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Old May 24th, 2005, 10:37 PM   #101
Archiconnoisseur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justadude
That's just plain tasteless.
And people posting that the terrorists did New Yorkers a favor by destroying the WTC aren't?

I'd wager 10:1 that the majority of posters saying the U.S. shouldn't rebuild the twin are foreigners, not Americans, or at the very least are Americans who have not been here for more than a generation.

Soon after 9/11, supertalls sprang up all over the world in places like Shanghai, Hong Kong, and <gasp> Muslim Dubai. So much for the people-won't-go-back-into-tall-buildings argument. The last thing I want to see at Ground Zero is a memorial to Islamic fanaticism. We should completely erase from the skyline any sign that 9/11 took place, and the best way to do that is to rebuild the twins. It's bad enough that there will be extensive memorials to the atrocity at ground level, but I'm horrified at the thought of memorializing Islamofascism with huge building-sized abstractions.

Abraham Lincoln saved our country and got a dinky little memorial in D.C. George Washington, the father of our country, took the oath of office in Federal Hall, but you'd be hard pressed to identify the exact spot from a few blocks away. A bunch of psychopathic, backstabbing foreigners murdered several thousand people in cold blood and will get a whole complex of ginormous abstract towers to memorialize their act. It's sickening if you ask me.

Last edited by Archiconnoisseur; May 24th, 2005 at 10:53 PM.
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Old May 24th, 2005, 10:45 PM   #102
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Yes, definitely rebuild them!!!!!!!! Freedom tower quite frankly sucks monkey gonads.

While Trump's design is most certainly not perfect, there can be several modifications made to make it so. First of all, keep the original window design of the first WTC. Next, add different colored glass to help differentiate it from the old WTC. Thirdly, at the top it should spread slightly out. Floors get larger as you get up instead of smaller, but not too much larger, just a slight effect, similar to Charlotte's Hearst Tower. This should help distinguish it from the old WTC while still having many similar characteristics.

The terrorists can put that in their pipe and smoke it.
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Old May 24th, 2005, 11:41 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm
Bin Laden's hiding in a cave somewhere alright... laughing and laughing and laughing...
And now the anti-Americans come out of the woodwork. They don't want to see the twins rebuilt because that would destroy their twisted sense of "accomplishment" (i.e., that their heroes socked it to the Americans by destroying the WTC).

As for all the anti-Bush nonsense, the U.S. economy is currently growing faster than that of any other G7 nation. All 57 Muslim countries still have a combined GDP ($1.5 trillion) the size of France. Our 5.2% unemployment rate makes Germans weep.
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Old May 25th, 2005, 02:06 AM   #104
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After studying architecture at the University of Oregon under some very bright people, I have to say that the freedom tower design was nothing but a gimmick.

1. Ever since 1937 modern skyscrapers have mostly been large glass boxes, this would be a twisting of a glass box, nothing special.

2. How does a twisting glass spire have anything to do with the original twin towers? It fails to connect to the WTC Twin Towers in any way, and NY citizens are extremely connected to the original buildings. They meant a great deal to the people living in NY and all of the US.

3. What does a 1,776ft structure ask? "HIT ME!". It would be the worlds largest target for terrorism.

4. Would you want to work in a glass tower? Me either. It is a skeleton indeed.
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Old May 25th, 2005, 03:08 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archiconnoisseur
And now the anti-Americans come out of the woodwork. They don't want to see the twins rebuilt because that would destroy their twisted sense of "accomplishment" (i.e., that their heroes socked it to the Americans by destroying the WTC).

As for all the anti-Bush nonsense, the U.S. economy is currently growing faster than that of any other G7 nation. All 57 Muslim countries still have a combined GDP ($1.5 trillion) the size of France. Our 5.2% unemployment rate makes Germans weep.
I'll let you in on a little secret... I AM AMERICAN!

But like half my country, I'm ready to jump ship on the U.S. because I'm sick and tired of being defined abroad by my "religious" retarded right-wing government. Actually, I'm only doing them a favor by calling them religious. Neo-Evangelicals are more of a cult who manipulate Christianity and use it as a tool of discrimination and hatred... sadly, I'm finding it difficult to distinguish them from the likes of Al Qaeda.

And I could not be happier that the U.S. is starting to lose major influence around the world to the likes of the European Union, China, India and Brazil. I believe it takes more than one "superpower" to keep things in balance.

And I think the idea of re-building the twins for spite like some people want is a waste. Because no one's going to want to work in them, and most importantly, terrorists wouldn't get all angry if they were re-built! You think they'd be out in their caves going "... NO! THEY REBUILT THEM! WE LOST!! " Please people, they already accomplished their goal.

