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Old May 20th, 2005, 07:04 PM   #41
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what ground zero needs is Twins and slenderness. Both are not there with Freedom Tower.

Rebuilding te towers is no option (even though I would love to see them, but they're gone... )

So, this is the best thing to do:

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Old May 20th, 2005, 07:30 PM   #42
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^ That design has the appearance that it's going to topple over any moment of its own accord!
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Old May 20th, 2005, 07:55 PM   #43
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I agree Fosters plan is the way to go!

I just thought of something (obvious?) The horizontal window design of Trumps WTC vs. the vertical of the former is probably in deference to the former so that they can easily be differentiated from them in long distance photographs. So looking at a skyline shot you can tell what pair of buildings you are looking at.

Though wouldn't it be a traumatizing thing for many people who worked in the former WTC to work in the virtually identical new ones... directly overlooking the footprints of the former? There were concerns that any new building would be hard-pressed to reach full occupancy, and I'll bet that it would be especially acute problem for this proposal.
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Old May 20th, 2005, 08:00 PM   #44
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i think why foster lost was because he had that hint of megalomania when he stepped into the WTC fray. Fresh from HKIA, Foster could only be perceived as raring for this yet another world's greatest development. Some would have thus wondered if 'healing' was on his mind as much as the other competitors'.

But Libeskind emerged with all the mien of a classic new york city underdog. His design brief came replete with stories of first views of New York onboard a refugee ferry. His reputation of having 'done justice' to the greatest atrocity in Nazi Europe with the Jewish Holocaust Museum in Berlin definitely worked to his advantage. If anyone could lay the troubled souls of 9/11 to rest it would be Libeskind. And so, the underdog won.

"Shaft of Light" is the best part of Libeskind's design; however nobody likes the idea of vacant upper floors that suggest mere record reaching tactics, and the geometry of his tower doesn't conduct very good dialogue with the vernacular of Lower Manhattan. Foster's tower geometry is dynamic, uplifting and shows no diffidence to the extant styles of extravagance thronging the skyline. So maybe what would be perfect would be a combination of Foster's 2 towers and Libeskind's details of memorial making. The two towers gashed where the shaft of light would pierce? The two towers rising from a sculptural edifice containing yawning architectural spaces of remembrance?
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Old May 20th, 2005, 08:05 PM   #45
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Building such similar designs is a step back architecturally, a shame.
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Old May 20th, 2005, 08:18 PM   #46
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Ugly...
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Old May 20th, 2005, 08:41 PM   #47
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This is my very first post at the SkyscraperCity Forums, so I want to make it a good one...

Unless you have lived in or around New York City, were connected in any way to the tragedy (locally, nationally or abroad) or affected by all that has gone on here since then, I believe that people who aren't should not tell us what is most appropriate for Ground Zero. While this directly affects this city the most and is especially a national tragedy, yes it does affect the international community. However, what belongs there is what should ultimately be what New Yorkers believe, not those from other countries.

While some of you want to convince us that New Yorkers should completely move on from what has been a lot more than just a pair of skyscrapers that stood in Lower Manhattan. I'm sorry, we won't be able to move on. We cannot forget. The terrorist attacks on New York City will be a part of us forever. Words cannot describe enough the feelings we have for the barbarians that tried to forever destroy a part of this city, a true icon. I don't care what the LMDC tries to replace it with, the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center are irreplacable. If they weren't such a icon for New York and what ended up as a financial symbol for this country, Al Queda would not have taken them down in the most horrifying way imaginable.

Another thing... this was a very public endorsement of Kenneth Gardner and Herbert Belton's proposal, not Trump's own plan. Gardner and Belton badly needed someone of Trump's stature to get the proposal the media exposure for everyone to see. This idea had been supressed for far too long by the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation from getting any attention and consideration whatsoever. Now, this proposal is finally out in the open and the timing of this being done was perfect for those who support it.

To answer anyone's question as to where I stand with what I want for Ground Zero, yes... 110% behind rebuilding the Twin Towers. However, one condition must be considered first and foremost… a fitting memorial as a part of the master plan. While the new Twin Towers idea is worth much consideration for its selection, it can only be an element of such a plan that is a part of a symbolic tribute (or restored icon) to all New Yorkers and Americans that in any way were affected by the tragedy, not solely as a commercial real estate element to this site.

While I have mixed general views of Mr. Trump and whether or not this is for his own publicity, love or hate him, he at least gives the impression he's thinking for the people on backing the Gardner/Belton proposal. Problem for him is that he has no say as to what the final plan is decided upon for Ground Zero. The majority of people that have been a part of this entire process during the last 3½ years (victims' families included) would have to publicly endorse such a plan to persuade New York State governor George Pataki, New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg, site leaseholder Larry Silverstein and the LMDC what grand site plan they really want.

Whether this proposal ever gets considered or is miraculously chosen with some site plan changes that is fitting for everyone, it's anyone's guess. The odds are stacked high against it ever happening, but at least this is now a possibility and not anyone's belief as "never going to happen".

