SYDNEY: Westfield Tower - 32st/150m/off/retail (Part 1) - Page 7

Fabian · August 28th, 2003, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CULWULLA
latest!!!

the design has slightly changed. the 3rd tower which is the tallest (133m) is now 120m and larger due to being office tower. Its also attached to north facing wall of eastern bookend tower, thus making an L shaped tower.
aslo i think Centrepoint will hold the record for most storeys underground!!! the new carpark and retail will go down 13storeys of 52m deep!!! (currently 3 storeys)

thats compared to world tower-(10storeys/30m)
cove-10storeys/30m)
GPO tower-11storeys/30m)
village-8storeys/25m)

Why the move to office now?

At least it's good. The Pitt st mall is starting to become the place to do business!!!

CULWULLA · September 3rd, 2003, 01:16 PM

heres a southern elevation of current proposal.

Fabian · September 3rd, 2003, 09:54 PM

Whats happened to the proposed hotel and gym for the site?

CULWULLA · September 4th, 2003, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fabian
Whats happened to the proposed hotel and gym for the site?

there was never hotel use., but on a podium level there is gym/recreation/pool ect..

andad1 · September 4th, 2003, 12:37 AM

Dont like it at all....yet another couple of boring mid rise blocks in the mid city area.....I like the concept but not the design...it could be much more creative and better if up around 150m...though I guess this is too tall for the sun access plane rule.

Fabian · September 4th, 2003, 05:09 AM

They could build the office tower a bit higher without it impacting on the sun access plane over Hyde Park but I guess the mall cuts out any chance.

Vitriol · September 5th, 2003, 06:37 AM

Yes, what an impact on the skyline those two proposed "towers" will have.

Trances · September 5th, 2003, 03:10 PM

Love how they hug the sun access plain

CULWULLA · September 5th, 2003, 03:49 PM

The towers could only go up 1/3 of Sydney towers height anway due to just the impact the towers will have on the look of the tower. i hate the whole consept of altering the towers overall design.. you woudlnt see this happen to Eiffel tower!

Fabian · September 5th, 2003, 11:32 PM

This is the only downside to building the development. I'm glad Westfield has respected the tower.

Fabian · October 3rd, 2003, 11:44 PM

Retailers have become concerned about the impact construction would have on their business and also residents of The Tower are considering applying to have the tower heritage listed in order to protect their views

From The Sydney Morning Herald

Shop tactics

October 4, 2003

From the 20th-floor meeting rooms of Westfield's corporate headquarters in East Sydney, there is a clear view across Hyde Park, past the sandstone spires of St Mary's Cathedral, to Centrepoint Tower. From this vantage point it is not obscured by the buildings around it. You can see almost all of the famous Sydney landmark, from its striking golden turret down the length of the thick cables to its squat concrete base.

But Centrepoint's owner, the shopping centre giant Westfield, wants to change that view, maybe forever, with three new towers. It's a $200 million idea that has been growing ever since Westfield bought the building from AMP Henderson Global just under two years ago.

In recent months a ferocious chorus of opposition has risen against the size, shape and intensity of the Westfield plan. It has attracted the ire of the high-profile occupants of a nearby apartment block, the Tower Apartments, among them the powerful head of banking and property at Macquarie Bank, Bill Moss, whose apartment has views to Centrepoint.

Now it has pitched the retailing icon David Jones against Westfield in a furious public relations battle. David Jones fears that what might be three years of non-stop construction could severely affect the income of its two flagship stores that both front Market and Castlereagh streets, and has begun agitating against the plan.

Westfield claims relations between the two companies have soured only since the arrival of David Jones's new CEO, Mark McInnes, in February. Despite being happy to give extensive briefings, neither party was willing to speak on the record.

Further complicating matters is a pending change of leadership at the City of Sydney Council, which will ultimately decide if and how the proposal goes ahead. The development was first mooted under the former lord mayor, Frank Sartor, but the council mantle now rests with his successor, Lucy Turnbull, who is sympathetic to the plight of David Jones and other retailers.

While she thinks the existing podium "does not make a positive contribution to the surrounding streetscapes", Turnbull does have concerns about the proposal, including its potential impact on traffic and the built form of the tower itself. So, the focus is moving to the outcome of the March local government elections, which could see another shift in the power balance if Labor wins control.

Willem Sprokkreeff, chairman of the Tower Apartments executive committee, says: "They are building a monster in the heart of the city." But Chris Johnson, the Government Architect and a member of the City of Sydney committee formed to guide the development, disagrees: "It's been difficult because of the iconic nature of the structure [but] it's not like the Eiffel Tower, which sits in parklands. At first you think we should do nothing around it. But once you move back a couple of blocks you see that the setting of the tower is one that is among the city buildings. It emerges from the complexities of the city."