The simple truth is, re-building the twins would only be a symbol of how the U.S. can't move past 9/11. More importantly, we need to get some more proposals for building(s) on this site, enough with the Freedom Tower and Trump, LET'S GET SOME REAL IDEAS!!!
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Old May 25th, 2005, 04:28 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm
I'm ready to jump ship on the U.S. because I'm sick and tired of being defined abroad by my "religious" retarded right-wing government. Actually, I'm only doing them a favor by calling them religious. Neo-Evangelicals are more of a cult who manipulate Christianity and use it as a tool of discrimination and hatred... sadly, I'm finding it difficult to distinguish them from the likes of Al Qaeda.
Well then do some Mexican migrant worker a favor and leave. We've got too many aspiring immigrants as it is. As for half of the country jumping ship, I think you're reading too much into election politics. Half the country voted for Kerry (I almost forgot his name); that doesn't mean that half wanted to leave the country.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm
And I could not be happier that the U.S. is starting to lose major influence around the world to the likes of the European Union, China, India and Brazil. I believe it takes more than one "superpower" to keep things in balance.
India and Brazil won't ever be superpowers. Brazil's economy is actually worse now than it was decades ago; my lawn grows faster than India's GDP per capita.

The U.S. will exceed the E.U. in population possibly by mid-century. We're already richer per capita than Europeans are, so a richer AND more populous U.S. is going to continue to dominate the Western agenda. China is indeed on a path to becoming a bonafide superpower, but China's made some stupid social moves in the past century. It's too early to tell whether the Chinese psyche is truly modern or just some Confucian approximation of modernity.

World War I & II were a result of there being too many overpopulated world powers. Pax Americana has been good for Western nations. If there's any potential for imbalance, it comes from newly resurgent Third World countries that think it's their turn to run the world. All those new nationalists think that if the U.S. was out of the way, THEY'D be the next superpower. How noble of them to think of others first.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm
And I think the idea of re-building the twins for spite like some people want is a waste. Because no one's going to want to work in them, and most importantly, terrorists wouldn't get all angry if they were re-built! You think they'd be out in their caves going "... NO! THEY REBUILT THEM! WE LOST!! " Please people, they already accomplished their goal.
The World Trade Center was a truly areligious and acultural building. It wasn't European Gothic, Chinese Confucian, or Arab Islamic. The WTC was simply geometric purity. The WTC was a secular cathedral to modernity that inspired millions to visit and immigrate to the U.S.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm
The simple truth is, re-building the twins would only be a symbol of how the U.S. can't move past 9/11. More importantly, we need to get some more proposals for building(s) on this site, enough with the Freedom Tower and Trump, LET'S GET SOME REAL IDEAS!!!
If 9/11 hadn't happened, the WTC would still be there. There was nothing inherently wrong with the towers, so I see no reason why we as Americans should sweep them under a rug. Let me remind you that the towers were designed by a Japanese American and not by some white neo-Evangelical Christian that you seem to so detest.

I think it's telling that someone who doesn't want to see the WTC rebuilt also can't stand to be an American.
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Old May 25th, 2005, 05:39 AM   #107
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Bravo, I agree with the above written.
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Old May 25th, 2005, 05:41 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archiconnoisseur
Well then do some Mexican migrant worker a favor and leave.
With pleasure!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archiconnoisseur
India and Brazil won't ever be superpowers. Brazil's economy is actually worse now than it was decades ago; my lawn grows faster than India's GDP per capita ...... All those new nationalists think that if the U.S. was out of the way, THEY'D be the next superpower. How noble of them to think of others first.
... Hmm, I think this is the kind of nutjob I have to keep telling foreigners is only representative of the "bad" half of the U.S. God help us if you ever obtain a passport!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archiconnoisseur
The World Trade Center was a truly areligious and acultural building. It wasn't European Gothic, Chinese Confucian, or Arab Islamic. The WTC was simply geometric purity. The WTC was a secular cathedral to modernity that inspired millions to visit and immigrate to the U.S.
Agreed! Except for the part about "inspiring millions to visit" that's a bit overzealous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archiconnoisseur
If 9/11 hadn't happened, the WTC would still be there.
This is perhaps the poorest argument I've heard yet to rebuild the twins. Or wait, I got one! "If we don't rebuild the WTC, what'll New Yorkers use for an HDTV antennae???"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archiconnoisseur
I think it's telling that someone who doesn't want to see the WTC rebuilt also can't stand to be an American.
HEY! At least I'm intelligent enough to realize there's BETTER places in the world than the U.S. As much as I'd love to stick around and do all the fun things Americans do, like discriminating against homosexuals, holding KKK rallies, ignoring atrocities like Darfur and eating till we're all fat while millions starve... I think I'll pass!
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Old May 25th, 2005, 06:00 AM   #109
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Nice, guys. You completely dirtied the thread.
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Old May 25th, 2005, 06:02 AM   #110
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Hey as long as Archiconnoisseur or anyone else doesn't hit back I'll have no further business in this thread.
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Old May 25th, 2005, 06:05 AM   #111
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Not this topic again . . .
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Old May 25th, 2005, 06:10 AM   #112
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As I said before, I'd like to see someone like Cesar Pelli have a go at modifying the facade of the new WTC.

