SYDNEY: Westfield Tower - 32st/150m/off/retail (Part 1) - Page 8

Avatar · January 19th, 2004, 03:09 AM

I am sorry to say but Westfield are going to ruin this icon even more now. While i dont like the tower much (lack of height)
now the height of the tower will seem insignificant and the appearance blocked from most vantages, this is akin to desecration. They would have been better with the third tower and no bookend towers at all as they ruin the tower completely. The tower needs to be another 200 metres taller to get above the dominance of this new proposal. Any elegance the tower had will be lost forever and we will be stuck with a desecrated and mediocre yardstick that appears even less impressive.

I am saddened this is what they wish to do.

Avatar · January 19th, 2004, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fabian
This is the only downside to building the development. I'm glad Westfield has respected the tower.

What do you mean RESPECT... they have shown not one iota of respect at all!

If they showed the tower any resepect they would leave it as is and or replace it completely.

gazmo · January 19th, 2004, 03:27 AM

I'm with Avatar on this one - its a desecration.

If ever there was confirmation that big money rules this city - that the dollar and shareholder return overules form, function let alone history, cultural significance and the future legacy of a space - this is it.

It's a terrible waste and deprives the cbd streetscape of iconic views and angle of looking up Pitt Street and see a patch of sky, with the tower framed within it.

A tower's not a tower if you can't see its roots. This development leave the tower hanging in the air, and the significance, dominance and apparent (or relative) height will all be diminished.

January 19th, 2004, 03:50 AM

You will get used to it peoples. The tallest tower is only 120 metres odd.

CULWULLA · January 19th, 2004, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by climbing_crane
You will get used to it peoples. The tallest tower is only 120 metres odd.

west tower-130m, east tower-105m. yeah thats Westfields arguement, they say at that height it wont change look of tower when viewed from any angle, beacuse of bldgs around it are similar heights.

Fabian · January 19th, 2004, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Avatar
What do you mean RESPECT... they have shown not one iota of respect at all!

If they showed the tower any resepect they would leave it as is and or replace it completely.

To tell everyone the truth, I don't think they have shown all that much respect for the existing tower

. The now dumped third tower wasn't a problem though because it was to the north of the tower and doesn't get as close to the cables and the shaft. I just hope the third tower gets revived at some stage in the future.

Sydney Tower is a true icon and forms an important part of the streetscape of Market St, because of it's domiance. It looks absolutely stunning from each end of the street at Darling Harbour & Hyde Park, and even East Sydney.

Tourists often see pics of the tower from this angles and take their own. If this development proceeds, this great look will go and Sydney Tower will lose it's iconic status. Therefore it should not be touched one bit. I'm sure we wouldn't like it if they were going to build towers at the base of the Effiel Tower in Paris.

January 19th, 2004, 04:55 AM

Well is is proposed/approved/visionary or under construction.

CULWULLA · January 19th, 2004, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by climbing_crane
Well is is proposed/approved/visionary or under construction.

the current twin tower plan is in planning design stage. Its slooooowly getting finalised.
should begin next year.

gazmo · January 19th, 2004, 08:38 AM

Fabian,

Your first photo is telling, because you can see "The Tower" obstructing a good part of Centrepoint's elegant supporting wires.

This will be the view from street level and (I imagine) from Hyde Park too.

I have to say again, this development is going to diminish Centrepoint.

Quote:

Originally posted by Fabian
To tell everyone the truth, I don't think they have shown all that much respect for the existing tower. The now dumped third tower wasn't a problem though because it was to the north of the tower and doesn't get as close to the cables and the shaft. I just hope the third tower gets revived at some stage in the future.

Sydney Tower is a true icon and forms an important part of the streetscape of Market St, because of it's domiance. It looks absolutely stunning from each end of the street at Darling Harbour & Hyde Park, and even East Sydney. Tourists often see pics of the tower from this angles and take their own. If this development proceeds, this great look will go and Sydney Tower will lose it's iconic status. Therefore it should not be touched one bit. I'm sure we wouldn't like it if they were going to build towers at the base of the Effiel Tower in Paris.

Avatar · January 19th, 2004, 08:40 AM

This is such a hot potatoe... I suggest the community will be furious when they see what westfield are doing. I guess though the community may be more aggravated if the tower was under a demolition order. I think we should dismantle it and erect it in Western Sydney, shove it on Westfield Parramatta or even better put it into Westfield Chatswood straight down through the round section.

I think we need a new tower and this one really needs to go, all the work they intend to do really destroys this structure it should be located in a far more low-rise environment where it can be appreciated for its form and design.

I hope westfield gets rid of it competely, now this seems the only sensible option. They are perverting the course of Sydney history and vandalising the tower... I'd much rather see them knock a new one with new integrated base put up in its place, adding onto old buildings never achieves a homogeneous result!