But there is little argument about the enormity of the project. Three new towers are proposed, plus a complete refurbishment of existing commercial space, including converting the Australian Tax Office, above Market Street, into upmarket apartments. By Westfield's reckoning, it could take four years to complete. And this is what has sparked the fiercest opposition.

According to research produced by David Jones, excavation for the new 13-level underground car park alone would result in 70 trucks a day rumbling down Castlereagh Street - one every 10 minutes - for six months. The calculation is not disputed by Westfield. City retailers fear that the disruption will cost them dearly if it drives away shoppers.

David Jones estimates a loss of $16 million during the period, and Gowings, on the corner of Market and George streets, has predicted a 10 per cent loss of sales and a 20 per cent reduction in local pedestrian traffic. Also alarmed are the upmarket fashion brands clustered around King and Castlereagh streets - such as Armani, Chanel and Versace.

David Jones's flagship stores produce about 18 per cent of the chain's national sales and 21 per cent of its profits. The company is among the 165 CBD businesses that have rallied at meetings organised by the Australian Retailers' Association in recent months. Duncan Shaw, the association's executive director, said businesses were "concerned about their ability to trade at a level that would be acceptable to run their businesses during this development". And hundreds of submissions have been fired off to the Sydney City Council, objecting to a perceived lack of consultation on the part of both the council and Westfield over the plan.

There has been some movement on Westfield's part, and in the next few weeks it will submit a series of amendments to the plans. The third tower has been changed from residential use to commercial and has had its spire lopped, lowering it by several metres.

However, for the CBD retailers these cosmetic changes are not enough. David Jones remains adamant that there should not be a car park, saying that adding more than 500 spaces in the middle of the city would cause traffic chaos.

There is a slight chance the development will not go ahead as planned. At the request of Tower Apartments residents, the NSW Heritage Council is assessing the heritage significance of Centrepoint, with a decision due within weeks. If it decides the existing development is significant enough, it will investigate whether it needs "protecting" and an interim protection order could be granted. However, this scenario is unlikely given that Centrepoint was built only in 1981.

"We're not saying it shouldn't be done," says Shaw. "We don't want Sydney to go backwards. What we're asking for is consultation."

Muse · October 4th, 2003, 12:21 AM

Westfield can at least go ahead with the slightly taller Castlereagh Street building where that dumpy 60s ANZ 5/6 storey wall is standing with a clear conscience.

That won't have such an affect on poor, poor businesses such as Armarni and Versace.

Trances · October 4th, 2003, 05:13 PM

People complain about loss of views
if you buy in to the city then accept it will happen in then end unless you get a shore front or part front place.
ANy thing to add flair to the podium I guess.

CULWULLA · December 3rd, 2003, 06:36 AM

bumped

Trances · December 3rd, 2003, 08:19 AM

bumped but now news

Fabian · January 6th, 2004, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trances
People complain about loss of views
if you buy in to the city then accept it will happen in then end unless you get a shore front or part front place.
ANy thing to add flair to the podium I guess.

People mainly complain about the loss of views for money reasons. Without the views, they cannot get the returns they are seeking, and probably lead to the apartment losing value.

And in relation to my last article, I have to agree four years is simply too long, but to fast track the project will probably only lead to further congestion in the short term (even with a complete Cross City Tunnel) and an even greater loss of shoppers.

CULWULLA · January 19th, 2004, 01:00 AM

well latest plans have removed the 3rd taller tower and upped the height of bookend west tower from 105m to 130m/40storeys

i think the removal of the 3rd tower above imperial arcade was a good move. not sure about un even twin towers on podium?

Trances · January 19th, 2004, 01:22 AM

Still takes out all the views that have been making trouble for this

CULWULLA · January 19th, 2004, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Trances
Still takes out all the views that have been making trouble for this

yeah i reckon the tower apartments will be spewing about it. now they have NO views looking east.

Grollo · January 19th, 2004, 02:46 AM

getting rid of the third tower makes it look better but the differening heights of the two bookend towers make it look worse

.

They should have just the two bookend towers, at the same height, but have them very thin and slightly curved, sort of like Toronto City Hall:

September 3rd, 2003, 01:16 PM	#122
CULWULLA Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 46,864 Likes (Received): 32	heres a southern elevation of current proposal. __________________ Sydney Harbour Bridge -1932, Sydney Opera House- 1973, Sydney Tower- 1981, Crown Hotel- 2015..

