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Old December 26th, 2006, 07:27 AM   #1041
zexyworm
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Shame

I passed through the terminal during a technical stop flying EK from Sydney to Dubai.

I could not resist seeing the inside of the terminal, so I bothered to get a terminal pass from the crew and my God was I disappointed!

First I was not impressed by the outside because the construction seems too "heavy" with concrete being used rather than steel and "space" systems.

On the inside, I couldn't believe that airport opened recently. Not a single floor tile seemed normal. There was cracks, stains, strange areas where there was no finish at all, exposed HVAC and electrical cables with no cable trays or protection whatsoever. The signage is poor. No vegetation except a fake palm tree right in the middle of the terminal (strange for a country like Thailand with all its immense fauna...).

Right, the bathrooms looked like tired bathrooms from a New York 60's parking lot. No style, no real finishes, no dispensors, just HARD surfaces with no attention to detail or soul. A shame, given the billions spent on this airport.

The shopping areas are grossly inadequate and their signage systems are not standardized. Known brands are missing, and VERY basic stuff such as shaving razors are unavailable - even from the pharmacy!

Above was my 1-hour experience at the airport I THOUGHT would blow my head away. So I must agree with the original author of this post, this facility is truly a triumph of style over substance. It was mostly designed to impress from the outside (something which did not win me over since I'm an architect and have seen great airport facilities in my life, and Kuala Lumpur and Incheon are great examples).

Thailand - still a developing country, and that becomes apparent as soon as you land at the new BKK Airport.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 08:42 AM   #1042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zexyworm View Post
I passed through the terminal during a technical stop flying EK from Sydney to Dubai.

I could not resist seeing the inside of the terminal, so I bothered to get a terminal pass from the crew and my God was I disappointed!

First I was not impressed by the outside because the construction seems too "heavy" with concrete being used rather than steel and "space" systems.

On the inside, I couldn't believe that airport opened recently. Not a single floor tile seemed normal. There was cracks, stains, strange areas where there was no finish at all, exposed HVAC and electrical cables with no cable trays or protection whatsoever. The signage is poor. No vegetation except a fake palm tree right in the middle of the terminal (strange for a country like Thailand with all its immense fauna...).

Right, the bathrooms looked like tired bathrooms from a New York 60's parking lot. No style, no real finishes, no dispensors, just HARD surfaces with no attention to detail or soul. A shame, given the billions spent on this airport.

The shopping areas are grossly inadequate and their signage systems are not standardized. Known brands are missing, and VERY basic stuff such as shaving razors are unavailable - even from the pharmacy!

Above was my 1-hour experience at the airport I THOUGHT would blow my head away. So I must agree with the original author of this post, this facility is truly a triumph of style over substance. It was mostly designed to impress from the outside (something which did not win me over since I'm an architect and have seen great airport facilities in my life, and Kuala Lumpur and Incheon are great examples).

Thailand - still a developing country, and that becomes apparent as soon as you land at the new BKK Airport.
imo, i think it's much better than most of airports in what you so called 'developed countries'. i know it has its problems. but it isn't like those problems can't be solved. it's just a matter of time. most new opening airports all have problems
don't get me wrong, i am not trying to protect the airport. but i am just saying that this article is coming from one source. There are lots of other articles who adore the airport.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 08:58 AM   #1043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiku99 View Post
imo, i think it's much better than most of airports in what you so called 'developed countries'. i know it has its problems. but it isn't like those problems can't be solved. it's just a matter of time. most new opening airports all have problems
don't get me wrong, i am not trying to protect the airport. but i am just saying that this article is coming from one source. There are lots of other articles who adore the airport.
Yeah i see where you're coming from. Don't get me wrong either...we dont want to be overly criticizing this airport, but it does have some major faults and i just feel that this airport has been glorified for a bit too long on SSC whilst ignoring the rather serious problems that it is having, so its good to draw attention to the negative points.