I can think of not one (tall) iconic tower anywhere in the world that is as lost as what Sydney Tower is, now it will be even less imposing and far more likely to disappear from certain views. Yes as people have said, noone knocks up buildings around the Eiffel tower, nor CN tower or any of the multitudes of great towers around the world.

It is sad to think we are left with something that is loosing its dominace due to bad planning and even further bad judgements by SCC. For a tower it has never been high enough, it should appear much higher than the surrounding buildings from almost any reasonable distance, not only are these new buildings far too close to the core but even buildings like MLC ruined the tower views from b4 it was constructed (most notably from the north shore). Why they ever built the tower with a lack of height is beyond me, MLC was already there, were the architects stupid? 400-450m is a more healthy height for a tower in sydney, even then i would rather it higher to tip of spire.

Just like Calgary, what is the point of having a telecomunnications tower that is so lost amongst everything?????

AltiusAltiusAltius · January 19th, 2004, 10:27 AM

Centrepoint Tower looks great - I wouldn't trade it for any big tower in the world!

CN Tower, Ostankino, Oriental Pearl, Menara KL all look much worse! Its golden turret is one of Sydney's great icons...

I still hope that this ridiculous proposal will fail somehow, but chances are very slim - those terrible towers will be built around Sydney Tower and ruin the Centrepoint forever. Westfield owners' greed is without limit and Frank Lowy is a retail version of Harry Triguboff!

The Tower has ruined one of Sydney's finest Centrepoint vistas - the one from the Market Street's end of Pyrmont Bridge....

And now Westfield will erect those disgusting buildings and kill the Centrepoint view from St Mary's Cathedral...Shame shame shame....

gazmo · January 19th, 2004, 10:31 AM

If this development goes ahead, SCC credibility in anything remotely close to "lets preserve a height limit that allows Centrepoint's views" can go out the window!

If the SCC is this disrespectful to Centrepoint's form, then they may as well be disrespectful to its height limit too, because they will be reducing Centrepoint to be "just another building" in the CBD.

Fabian · January 19th, 2004, 11:00 AM

gazmo- whatever is left of the vista of the cables from the Darling Harbour end of Market St will disappear completely and no matter how close you get to the tower or far you get away from it, you will never be able to see it which is a dreadful disgrace

. But if you walk up to Kent St, the vista is very clear and you can still see all the cables. I'd be sad if it all went.

As for the view from Hyde Park/St Marys Cathedral, I couldn't bear the thought of a scraper being directly in front of Sydney Tower and poking above the trees where the Archibald fountain is.

Sorry to be negative guys on this development, but this is because Sydney Tower is an icon which should not be touched in such a way. It must be heritage protected (even though it's 22 years young) as to prevent developers from destroying what has made this tower a true Sydney icon and one of the city's great architectural marvels. To destroy it would be architectural vandalism if this term exists.

Does anyone believe it should be heritage protected?

gazmo · January 19th, 2004, 11:37 AM

Fabian - it is precisely that - part of Sydney's heritage as being one of the the Sydney icons.

CULWULLA · January 19th, 2004, 12:42 PM

i believe Sydney tower should be heritage protected BUT its too late and new owners-Westfields have siezed the oportunity to develope the podium and air space above it.
Sydney city council isnt actually responsible for this project, but it has imput into its design. So far the 3rd tower is deleted which is abig step forward.
I actually like grollos idea of curved glass towers (aka Toronto city hall) wrapping around the tower.

The twin towers HAVE to somehow be compatible with current structure or the whole tower will look awkward and silly.
i dont like idea/comcept of uneven heights for the bookend towers.
They need uniformity to balance the tower!!!.
#If the twin towers are both 105m,
#gold glass with dark trimmings (compatible with Sydney towers colours),
#the 12 storey podium must also be refurbished into a descent looking structure,
then the whole complex/tower will at least be worthy of keeping.

ParraMan · January 19th, 2004, 10:27 PM

Yeah needs to be curved on the inner face, to accentuate the shape the cables make at the base, but square facing the street to keep with the streetscape scene maybe. And also move the towers more to the north, to open up the vista along/from Market St.

The whole plan has always seemed absurd to me, and if something were really to be done there, then the whole complex should be redone, ie make the tower taller, keep current shape as the basis for the design, and just build a taller podium or at least integrate the base better with the tower. The current proposal doesn't do that whatsoever.

Anyway, will be nice to see something happen.....

January 21st, 2004, 01:19 PM

In today's SMH (Wednesday 21.01) under the SCC logo notice of application for development of two towers by Westfield, one of 148.15m, the other of 125.2m. Guess where?

Fabian · January 21st, 2004, 08:26 PM

I've had a read of the D/A and apparently the podium will remain the same with retail and commercial space and the new towers will be residential. A Gym will be built within the existing podium. Underground retail space is still to be provided.