Last edited by BigAppleSunset; May 20th, 2005 at 09:10 PM.
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Old May 20th, 2005, 09:09 PM   #48
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I like Trumps idea...this other stuff will make NYC look hongkongish.
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Old May 20th, 2005, 09:13 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justadude
^ That design has the appearance that it's going to topple over any moment of its own accord!
Exactly, that's my problem with the Foster design. The towers aesthetically are nice to look at, very interesting to say the least, from different angles they have different appearances and all. Proportionally however, the towers are a mess and it doesn't mesh in with the skyline in terms of pure soaring as the Towers did. They look fragile as they rise, as if they were about to collapse, they are too slim at the edges, they would need modifications before actually built, such as straightening them up as one major point.

Another drawback to the Foster plan is that it contained 20 acres of park/memorial space, which is way too much.

Foster's design looked good from some angles, but just take a look at these two...





In this image they seem as if they are going to collapse:



Then look at more of a straightened out angle, very impressive:



For those who don't know why Foster lost, he was specificially asked NOT to submit the 98 floor proposed twin towers plan that he did, they told him to modify his plan and make them shorter but Foster refused.

Other than rebuilding the Twin Towers, Foster's plan has to be the most impressive in terms of magnitude and restoring the skyline.

BTW, BigAppleSunset welcome to the forums! I share similar feelings. It's very hard to judge the WTC Towers if you haven't experienced, visited, saw, or grew up around them.
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Old May 20th, 2005, 09:15 PM   #50
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It would be nice to have the height as the original with additonal height such as a crown like Bank of America in Charlotte on both towers of course or something other than a flat top and boxy design which one can find in any city everywhere. If freedom tower design is built I will be very very upset and vomit excessivly for the next decade.
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Old May 20th, 2005, 09:38 PM   #51
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what do everyone wants? a new TT II or the ugly Freedom tower? that's the only choice for now.

i have send Donald Trump AND G. Pataki a post-message, with a link of this site to see how much people the twins wants back.

i come from the Netherlands, so it was very expensive to send a letter by postmail.
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Old May 20th, 2005, 09:42 PM   #52
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If they're going to rebuild the towers they should jazz them up IMO. I like Trump's idea the most so far but not because it's particularly dazzling or anything. Mostly I like it because it restores the skyline but it doesn't do it justice. The original Freedom Tower design wasn't really that bad if it had had a few modifications (such as floors going right to the top) but that's just my opinion again. I prefer the tapered look in skyscrapers or something with intricate massing. Trump's vision is hardly original in any way (I think that's a given) but it does satisfy the need to restore the skyline. Perhaps glass cladding or spires or something on top would assist in making it more of a monument.
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Old May 20th, 2005, 09:54 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LooselogInThePeg
If they're going to rebuild the towers they should jazz them up IMO. I like Trump's idea the most so far but not because it's particularly dazzling or anything. Mostly I like it because it restores the skyline but it doesn't do it justice. The original Freedom Tower design wasn't really that bad if it had had a few modifications (such as floors going right to the top) but that's just my opinion again. I prefer the tapered look in skyscrapers or something with intricate massing. Trump's vision is hardly original in any way (I think that's a given) but it does satisfy the need to restore the skyline. Perhaps glass cladding or spires or something on top would assist in making it more of a monument.
^
Agree, spries or tapered.
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Old May 20th, 2005, 10:06 PM   #54
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Yes. Looks so much nicer. Freedom Tower is a major disappointment for me. They have to redesign it, right? Why not this?
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Old May 21st, 2005, 12:18 AM   #55
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THIS IS WHAT I CALL RESTORING THE SKYLINE

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Old May 21st, 2005, 12:40 AM   #56
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I like this better than the freedom tower, but a park is better than new towers where the orginal WTC stood
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Old May 21st, 2005, 06:11 AM   #57
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http://216.71.115.221/wtc/pix/pixright.htm

In that pic, it almost seems like the towers have balconies, hence the stronger horizontal lines. Is that structural reinforcement, or do the horizontal lines serve a different purpose?
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Old May 21st, 2005, 01:41 PM   #58
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if they're going to choose another design...........
i think they should choose foster's.........
but the WTC 2 will show the world that NY is stronger than ever...........
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Old May 21st, 2005, 01:52 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffin
http://216.71.115.221/wtc/pix/pixright.htm

In that pic, it almost seems like the towers have balconies, hence the stronger horizontal lines. Is that structural reinforcement, or do the horizontal lines serve a different purpose?
i think it's structural reinforcement. why they make balconies as they are office towers...
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Old May 21st, 2005, 01:53 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New York Yankee
what do everyone wants? a new TT II or the ugly Freedom tower? that's the only choice for now.

i have send Donald Trump AND G. Pataki a post-message, with a link of this site to see how much people the twins wants back.
We want twins, the question is are these the twins we want... these are a poor imitation of the oringals. They destroy the original design with fussy horizontal detailing and redundant looking design that solidifies the feeling of the buildings.

The verticality of the original is what made the grand - these fall far short in that regard.
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