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Old December 5th, 2015, 03:47 PM   #1341
Petr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakcancer View Post
Petr what are you trying to prove here? That Warsaw is too small or Poland is too big to build efficient metro in that city? Or it maybe doesn't deserve it because other cities don't have it? Look around. Every capital city of our neighbor countries with capital city over 1 milion in population has better metro network. No matter if is poorer or richer than Warsaw, to name it: Berlin, Prague, Kiev, Minsk. Each city started to build their system in different times but before Warsaw stared. That is why I didn't compare them to Warsaw in the first place. Instead I did it with Sofia, because they finished their first line around the same time like we did in Warsaw.
Such comparisons are senseless since situation in every country and every city is different. Financing of municipal project is different in each country too. Metro is for Warsaw one of many important matters and important expenses.
Besides one can say that in rich german cities like Frankfurt or Koeln don't have heavy metro too. So heavy metro isn't only possible solution for high capacity rapid transit in cities between 1-2 millions. Best solution is well integrated system consisting of metro, commuter rail, trams/LRT and buses. Proportions are debatable. Generalny the bigger city the more important role should play metro and commuter rail. Our commuter rail is rather well developed, and investments planned for years 2016-2022 yet improve it significantly.
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Old December 5th, 2015, 04:13 PM   #1342
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Guys, I just want to remind you that the metro in Sofia is still being build on the expenses of all other public transport services (bus, trolleys and trams), which are in a very poor condition and seriously under financed. Yes, Sofia starts construction of 12 new stations on M3 this year, but the tram infrastructure in Sofia is in a very poor state. As i can see from pictures, videos and forums comparison between Warsaw and Sofia is impossible since Warsaw is way ahead of Sofia on all fields, well maybe except for the metro. Also, Sofia is much poorer, I do not know the budget of Warsaw for 2016, but for Sofia it is just under 700 mil. euro, which is very little.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 05:47 PM   #1343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakcancer View Post
Oh boy... I don't want to get involve into immature black-white conversation what is better tram or metro.
Neither is 'better'. One may be more suitable than the other depending on the context.

Quote:
You totally missed my point giving some random examples from history of trams around the world.
No. you stated that the metro is THE automatic solution to Warsaw's transport needs and now your are trying to back-pedal away from your statement.

Quote:
Fact: Warsaw among big capital cities in Europe has undeveloped metro system.
It also has an underdeveloped tram system.

Quote:
There is actually one over 1 million capital city without metro in Europe - Belgrade. Till recently it was also Sofia but they started to build their metro system very quickly. First line, second and third in planning. At the same time in Warsaw we had and that is still going on, useless discussion what is better tram or metro....
One may be more suitable than the other depending on other circumstances which should be carefully considered before an investment is made.
The metro is NOT the automatic solution to all transport needs. Infact in some cases neither metro OR tram present feasible options.

Quote:
For the size of city like Warsaw not only by population by also by the area it is NO other CHOICE than reliable metro network which of course should be sealed by dense tram network. Building long tram lines itself that in near future will be not enough to serve population makes simply no sense.
Long tram routes make no sense? I think its you that's making no sense.

Quote:
Sooner or later it will be replaced by metro line just at higher cost because added cost of tram line.
Why would a tram line linking Gocław or Wilanów to the centre of Warsaw have to be eventually replaced by a metro line???
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Old December 7th, 2015, 06:02 PM   #1344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petr View Post
Generalny the bigger city the more important role should play metro and commuter rail.
No, the tram should play a role which is just as important as the metro, regardless of city size.
New York deeply regrets not introducing a streetcar system after the war just as London deeply regrets abandoning its tram system when it thought the metro could overtake the tram's role.
Your thinking is therefore very 1940s.