Trances · January 22nd, 2004, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Does anyone believe it should be heritage protected?

Yep I do. While I dont like some parts of centerpoint it is still a part of the past. And ws an icon of the time when it was was built. Thats why i should be keep to some degree.
I dont like the poduim at all but then not sure over haul would do much to please me any way

I aggree with Avatar that i should have been higher. Well at least I would have like it to have been. But it what we have now. After thinking about this despite my need for growth and change I would like it to remain as it is as such
IF it about space and more density then There are heaps of other development sites in the city that should be developed before this.

It is just hard to think about this been done with taste and respect. I may sound like I am having a cry but will see.

CULWULLA · January 22nd, 2004, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fabian
I've had a read of the D/A and apparently the podium will remain the same with retail and commercial space and the new towers will be residential. A Gym will be built within the existing podium. Underground retail space is still to be provided.

the podium has a lot of changes actually! we had to do a new model for it. Theres new side areas added and more floor space.

brizer-yeah those heights are RL"s for the two towers.

January 19th, 2004, 03:09 AM	#141
Avatar Galactic Ruler Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sydney Posts: 5,631 Likes (Received): 58	I am sorry to say but Westfield are going to ruin this icon even more now. While i dont like the tower much (lack of height) now the height of the tower will seem insignificant and the appearance blocked from most vantages, this is akin to desecration. They would have been better with the third tower and no bookend towers at all as they ruin the tower completely. The tower needs to be another 200 metres taller to get above the dominance of this new proposal. Any elegance the tower had will be lost forever and we will be stuck with a desecrated and mediocre yardstick that appears even less impressive. I am saddened this is what they wish to do. Last edited by Avatar; January 19th, 2004 at 08:22 AM.

January 19th, 2004, 08:40 AM	#150
Avatar Galactic Ruler Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sydney Posts: 5,631 Likes (Received): 58	This is such a hot potatoe... I suggest the community will be furious when they see what westfield are doing. I guess though the community may be more aggravated if the tower was under a demolition order. I think we should dismantle it and erect it in Western Sydney, shove it on Westfield Parramatta or even better put it into Westfield Chatswood straight down through the round section. I think we need a new tower and this one really needs to go, all the work they intend to do really destroys this structure it should be located in a far more low-rise environment where it can be appreciated for its form and design. I hope westfield gets rid of it competely, now this seems the only sensible option. They are perverting the course of Sydney history and vandalising the tower... I'd much rather see them knock a new one with new integrated base put up in its place, adding onto old buildings never achieves a homogeneous result! I can think of not one (tall) iconic tower anywhere in the world that is as lost as what Sydney Tower is, now it will be even less imposing and far more likely to disappear from certain views. Yes as people have said, noone knocks up buildings around the Eiffel tower, nor CN tower or any of the multitudes of great towers around the world. It is sad to think we are left with something that is loosing its dominace due to bad planning and even further bad judgements by SCC. For a tower it has never been high enough, it should appear much higher than the surrounding buildings from almost any reasonable distance, not only are these new buildings far too close to the core but even buildings like MLC ruined the tower views from b4 it was constructed (most notably from the north shore). Why they ever built the tower with a lack of height is beyond me, MLC was already there, were the architects stupid? 400-450m is a more healthy height for a tower in sydney, even then i would rather it higher to tip of spire. Just like Calgary, what is the point of having a telecomunnications tower that is so lost amongst everything????? Last edited by Avatar; January 19th, 2004 at 10:58 AM.

January 19th, 2004, 10:27 AM	#151
AltiusAltiusAltius Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,193 Likes (Received): 5	Centrepoint Tower looks great - I wouldn't trade it for any big tower in the world! CN Tower, Ostankino, Oriental Pearl, Menara KL all look much worse! Its golden turret is one of Sydney's great icons... I still hope that this ridiculous proposal will fail somehow, but chances are very slim - those terrible towers will be built around Sydney Tower and ruin the Centrepoint forever. Westfield owners' greed is without limit and Frank Lowy is a retail version of Harry Triguboff! The Tower has ruined one of Sydney's finest Centrepoint vistas - the one from the Market Street's end of Pyrmont Bridge.... And now Westfield will erect those disgusting buildings and kill the Centrepoint view from St Mary's Cathedral...Shame shame shame.... __________________ "A City is the greatest work of art possible" Lloyd Rees Last edited by AltiusAltiusAltius; January 19th, 2004 at 10:48 AM.