September 3rd, 2003, 09:54 PM	#123
Fabian Sydney: World's best city Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sydney Posts: 29,607 Likes (Received): 106	Whats happened to the proposed hotel and gym for the site? __________________ 'Cityrail recommends that you and your family travel by bus' - Cityrail

September 4th, 2003, 12:37 AM	#125
andad1 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 62 Likes (Received): 0	Dont like it at all....yet another couple of boring mid rise blocks in the mid city area.....I like the concept but not the design...it could be much more creative and better if up around 150m...though I guess this is too tall for the sun access plane rule. __________________ SYDNEY "AUSTRALIA'S LITTLE MANHATTAN"

September 4th, 2003, 05:09 AM	#126
Fabian Sydney: World's best city Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sydney Posts: 29,607 Likes (Received): 106	They could build the office tower a bit higher without it impacting on the sun access plane over Hyde Park but I guess the mall cuts out any chance. __________________ 'Cityrail recommends that you and your family travel by bus' - Cityrail

September 5th, 2003, 06:37 AM	#127
Vitriol I speak the truth Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sydney Posts: 206 Likes (Received): 0	Wonderful Yes, what an impact on the skyline those two proposed "towers" will have.

September 5th, 2003, 03:10 PM	#128
Trances , , and , Fade to Black. Join Date: May 2003 Location: Living in London Posts: 7,896 Likes (Received): 4	Love how they hug the sun access plain __________________ "Are we ready to go farther or have we already gone to far?" “He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future.”

September 5th, 2003, 03:49 PM	#129
CULWULLA Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 46,864 Likes (Received): 32	The towers could only go up 1/3 of Sydney towers height anway due to just the impact the towers will have on the look of the tower. i hate the whole consept of altering the towers overall design.. you woudlnt see this happen to Eiffel tower! __________________ Sydney Harbour Bridge -1932, Sydney Opera House- 1973, Sydney Tower- 1981, Crown Hotel- 2015..

September 5th, 2003, 11:32 PM	#130
Fabian Sydney: World's best city Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sydney Posts: 29,607 Likes (Received): 106	This is the only downside to building the development. I'm glad Westfield has respected the tower. __________________ 'Cityrail recommends that you and your family travel by bus' - Cityrail

October 3rd, 2003, 11:44 PM	#131
Fabian Sydney: World's best city Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sydney Posts: 29,607 Likes (Received): 106	Retailers have become concerned about the impact construction would have on their business and also residents of The Tower are considering applying to have the tower heritage listed in order to protect their views From The Sydney Morning Herald Shop tactics October 4, 2003 From the 20th-floor meeting rooms of Westfield's corporate headquarters in East Sydney, there is a clear view across Hyde Park, past the sandstone spires of St Mary's Cathedral, to Centrepoint Tower. From this vantage point it is not obscured by the buildings around it. You can see almost all of the famous Sydney landmark, from its striking golden turret down the length of the thick cables to its squat concrete base. But Centrepoint's owner, the shopping centre giant Westfield, wants to change that view, maybe forever, with three new towers. It's a $200 million idea that has been growing ever since Westfield bought the building from AMP Henderson Global just under two years ago. In recent months a ferocious chorus of opposition has risen against the size, shape and intensity of the Westfield plan. It has attracted the ire of the high-profile occupants of a nearby apartment block, the Tower Apartments, among them the powerful head of banking and property at Macquarie Bank, Bill Moss, whose apartment has views to Centrepoint. Now it has pitched the retailing icon David Jones against Westfield in a furious public relations battle. David Jones fears that what might be three years of non-stop construction could severely affect the income of its two flagship stores that both front Market and Castlereagh streets, and has begun agitating against the plan. Westfield claims relations between the two companies have soured only since the arrival of David Jones's new CEO, Mark McInnes, in February. Despite being happy to give extensive briefings, neither party was willing to speak on the record. Further complicating matters is a pending change of leadership at the City of Sydney Council, which will ultimately decide if and how the proposal goes ahead. The development was first mooted under the former lord mayor, Frank Sartor, but the council mantle now rests with his successor, Lucy Turnbull, who is sympathetic to the plight of David Jones and other retailers. While she thinks the existing podium "does not make a positive contribution to the surrounding streetscapes", Turnbull does have concerns about the proposal, including its potential impact on traffic and the built form of the tower itself. So, the focus is moving to the outcome of the March local government elections, which could see another shift in the power balance if Labor wins control. Willem Sprokkreeff, chairman of the Tower Apartments executive committee, says: "They are building a monster in the heart of the city." But Chris Johnson, the Government Architect and a member of the City of Sydney committee formed to guide the development, disagrees: "It's been difficult because of the iconic nature of the structure [but] it's not like the Eiffel Tower, which sits in parklands. At first you think we should do nothing around it. But once you move back a couple of blocks you see that the setting of the tower is one that is among the city buildings. It emerges from the complexities of the city." But there is little argument about the enormity of the project. Three new towers are proposed, plus a complete refurbishment of existing commercial space, including converting the Australian Tax Office, above Market Street, into upmarket apartments. By Westfield's reckoning, it could take four years to complete. And this is what has sparked the fiercest opposition. According to research produced by David Jones, excavation for the new 13-level underground car park alone would result in 70 trucks a day rumbling down Castlereagh Street - one every 10 minutes - for six months. The calculation is not disputed by Westfield. City retailers fear that the disruption will cost them dearly if it drives away shoppers. David Jones estimates a loss of $16 million during the period, and Gowings, on the corner of Market and George streets, has predicted a 10 per cent loss of sales and a 20 per cent reduction in local pedestrian traffic. Also alarmed are the upmarket fashion brands clustered around King and Castlereagh streets - such as Armani, Chanel and Versace. David Jones's flagship stores produce about 18 per cent of the chain's national sales and 21 per cent of its profits. The company is among the 165 CBD businesses that have rallied at meetings organised by the Australian Retailers' Association in recent months. Duncan Shaw, the association's executive director, said businesses were "concerned about their ability to trade at a level that would be acceptable to run their businesses during this development". And hundreds of submissions have been fired off to the Sydney City Council, objecting to a perceived lack of consultation on the part of both the council and Westfield over the plan. There has been some movement on Westfield's part, and in the next few weeks it will submit a series of amendments to the plans. The third tower has been changed from residential use to commercial and has had its spire lopped, lowering it by several metres. However, for the CBD retailers these cosmetic changes are not enough. David Jones remains adamant that there should not be a car park, saying that adding more than 500 spaces in the middle of the city would cause traffic chaos. There is a slight chance the development will not go ahead as planned. At the request of Tower Apartments residents, the NSW Heritage Council is assessing the heritage significance of Centrepoint, with a decision due within weeks. If it decides the existing development is significant enough, it will investigate whether it needs "protecting" and an interim protection order could be granted. However, this scenario is unlikely given that Centrepoint was built only in 1981. "We're not saying it shouldn't be done," says Shaw. "We don't want Sydney to go backwards. What we're asking for is consultation." __________________ 'Cityrail recommends that you and your family travel by bus' - Cityrail

October 4th, 2003, 12:21 AM	#132
Muse Supernature Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sydney Posts: 8,630 Likes (Received): 7	Westfield can at least go ahead with the slightly taller Castlereagh Street building where that dumpy 60s ANZ 5/6 storey wall is standing with a clear conscience. That won't have such an affect on poor, poor businesses such as Armarni and Versace.

October 4th, 2003, 05:13 PM	#133
Trances , , and , Fade to Black. Join Date: May 2003 Location: Living in London Posts: 7,896 Likes (Received): 4	People complain about loss of views if you buy in to the city then accept it will happen in then end unless you get a shore front or part front place. ANy thing to add flair to the podium I guess. __________________ "Are we ready to go farther or have we already gone to far?" “He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future.”

December 3rd, 2003, 06:36 AM	#134
CULWULLA Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 46,864 Likes (Received): 32	bumped __________________ Sydney Harbour Bridge -1932, Sydney Opera House- 1973, Sydney Tower- 1981, Crown Hotel- 2015..

December 3rd, 2003, 08:19 AM	#135
Trances , , and , Fade to Black. Join Date: May 2003 Location: Living in London Posts: 7,896 Likes (Received): 4	bumped but now news __________________ "Are we ready to go farther or have we already gone to far?" “He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future.”

January 19th, 2004, 01:00 AM	#137
CULWULLA Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 46,864 Likes (Received): 32	well latest plans have removed the 3rd taller tower and upped the height of bookend west tower from 105m to 130m/40storeys i think the removal of the 3rd tower above imperial arcade was a good move. not sure about un even twin towers on podium? __________________ Sydney Harbour Bridge -1932, Sydney Opera House- 1973, Sydney Tower- 1981, Crown Hotel- 2015..

January 19th, 2004, 01:22 AM	#138
Trances , , and , Fade to Black. Join Date: May 2003 Location: Living in London Posts: 7,896 Likes (Received): 4	Still takes out all the views that have been making trouble for this __________________ "Are we ready to go farther or have we already gone to far?" “He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future.”

January 19th, 2004, 02:46 AM	#140
Grollo Developer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: melbourne Posts: 6,241 Likes (Received): 54	getting rid of the third tower makes it look better but the differening heights of the two bookend towers make it look worse . They should have just the two bookend towers, at the same height, but have them very thin and slightly curved, sort of like Toronto City Hall:

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