Quote:
Our commuter rail is rather well developed, and investments planned for years 2016-2022 yet improve it significantly.
You are peddling propoganda as usual. The rail system in Warsaw is certainly NOT well developed.
Foreigners may well believe your propoganda but not the locals living in Warsaw who know a lot better.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 06:58 PM   #1345
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Originally Posted by bloganista View Post
You are peddling propoganda as usual. The rail system in Warsaw is certainly NOT well developed.
Foreigners may well believe your propoganda but not the locals living in Warsaw who know a lot better.
I dare to disagree. Warsaw has underinvested, poorly used but dense rail network with double underground railway line through the centre - sth that other capitals like Stockholm or London have to build only now. Relatively small investements: modernisation and adding a few stations will change it into a very efficient system.
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Last edited by Petr; December 7th, 2015 at 07:07 PM.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 09:00 PM   #1346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloganista View Post
Neither is 'better'. One may be more suitable than the other depending on the context.



No. you stated that the metro is THE automatic solution to Warsaw's transport needs and now your are trying to back-pedal away from your statement.


It also has an underdeveloped tram system.


One may be more suitable than the other depending on other circumstances which should be carefully considered before an investment is made.
The metro is NOT the automatic solution to all transport needs. Infact in some cases neither metro OR tram present feasible options.


Long tram routes make no sense? I think its you that's making no sense.

Why would a tram line linking Gocław or Wilanów to the centre of Warsaw have to be eventually replaced by a metro line???
Judging from your very general responses with clearly no detailed supports of your opinions just NO-YES or WHY NOT answers you clearly don't like metro for some reason. Why? I have no clue, maybe you live in small town, maybe in the center of big one and just have two tram stops to work from home. I lived in Warsaw for many years and know how hard is to commute by bus or even tram. So, for that reason I think there is no point of further discussion here with someone rejecting all advantages of metro.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 10:49 PM   #1347
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Warsaw West Station is now opened:

http://warszawa.wyborcza.pl/warszawa...kas-pokoj.html













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Last edited by Petr; December 9th, 2015 at 11:18 PM.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 10:53 PM   #1348
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Old December 9th, 2015, 11:28 PM   #1349
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Old December 10th, 2015, 08:04 AM   #1350
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It's basically like a metro station with some big entrance.
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Old December 10th, 2015, 10:00 PM   #1351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluminat View Post
It's basically like a metro station with some big entrance.
It reminds me Canary Wharf underground or Postdamer Platz S-bahn.
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Old December 13th, 2015, 10:52 PM   #1352
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Various types of Tramwaje Warszawskie rolling stock:
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Originally Posted by esbek View Post
We wtorek przy cotygodniowej wizycie w stolicy, sfilmowałem trochę warszawskiego taboru. W pięciominutowym filmiku jest prawie cały przekrój warszawskiego taboru 105Na w różnych wersjach, 112N, 116N, Swingi, Jazzy i po raz pierwszy w moim filmie "szczeniaki".

Short Pesa Jazz:
Quote:
Originally Posted by swaveck View Post
Szczeniak z góry:

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Old December 16th, 2015, 04:31 PM   #1353
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Originally Posted by rakcancer View Post
Judging from your very general responses with clearly no detailed supports of your opinions just NO-YES or WHY NOT answers you clearly don't like metro for some reason. Why? I have no clue, maybe you live in small town, maybe in the center of big one and just have two tram stops to work from home. I lived in Warsaw for many years and know how hard is to commute by bus or even tram. So, for that reason I think there is no point of further discussion here with someone rejecting all advantages of metro.
I do not hate the metro although I realize it is not the be-all and end-all solution to Warsaw's transport needs. You think the metro is always the answer, and you are wrong.
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Old December 16th, 2015, 04:42 PM   #1354
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Originally Posted by Petr View Post
I dare to disagree. Warsaw has underinvested, poorly used but dense rail network with double underground railway line through the centre - sth that other capitals like Stockholm or London have to build only now. Relatively small investements: modernisation and adding a few stations will change it into a very efficient system.
Why don't you post us loads of pictures of the redeveloped Dworzec Centralny station,
or are you worried this may interfere with the ideal picture you paint of Warsaw's transport system?
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Old December 16th, 2015, 07:10 PM   #1355
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Originally Posted by Andrej_LJ View Post
Guys, I just want to remind you that the metro in Sofia is still being build on the expenses of all other public transport services (bus, trolleys and trams),
This is somewhat OT here, but I´m not sure if metro-construction in Sofia started in the 90s. From what I know, official start was at the culture-palast back in 1976, whereas this section was not part of the first opened stretch. But even the first part of Sofia-metro which went in service must had a start of construction already back in the 1979, planned opening date 1986 (according to Lexikon der Metros der Welt-transpress 1990)

Coming back to Warsaw it could be said, that both cities really started construction in advanced stage in the 90s. Therefore it does not matter if opening was 1995,1998...

Mostly different is the role both cities play in their country. Sofia is the capital in a central-country like Austria, France. Warsaw always suffered from a certain jealousy of other polish cities. So many infrastructure-projects had to be paid with Warsaw city-credits, no federal budget.

Warsaw generates 25% of GDP in Poland but Poland obviously is ruled in a more poly-central way than Bulgaria (which is reasonal anyway). So besides Warsaw new tram-lines opening all over the country, which is necessary.

Kind regards

Last edited by tunnel owl; December 16th, 2015 at 07:17 PM.
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Old December 16th, 2015, 08:30 PM   #1356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloganista View Post
Why don't you post us loads of pictures of the redeveloped Dworzec Centralny station,
or are you worried this may interfere with the ideal picture you paint of Warsaw's transport system?
I do not see any connection.

BTW Warszawa Centralna is dedicated for long distance trains, not local traffic.
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Old December 16th, 2015, 09:38 PM   #1357
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Besides Warszawa Centralna is being renovated at the moment. Everybody will have a chance to judge effect of the renovation after its completion:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cane90 View Post
Wspomnienie ostatnich, weekendowych wydarzeń, czyli 40 urodziny dworca Warszawa Centralna.

40 lat minęło...


Na początek wydarzenia związane z jubileuszem. Na pierwszy ogień spacer z przewodnikiem po dworcu.


Wracamy na ziemię, tj. antresolę. Rzut oka na słuchawki i prawie gotowe siedziska.


Antresola zyskała balustrady. IMO przęsła są zbyt krótkie, powinny być zdecydowanie dwukrotnie dłuższe.


Schody jednak białe.


Lampki, LEDy, bajery...


Cdn ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cane90 View Post
Galeria zachodnia.


Docelowe panele ścienne przy (nie)ruchomej pochylni.


Dojście do WKD.
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Last edited by Petr; December 16th, 2015 at 09:51 PM.
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Old December 16th, 2015, 09:40 PM   #1358
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...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cane90 View Post
Stara Mydlarnia otwarta, Paul się urządza, dalej będzie kiosk Ruch.


PKP IC dostosowało tło swojego logo,...


...podobnie, jaki i Rossmann. Ciekawe, co na to autorzy znaku towarowego? Z jednej strony widać jakieś minimalne kroki w kierunku ujednolicenia przestrzeni reklamowej, a z drugiej niedługo pewnie wrócą szmaty na elewację - nie ogarniam...


Schody ruchome zamontowane, trwa instalacji prefabrykowanych stopni.


Widoki pod antresolą.


Rzut oka w kierunku antresoli zachodniej.


Spójność form, kształtów, kolorów i faktur...


Jeszcze jedno spojrzenie na nową antresolę.


Przechodzimy do podziemi. Galeria północna - widok w kierunku zachodniej.


Cdn ...
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MIĘDZY CZARNYM i CZERWONYM...
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Old December 17th, 2015, 10:46 PM   #1359
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More views of Warszawa Centralna after renovation:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kafarek View Post
1

IMG_7123
by Robert Frw, on Flickr

2
IMG_7200 by Robert Frw, on Flickr

3
IMG_7197 by Robert Frw, on Flickr

4
IMG_7189 by Robert Frw, on Flickr

5
IMG_7186 by Robert Frw, on Flickr

6
IMG_7171 by Robert Frw, on Flickr

7
IMG_7161 by Robert Frw, on Flickr

8
IMG_7147 by Robert Frw, on Flickr

9
IMG_7144 by Robert Frw, on Flickr
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MIĘDZY CZARNYM i CZERWONYM...
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Old December 18th, 2015, 12:21 AM   #1360
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More views of Warszawa Zachodnia:
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Originally Posted by Sławek View Post
Część europejska dworca Zachodni




























Dziękuję

btw to na górze, ten żyrandol, to głośnik jest.
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