January 19th, 2004, 11:00 AM	#153
Fabian Sydney: World's best city Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sydney Posts: 29,621 Likes (Received): 106	gazmo- whatever is left of the vista of the cables from the Darling Harbour end of Market St will disappear completely and no matter how close you get to the tower or far you get away from it, you will never be able to see it which is a dreadful disgrace . But if you walk up to Kent St, the vista is very clear and you can still see all the cables. I'd be sad if it all went. As for the view from Hyde Park/St Marys Cathedral, I couldn't bear the thought of a scraper being directly in front of Sydney Tower and poking above the trees where the Archibald fountain is. Sorry to be negative guys on this development, but this is because Sydney Tower is an icon which should not be touched in such a way. It must be heritage protected (even though it's 22 years young) as to prevent developers from destroying what has made this tower a true Sydney icon and one of the city's great architectural marvels. To destroy it would be architectural vandalism if this term exists. Does anyone believe it should be heritage protected? __________________ 'Cityrail recommends that you and your family travel by bus' - Cityrail Last edited by Fabian; January 19th, 2004 at 11:07 AM.

January 19th, 2004, 12:42 PM	#155
CULWULLA Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 46,864 Likes (Received): 32	i believe Sydney tower should be heritage protected BUT its too late and new owners-Westfields have siezed the oportunity to develope the podium and air space above it. Sydney city council isnt actually responsible for this project, but it has imput into its design. So far the 3rd tower is deleted which is abig step forward. I actually like grollos idea of curved glass towers (aka Toronto city hall) wrapping around the tower. The twin towers HAVE to somehow be compatible with current structure or the whole tower will look awkward and silly. i dont like idea/comcept of uneven heights for the bookend towers. They need uniformity to balance the tower!!!. #If the twin towers are both 105m, #gold glass with dark trimmings (compatible with Sydney towers colours), #the 12 storey podium must also be refurbished into a descent looking structure, then the whole complex/tower will at least be worthy of keeping. __________________ Sydney Harbour Bridge -1932, Sydney Opera House- 1973, Sydney Tower- 1981, Crown Hotel- 2015..

January 19th, 2004, 03:27 AM	#143
gazmo Jacaranda Images Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leichhardt Posts: 1,045 Likes (Received): 0	I'm with Avatar on this one - its a desecration. If ever there was confirmation that big money rules this city - that the dollar and shareholder return overules form, function let alone history, cultural significance and the future legacy of a space - this is it. It's a terrible waste and deprives the cbd streetscape of iconic views and angle of looking up Pitt Street and see a patch of sky, with the tower framed within it. A tower's not a tower if you can't see its roots. This development leave the tower hanging in the air, and the significance, dominance and apparent (or relative) height will all be diminished.

January 19th, 2004, 03:50 AM	#144
climbing_crane Guest Posts: n/a Likes (Received):	You will get used to it peoples. The tallest tower is only 120 metres odd.

January 19th, 2004, 04:55 AM	#147
climbing_crane Guest Posts: n/a Likes (Received):	Well is is proposed/approved/visionary or under construction.

January 19th, 2004, 10:31 AM	#152
gazmo Jacaranda Images Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leichhardt Posts: 1,045 Likes (Received): 0	If this development goes ahead, SCC credibility in anything remotely close to "lets preserve a height limit that allows Centrepoint's views" can go out the window! If the SCC is this disrespectful to Centrepoint's form, then they may as well be disrespectful to its height limit too, because they will be reducing Centrepoint to be "just another building" in the CBD.

January 19th, 2004, 11:37 AM	#154
gazmo Jacaranda Images Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leichhardt Posts: 1,045 Likes (Received): 0	Fabian - it is precisely that - part of Sydney's heritage as being one of the the Sydney icons.

January 19th, 2004, 10:27 PM	#156
ParraMan I need to know... Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Parramatta Posts: 1,066 Likes (Received): 10	Yeah needs to be curved on the inner face, to accentuate the shape the cables make at the base, but square facing the street to keep with the streetscape scene maybe. And also move the towers more to the north, to open up the vista along/from Market St. The whole plan has always seemed absurd to me, and if something were really to be done there, then the whole complex should be redone, ie make the tower taller, keep current shape as the basis for the design, and just build a taller podium or at least integrate the base better with the tower. The current proposal doesn't do that whatsoever. Anyway, will be nice to see something happen.....

January 21st, 2004, 01:19 PM	#157
brizer Guest Posts: n/a Likes (Received):	In today's SMH (Wednesday 21.01) under the SCC logo notice of application for development of two towers by Westfield, one of 148.15m, the other of 125.2m. Guess where?

January 21st, 2004, 08:26 PM	#158
Fabian Sydney: World's best city Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sydney Posts: 29,621 Likes (Received): 106	I've had a read of the D/A and apparently the podium will remain the same with retail and commercial space and the new towers will be residential. A Gym will be built within the existing podium. Underground retail space is still to be provided. __________________ 'Cityrail recommends that you and your family travel by bus' - Cityrail

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