I wonder if Frank Gehry could come up with a way to clad the towers in a monolithic stainless steel skin so that from afar the buildings would appear solid.
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Old May 25th, 2005, 06:19 AM   #113
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I like trumps idea
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Old May 25th, 2005, 06:21 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm
Hey as long as Archiconnoisseur or anyone else doesn't hit back I'll have no further business in this thread.
You guys could've PM'ed each otherinstead of stearing the thread off track. But I'm probably not one to talk!

I hope Trump, in the unlikely event his idea is approved, isn't set on this design. It's boring. I'd love to see something like the twins rebuilt, but this doesn't do anything for me.
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Old May 25th, 2005, 06:22 AM   #115
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Freedom tower realy is boring and those preposed ones around it
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Old May 25th, 2005, 06:24 AM   #116
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although freedom tower would look good in hong kong
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Old May 25th, 2005, 06:26 AM   #117
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[QUOTE=Archiconnoisseur]"And people posting that the terrorists did New Yorkers a favor by destroying the WTC aren't?"

"We should completely erase from the skyline any sign that 9/11 took place, and the best way to do that is to rebuild the twins. It's bad enough that there will be extensive memorials to the atrocity at ground level, but I'm horrified at the thought of memorializing Islamofascism with huge building-sized abstractions."

This is exactly what I meant. Who said anything about any of the memorials at ground zero memorializing 'Islamofascism' ?? I thought the memorial was to honor the people who died there. To rebuild as if 9/11 never took place would be an extreme dishonor to the people who died there!!!!!! Extreme!

I wish I could find the article in the NYTimes that was about the families of the 9/11 victims and what they wanted done. As everyone knows who has followed that, there are a wide range of opinions among the families, including the sentiment that the towers should be rebuilt. It would be interesting to see what the percentages are of relatives wanting a memorial vs. those who want the towers rebuilt. I know some of them were vehemently opposed to the idea of the towers being rebuilt.

This is what I mean though. People forget over 3,000 people died there! Including a couple friends of mine. My former roommate, who worked in a floral shop in the underground mall, still suffers stress from that day......
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Old May 25th, 2005, 06:45 AM   #118
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@ Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm & Archiconnoisseur...


quit hijacking this thread.

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Old May 25th, 2005, 06:56 AM   #119
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[QUOTE=steblack]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archiconnoisseur
This is what I mean though. People forget over 3,000 people died there! Including a couple friends of mine. My former roommate, who worked in a floral shop in the underground mall, still suffers stress from that day......
The problem is that the site does not belong only to those who lost loved ones there. It's a public space, and one that will be used by our descendents for decades.

I don't think it's fair to force generations of Americans to navigate through a graveyard in the center of lower Manhattan. Life is for the living, and whatever is constructed at Ground Zero should first and foremost be an excellent piece of architecture that furthers the urban lifestyle and improves the environment. I'm tired of seeing bleak abstract memorials that are lifeless and force people to negotiate around them.

I'd be happy to see the towers rebuilt right on top of the original footprints, but perhaps lifted off the ground on vaulted arches that touch down at the corners. I can't think of a better monument than to construct an awe-inspiring skyscraper on each of the original footprints.

How big a memorial is fitting for the 9/11 victims? The Vietnam War cost us over 50 thousand casualties, but we only built a small wall for them in Washington (although there are other memorials scattered around the country). Do the roughly 2,500 9/11 victims deserve to hog all of the three-dimensional space that is Ground Zero?

I certainly don't think the WTC was perfect. I especially disliked the wind-swept plaza at ground level. While the plaza served as a nice stage on which to present the two gargantuan towers, they were very uninviting as a public place.
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Old May 25th, 2005, 07:01 AM   #120
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It makes me bitter that only families who don't wish the site rebuilt garner the attention.

My sister was murdered in those attacks, including many friends, yet you don't see journalists running to me for my opinion. This is now a site the doesn't just belong to a few select billionaires, but to the people of the world, affected by the tragedies that befell the city on September eleventh.
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