but that section of track isn't. Only the signs around switches are equipped with TBL1+ as they are a priority to secure, all the other sections seem to still be equipped with just Memor/Crocodile (note: not sure if I can fully trust my source, but it seems reasonable).

As Memor is only an aid to remember the double yellow lights and will not do anything when a train passes red, it could be a driver error. But it could also be a weird signal failure, suicide, sabotage, train detection failure, an uncaught traffic center error, brake failure, ... Long story short: we'll have to await the investigation.
__________________
Copyright remains mine for all images I post that are hosted at tomputtemans.com, unless captioned otherwise.
Glodenox no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 7th, 2016, 01:14 PM   #639
MarcVD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Brussels
Posts: 1,069
Likes (Received): 192

All SNCB officials + politicians in charge of the railways say that TBL1+ deployment is complete, 99,9% of the network is equipped (the remaining 0,1% will not be equipped).
Therefore I assume that all signals along a line as busy as line 125 would be equipped, even if they are only block signals, and not protecting switches.
MarcVD no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 7th, 2016, 02:10 PM   #640
Glodenox
Registered User
 
Glodenox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zemst, BE
Posts: 1,794
Likes (Received): 655

Hmm, while I suspect the same, I'm not yet completely convinced. On their site they say they've applied TBL1+ to the whole network since the end of 2015, but I'm not sure of what they call 'the whole network'.

For example: Infrabel also mentions 99.9% 'efficiency coverage' on their site (might be an outdated page though), which is not the same as just 'coverage'. I'm not completely sure the efficiency coverage includes block signals. I haven't heard any confirmation that TBL1+ was active at the signal that should have stopped the train, so we'll just have to await the official report for more information (which will take quite a while).
__________________
Copyright remains mine for all images I post that are hosted at tomputtemans.com, unless captioned otherwise.
Glodenox no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
belgium, liège, tgv

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium