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Old May 30th, 2015, 02:06 AM   #1161
Petr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallout View Post
We have built 30 km of metro in 30 years. That's nothing to boast at. And it goes with the same pace since the beginning, despite end of communism, EU funds and all that:

1983-1995: 11 km in 12 years.
1995-2008: 12 km in 13 years.
2008-2015: 6 km in 7 years.

Minsk is building its metro in the same rate, except they have 38 km by now (construction started in 1977).
It's not so easy.

83-89: 7 stations, 8 km, 6 years - central funds
89-06: 10 stations, 11 km, 17 years - local funds
06-15: 11 stations, 9,5 km, 9 years - EU funds
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Old May 31st, 2015, 02:38 AM   #1162
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I agree it could have gone faster, but there were problems that Poland faces or faced that slowed everything, namely endless protests that an archaic legal and tendering system allowed to slow development, this has now been thankfully reformed. Besides this you all know what condition Poland and Warsaw was in post war and post communism, much needed to be done and matching funds or a portion of funds needed to be found. I wish Warsaw had 60 km of metro now, but it was not economically or politically feasible. That's the reality. However, the next section's tender is almost done, so let's be positive and let's hope remainder of Tarchomin tram is built soon and Wilanow line started.
Can you forget about communism and the 90s?
We are referring to NOW.

Tunneling and excavation work should have continued when the central stretch of line 2 from Wilenska to Daszynskiego was completed in October of last year. So far we have had over 6 months of doing absolutely NOTHING.
You seem desperate to provide an excuse for this longest 'tea break' in construction history.
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Old May 31st, 2015, 11:55 AM   #1163
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They're waiting for the EU refunding of the first part of the M2 to pay for works on the next stretches.

Reconstruction of the Łazienkowski Bridge:

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Old May 31st, 2015, 01:17 PM   #1164
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They're waiting for the EU refunding of the first part of the M2 to pay for works on the next stretches.
You are not making any sense.
The EU could have provided a bridging loan to prevent such a long period of stagnation in the metro construction work.

It is a total stupid waste of time and not even funding problems can provide a plausible excuse this time.
The fault lies with the incompetent people overseeing this project who lack foresight.
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Old May 31st, 2015, 01:30 PM   #1165
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Originally Posted by bloganista View Post
The EU could have provided a bridging loan to prevent such a long period of stagnation in the metro construction work.
No, it couldn't. It's not the way EU Cohesion Fund works.
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Old May 31st, 2015, 02:00 PM   #1166
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Excuse me but you haven't got a clue what you are talking about.

It is in the interests of both parties - the EU and the beneficiary for the investment to be realised in a continuous
and time-efficient manner.
This is why bridging loans could have been made available.
This would be a way of avoiding 1 or 2 year breaks in this construction project.

Line 2 will only become financially viable when it is fully complete with 20 stations. Money is lost on a daily basis as each day passes by without any construction work in progress.

Time equals money. Understand?
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Old May 31st, 2015, 02:06 PM   #1167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloganista View Post

Excuse me but you haven't got a clue what you are talking about.
It's only your fantasy.
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Old May 31st, 2015, 11:42 PM   #1168
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Please allow me to help you understand.

Imagine a big supermarket which is one third complete. The manager decides to accept customers anyway to try and make at least a bit of money.

However, the sooner the rest of the supermarket is completed the better.
A financial loss is incurred for each day that goes by with the supermarket being only partially completed.
More goods = more customers = more money.

And so is the case with metro line 2 - the sooner more passengers use it, the better.
We certainly can't afford to be having 2 year construction breaks!
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Old June 1st, 2015, 01:10 PM   #1169
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You have a great imagination and foresight. Unfortunately European Commission lacks these virtues.
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Old June 2nd, 2015, 05:54 PM   #1170
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Finally opened subway between railway Warszawa Chopin Airport station and freshly renovated part of the airport A Terminal.

It would work IMHO even better with a moving walkway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k.olejarz View Post
Niedawno odano do użytku bezpośrednie przejście ze stacji do gruntownie przebudowanego terminala 1. Dziś (28 maja 2015) postanowiłem zobaczyć jak to wygląda.

No więc przyjeżdżamy pociągiem na stację. I co my tam widziem?

1. Koniec toru 2 (prześliczny blok betonowy po lewej stronie). Widać grupę ludzi wchodzącą na stację lekko pochyłym tunelem z terminala i wyjścia na ulicę


2. Tunel z peronu (nieco pod górkę) . Na końcu tunelu można skręcić w prawo do terminala, lub iść dalej prosto by schodami wyjść na ulicę.
Zadziwiający jest brak reklam.... Tyle zmarnowanej powierzchni na ścianach:-))


3. Zdjęcie zrobione z końca tunelu ze zdjęcia nr. 2.
Po lewej stronie są (niewidoczne na zdjęciu) schody na poziom ulicy.
Na wprost korytarz do terminala. Korytarz po prawej (pokazany na nr. 2) prowadzi na peron.


4. Zdjęcie zrobione z tego samego miejsca co nr. 3, ale w drugą stronę.
Tunel do terminala (patrząc w kierunku terminala). Znowu nie ma reklam...


5. Schody i windy do terminala, na drugim końcu tunelu ze zdjecia nr. 4.

6. Zdjęcie zrobione z tego samego miejsca co nr. 5, tylko w drugą stronę (czyli schody sa za plecami). Na ścianie informacje o pociagach i komunikacji miejskiej w Warszawie.


7. Zejście z terminala 1 do tunelu prowadzącego do stacji (czyli to co jest na górze zdjęcia nr. 5)




I jeszcze od drugiego końca, czyli od ulicy.

8. Budynek stacji, wejście z poziomu ulicy. Po prawej stronie narożnik terminala 1.


9. Hala dworcowa na poziomie ulicy. Widoczne schody ruchome i zwykłe oraz windy. Jak zejdziemy/zjedziemy na dól, to jesteśmy w miejscu pokazanym na zdjęciu nr. 3.
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Last edited by Petr; June 2nd, 2015 at 06:03 PM.
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Old June 2nd, 2015, 06:20 PM   #1171
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Quote:
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You have a great imagination and foresight. Unfortunately European Commission lacks these virtues.
So the EU is to blame for this 2-year metro construction 'tea break'?
I think you should just stick to posting pics.
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Old June 2nd, 2015, 06:41 PM   #1172
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You should blame Warsaw's too short financial blanket and the Public Finance Act which forbids local governments borrowing over 60% of the local budget, my dear Sherlock.
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Old June 2nd, 2015, 07:13 PM   #1173
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An EU bridge loan can be arranged by developers to carry a project while permit approval is sought. It does not matter if there is no guarantee the project will happen (because the first part of the development already has been completed), so interest rates on loans will not be adjusted.

A construction loan would then be obtained to take out the bridge loan and fund completion of the project which would be reimbursed by the EU during construction.

We call it financial planning - looking ahead and thinking how we can fund the project throughout its entirety, without long periods of stagnation between phases.
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Old June 2nd, 2015, 07:34 PM   #1174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petr View Post

You should blame Warsaw's too short financial blanket and the Public Finance Act which forbids local governments borrowing over 60% of the local budget, my dear Sherlock.
One more thing to blame is that "Janosikowe" tax for wealthier regions in Poland. In 2013 Warsaw had to pay 793mln PLN back to the budget of Poland!
I am pretty sure that these money went to such a "productive" branches like: farming or coal mining...
It doesn't change however that planning of second line of metro and securing it finances should be done better. It is a shame to stop construction and waste time in searching for solution here now.
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Old June 3rd, 2015, 07:04 PM   #1175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloganista View Post

An EU bridge loan can be arranged by developers to carry a project while permit approval is sought. It does not matter if there is no guarantee the project will happen (because the first part of the development already has been completed), so interest rates on loans will not be adjusted.

A construction loan would then be obtained to take out the bridge loan and fund completion of the project which would be reimbursed by the EU during construction.

We call it financial planning - looking ahead and thinking how we can fund the project throughout its entirety, without long periods of stagnation between phases.
Living aside Your speculations about the non existing EU bridge loans, since when EU refunds 100% of the investment costs? Besides how could a "central M2 part" project refund be dependent of next phases if their refinancing was uncertain before negotiations of the 2014-2020 EU Financial Framework?
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Old June 3rd, 2015, 07:19 PM   #1176
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The EU could have assisted in smoothing out cash flow difficulties for line 2 investment.
Their raison d'être is to help fund infrastructure projects in time-efficient ways, without long periods of stagnation in construction. The financial 'planning' for this project by local government is a fiasco.

Workers are now just picking their noses instead of using time productively by boring tunnels and constructing stations.
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Old June 3rd, 2015, 07:26 PM   #1177
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Quote:
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The EU could have assisted in smoothing cash flow difficulties for line 2 investment.
Their raison d'être is to help fund infrastructure projects in time-efficient ways.
It's just a theory. Pompous slogan.
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Old June 3rd, 2015, 07:36 PM   #1178
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OK then, I admit defeat and you were correct all along.
The EU does not exist to fund infrastructure projects to enable their completion in a time-efficient manner.
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Old June 3rd, 2015, 07:49 PM   #1179
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Surely it doesn't exist to refund infrastructure projects.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 01:26 AM   #1180
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Warsaw West station update:
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Originally Posted by mickam View Post
Jeden strzał z dzisiaj na wiatkę ;-)
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