I really hope that BKK will be able to sort these problems out, because it has great potential. However there are many people who believe that BKK is fundamentally flawed in design and the problems will therefore be very difficult to overcome.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 09:27 AM   #1044
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yep, its time to shift attention to the 2 threads that point out the very serious shortcomings of this airport.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=423951

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=422704

Another example of a very unsatisfied passenger travelling through BKK:

Bangkok Suvarnabhumi Airport by Bren Lynch
3 December 2006


It's a good job I had a look at this website to forewarn me about the new Bangkok Suvarnabhumi Airport. The new airport is a nightmare for first timers, it's 2 crossroads with a very long centre section to be negotiated around KingPower Duty free obstructions - there was even a toilet area obstructed by a KingPower display unit ! Arrivals Level 2 - Toilets are located half-way along the walkway (you have to jump over the rail to get off?) Near the Immigration there were 2 toilets for women in 1 block instead of 1 each Male/Female ! If you're Transfering , the 2 'Transfer Crossroads' areas can be missed if you follow the signs - both the BA/Qantas and Emirates transfer signs send you off in the wrong direction. Immigration and Baggage reclaim seemed ok, but when you exit Customs, it's very difficult to find the hand scrawled 'Public Taxi' (regular Bangkok taxis) sign. All the expensive services get the clear signage? Departures Level 4 - Check-ins are ok, but the 'Departure tax' booths are located in bottleneck areas. Once you get through Immigration , the trolley area obstructs entry to the main floor. The main Departures shopping area is huge, with a great variety of good value food - Espresso and Raisin Danish B150 (E3,20) in the centre island cafe, or a Pizza, Chicken wings and Pepsi for B180 in the Pizza Company outlet (E3,80 ). If you've the time, BKK - Suv has the shopping for you ! Once again toilets are well hidden from view behind shops and food outlets, very small signage and broken flooring make using them an adventure. The Air-Con was very hit and miss, some areas sweltering, others just right. Overhead, the 'Canvas' overhanging sheets were torn already in places, and I can only imaging a few years dust build up will weigh the down more ! Window cleaning must be a nightmare ! Floor tiling was badly soiled, broken, or collapsed in places. The SUV website / maps are useless compared with the old Don Muang maps. Overall, it's a very impressive looking structure that may win awards for it's designer, but it's a pity that they don't employ 'snaggers' to find and fix the problem areas that affect customers !

For such a high profile new opening, this is apalling really...i hope BKK can sort this out ASAP.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 09:45 AM   #1045
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I frequent an aviation site. Here are some comments from pilots with their views on BKK's new airport. Interesting to see how it is regarded through their eyes. It looks stunning from a distance as I have seen on here... but sadly it appears to let itself down close-up. Hope they get things back on track soon.

1. I travel through BKK many times and had worked with many employees at the airport. Whoever approved a glass structure in the tropics should lose their job or at least are made to walk from domestic to an international gate each day they are employed. The glass is always dirty and always seems a mess. It is also extremely hot and the higher you go the hotter is gets. Restaurants are few and the ones that are there are expensive. The only airport that I think is worse is Heathrow, but that has an excuse. It's old.

2. A disaster area. Windows growing mould, taxiways subsiding, tarmac so soft that large amounts of power is required to taxi, building too hot, no signs, no announcements, few baggage counters. Someone, somewhere has no doubt made a lot of money out of this disaster area, but the airport users are left to suffer the consequences. Heads should roll, for what should have been a showpiece facility is a rapidly becoming a national embarrassment.

3. Having used Suvarnabhumi virtually weekly I’ve watched the place literally fall apart. The revolving glass entrance doors are nearly all unserviceable and the outside walkways from the roads are filthy. It already looks like an old airport as opposed to a new one. It certainly is an embarrassment.


4. Let us not mince words here. Deposed PM Thaksin (outed in a recent coup) tried to open this wreck of an airport a year ago to save face (very important in Asia). I sat a few days ago in a departure area watching Thai gardeners sleeping on the grass while a few tried to rectify sprinklers that had not worked for months hence the dead turf. If you can't get the gardens right what hope is there for the rest? Dump trucks are still emptying landfill with dust clouds as 747's slide an approach to this 3rd world airport.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 10:13 AM   #1046
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is it true?
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Old December 26th, 2006, 10:53 AM   #1047
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I think the main culprits are:

1- An exxagerated construction schedule putting unreaslistic deadlines above quality and integrity.

2- A total disregard to execution quality by the contractors (From one glance through the terminal it's evident that the general contractor (if any) has questionable certification/experience. ISO anyone?

3- The detailing is very poor. By "detailing" I mean the design of how materials intersect and how materials and users come together in general. Marble "breathes" and behaves differently than glass with fluctuations of air temperature + humidity, etc. This is usually taken into consideration when the designers are world-class and thorouroughly experienced. You don't build an airport as if you were building a warehouse or a mall. This is mainly because of the huge scale difference and immense settlement as the concrete settles.

4- The urge to open the airport prematurely. I dare say this does not only constitute an eyesore (especially those construction workers taking breaks, smoking and harassing women, next to transit passengers) but it's also dangerous. Falling debris and risk of injury is very high. This would never happen in say London, etc. imagine the lawsuit potential.


Having said the above, let me REGISTER my respect for Thailand and the Thai people in their efforts to bring their airport infrastructure to international level. That effort is commendable. My only regret is both the lack of design quality and contractor shortcomings... The least they could have done is to hire an international architect (design architect) and an indigenous one (record architect), as well as a better contractor.

Cheers, a happy new year!
Zexyworm
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Old December 26th, 2006, 11:10 AM   #1048
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zexyworm View Post
I think the main culprits are:

1- An exxagerated construction schedule putting unreaslistic deadlines above quality and integrity.

2- A total disregard to execution quality by the contractors (From one glance through the terminal it's evident that the general contractor (if any) has questionable certification/experience. ISO anyone?

3- The detailing is very poor. By "detailing" I mean the design of how materials intersect and how materials and users come together in general. Marble "breathes" and behaves differently than glass with fluctuations of air temperature + humidity, etc. This is usually taken into consideration when the designers are world-class and thorouroughly experienced. You don't build an airport as if you were building a warehouse or a mall. This is mainly because of the huge scale difference and immense settlement as the concrete settles.

4- The urge to open the airport prematurely. I dare say this does not only constitute an eyesore (especially those construction workers taking breaks, smoking and harassing women, next to transit passengers) but it's also dangerous. Falling debris and risk of injury is very high. This would never happen in say London, etc. imagine the lawsuit potential.


Having said the above, let me REGISTER my respect for Thailand and the Thai people in their efforts to bring their airport infrastructure to international level. That effort is commendable. My only regret is both the lack of design quality and contractor shortcomings... The least they could have done is to hire an international architect (design architect) and an indigenous one (record architect), as well as a better contractor.

Cheers, a happy new year!
Zexyworm

Yes, these are all very good points, I think another one is the total disregard to detail that makes an airport user friendly. The signage at BKK is apparantly appaling, the few signs that are around send you in the wrong direction. Secondly you can see mistakes like 2 female toilets in the same block instead of 1 male and 1 female facility. The whole place seems rather messed up.

I too commend the Thais effort at building a world class airport, however it is very important to point out that at this point in time this airport is no where near upto standard whatsoever. SSC was pretty much the only place i knew that was still glorifying it.

I hope the Thais will sort these problems out, they have great ambitions so im sure this will be a wake up call to them.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 01:46 PM   #1049
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What if these problems cause Suvarmabhumi to end up like Mirabel Airport in Montreal and close permanently? I can't allow Suvarnabhumi to do so.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 03:45 PM   #1050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pedang View Post
is it true?
Sorry Pedang, I don't quite follow. Is what true? If you mean the photo, yes, it most certainly is. As for the text that I cut and pasted, yes these are opinions of the people who fly in and out of there. Like every site, there are dickheads, but on this site the majority are pretty level-headed, objective people, and generally apply the same professional standards to their postings as they do to their jobs.

This is what surprised me about the posts. Amongst the airline pilots there is an overwhelmingly negative opinion of the standard of work at the airport (as far as workmanship is concerned, not one post was complimentary), be it internally or externally - especially the taxiways. Let's hope when they conduct the necessary repairs, they do so to a high standard. It's a shame to see such a trumpeted airport fail to live up to expectations and to be so poorly regarded by the pilots that fly there. Some posters were so disgusted, they were GLAD that Don Muang was going to be re-opened.

I could post all of it but won't for fear of being seen to be Suvarnabhumi Bashing! Cheers.

Last edited by Captain Chaos; December 26th, 2006 at 03:58 PM.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 03:49 PM   #1051
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Poor Bangkok
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Old December 26th, 2006, 07:40 PM   #1052
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O my God!!! Why have these imperfections been only discovered months after??? This is so dubious... Definitely someone should be held accountable for all this crap...

I agree with the initial suggestion: Move back to Don Muang... better be safe than sorry!!!
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Old December 26th, 2006, 08:49 PM   #1053
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am sad to hear all these realities. and that's right...better be safe than sorry. pilots should know better. let's give some time for the airport's repair and open again up again when it's ready.
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Old December 27th, 2006, 03:42 AM   #1054
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Suvarnabhumi airport repairs will cost at least 1.5 billion baht

By Amornrat Mahitthirook
Manop Thip-Osod

Authorities have yet to determine who's to blame for the shoddy workmanship and problems plaguing Suvarnabhumi airport, but they now know repairs will cost at least 1.5 billion baht. Airports of Thailand (AoT) board member Yodyiam Theptranont, whose working group is examining the host of problems at Suvarnabhumi airport, met technicians, Suvarnabhumi designers, builders and construction supervisers yesterday.

The meeting concluded the airport, opened only three months ago, had 61 construction-related problems that must be sorted out immediately and the task would cost at least 1.5 billion baht.

Mr Yodyiam said ITO Joint Venture, the airport contractor, insisted that it followed the building plans, while designers said the designs were changed during construction.

Mr Yodyiam said who was to blame for the problems could be eventually uncovered through examination of all the designs. Changes had been made repeatedly as the airport project was supervised by many governments, he said.

He had set up a checkairport.com website to gather information to facilitate the investigation. Meanwhile, he said, improvement was the first priority and both builders and designers had promised to cooperate.

Wanchai Wimuktayon, managing-director of ACT Consultants Co, said designs had continually been adjusted during construction, when politicians had taken turns to supervise the project. His company is part of the MJTA consortium that designed Suvarnabhumi.

He said Suvarnabhumi airport was originally designed to commence operations in 2000. As the opening was delayed to 2006, adjustments to the designs were inevitable to suit the prevailing conditions. Cost cutting was a reason for some of the changes.

The National Legislative Assembly's committee on Suvarnabhumi airport plans to complete its inquiries into the airport's irregularities and problems within the next month. The committee yesterday appointed seven sub-panels to look into different aspects.

Committee spokesman Yuthapong Charassathien said are sub-committees on the contracts of King Power International Group, Novotel Suvarnabhumi Airport Hotel, public transport and security problems, cleanliness and environmental problems inside and outside the airport terminal, and the airport's construction.

Committee chairman Adm Bannawit Kengrian would send the findings to AoT chairman Gen Saprang Kalayanamitr.


By: Bangkok Post News
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Old December 27th, 2006, 05:01 AM   #1055
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I am not surprised by this at all. The issue of construction quality seems to be of concern all over Thailand. Anyone who has been to the new Siam Paragon would noticed the mold issues, poor construction/workmanship just look up on at vents!), unlevelled floors etc. I actually tripped while shopping there the past summer. One can only imagine what lies underneath the drywalls and floor tiles etc!
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Old December 28th, 2006, 02:28 AM   #1056
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well, i accept and understand all the comments. but honestly, those minor problmes, like not having enough restrooms or they being dirty, not enough arrival areas...etc. are really not that bad imo. i mean come on, the airport is actually not that dirty. it's in fact cleaner than most other airports. and i've been to many other airports in different countries already. I think all these are just about expectations of people. Since this airport is supposed to be the world's largest (at least at the moment), therefore people tend to have high expectations about it.
i totally understand that it's right now not perfect but just give it some time.... airports open 24 hr all day all night. so sometimes, it's hard for them to fix those problems quickly. i agree, of course, that they were too rush in operning the airport...btw, i think the design is great. yah, it may have some flaws as mentioned but those are being taking care of....so...
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Old December 28th, 2006, 02:42 AM   #1057
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I've been saying it all along that this airport lacks signage and certain quality and materials used are questionable.
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Old December 28th, 2006, 03:26 AM   #1058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zexyworm View Post
I think the main culprits are:

1- An exxagerated construction schedule putting unreaslistic deadlines above quality and integrity.

2- A total disregard to execution quality by the contractors (From one glance through the terminal it's evident that the general contractor (if any) has questionable certification/experience. ISO anyone?

3- The detailing is very poor. By "detailing" I mean the design of how materials intersect and how materials and users come together in general. Marble "breathes" and behaves differently than glass with fluctuations of air temperature + humidity, etc. This is usually taken into consideration when the designers are world-class and thorouroughly experienced. You don't build an airport as if you were building a warehouse or a mall. This is mainly because of the huge scale difference and immense settlement as the concrete settles.

4- The urge to open the airport prematurely. I dare say this does not only constitute an eyesore (especially those construction workers taking breaks, smoking and harassing women, next to transit passengers) but it's also dangerous. Falling debris and risk of injury is very high. This would never happen in say London, etc. imagine the lawsuit potential.


Having said the above, let me REGISTER my respect for Thailand and the Thai people in their efforts to bring their airport infrastructure to international level. That effort is commendable. My only regret is both the lack of design quality and contractor shortcomings... The least they could have done is to hire an international architect (design architect) and an indigenous one (record architect), as well as a better contractor.

Cheers, a happy new year!
Zexyworm
I myself haven't visited this new airport yet but I've read a lot about it in the press and read review and seen a lot of photos.

BTW it's designed by a famous 'international architect' called Helmut Jahn who won an international design competition to build this airport many years ago. Jahn designed many airports before eg Chicago O'hare terminal building and new extension to Munich airport in Germany. He is an internationally respected architect with 'world class' experience in designing airports (in fact there are a couple of books dedicated to his airport projects).

I think the problem lies with the execution, too many sub-contractors and change of material specificiations. As I don't all know the details whose involved in this project I can't comment on those miniscule aspects. Also some issues relate to airport management more than design (eg baggage handling, staffing, information architecture).

A lot of people complaint that the airport is overcrowded already. Remember this airport itself is a new landmark for BKK, its a tourist attraction as well. There are visitors coming to see it than use it. A lot of people dont have reasons to be there just go there, hence there's more pressure to upkeep airport facilities, congestion problems etc.

There are talk of reopening Don Muang to serve domestic and low cost airlines. Just talks at this stage. Ultimately they are going to build a new low cost terminal at Suvarnabhumi, this should ease the congestion in that super terminal structure.
I do hope the problems highlighted can be fix and i am sure it will.
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Old December 28th, 2006, 11:32 PM   #1059
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kentan8 View Post
I am not surprised by this at all. The issue of construction quality seems to be of concern all over Thailand. Anyone who has been to the new Siam Paragon would noticed the mold issues, poor construction/workmanship just look up on at vents!), unlevelled floors etc. I actually tripped while shopping there the past summer. One can only imagine what lies underneath the drywalls and floor tiles etc!
The problem is not one of quality control or lack of quality per se, but it is the fact that project financers/owners all wanted to open these venues as soon as possible, forcing contractors to rush into finishing the buildings and coming back to pick up the loose ends later.

Malls want to cash in on a certain shopping season while politicians want to benefit from opening a new airport (and also profit from the construction).

And tbh, Siam Paragon has pretty much resolved most problems. The only visible marks of shoddy quality I saw when I was there when it was newly opened was unclean glass and some loose ends here and there (shops still being unopened, a smell of paint). Overall it is not the disaster you claim.
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Old December 29th, 2006, 04:02 AM   #1060
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Well, I know the 1st place they should fix.... the unlevelled flooring on the concourse between D3 and D4 .....I knew because I lost my balance there last week.
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