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Old December 18th, 2015, 09:07 PM   #841
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From Rail Journal:

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http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...tml?channel=00

Montreal seeks new commuter trains and operator
Friday, December 18, 2015



MONTREAL's Metropolitan Transport Agency (AMT) has launched two tenders, one for additional cars and the other for a contract to operate the commuter rail network and maintain its entire fleet

AMT plans to award the contract for the new cars next summer with a view to receiving the first car by spring or summer 2017. AMT does not specify how many and what type of cars it requires other than that they are needed to expand its fleet

...
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Old December 19th, 2015, 09:09 AM   #842
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Yes, you are forgetting that Toronto {as I am more familiar with it} also has a 500km commuter rail system on top of it's subway.

Transit ridership in Canada is higher than Australia's.
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Old December 19th, 2015, 12:37 PM   #843
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I'm guessing the 1.25 million/per day figure is taken from APTA which states that they use unlinked trips? APTA reports that the Toronto subway's daily ridership is about 1.1 million/per day whereas if I go to the TTC website it's 915,000 daily riders by fares collected for subway+streetcar combined. Is there a similar figure for Montreal?

Sydney Trains counts its figures by either station entries/exits or ticket sales and in their documentation they state that interchanges are not counted, and iirc it's generally the same for Melbourne. Either way I'm guessing different methodologies used by different agencies can produce results that vary a bit. There's some very comprehensive documentation online describing the methodologies used by Sydney Trains, so if there's anything similar for any of Canada's agencies I'd be interested.

However I won't agree with what ninaH said as well. Australia's hardly a model for transport, it's a car dominated country and most of its rail networks are legacy systems dating back to the 19th century that's been upgraded over time.

One thing I like about Canada's transit systems is that while subway coverage is rather small by comparison there's an extensive network of bus feeders which extends the frequent service coverage. Otoh with the exception of Perth, Australia's transport planning traditionally placed an emphasis on single seat journeys (avoid interchanges at all costs). The result is that bus networks at times aren't as optimised to provide efficient feeder services to train stations as they could be, and some bus routes compete with trains rather than serving them. In Sydney even with the new Opal ticketing system there's still a fare penalty for transferring between different transport modes (though there's currently a fare structure review which is due early next year). I think patronage for both buses and trains will rise considerably if they eliminate the fare penalty and restructure the bus network.

Last edited by nameless dude; December 19th, 2015 at 03:43 PM.
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Old December 19th, 2015, 08:47 PM   #844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nameless dude View Post
I'm guessing the 1.25 million/per day figure is taken from APTA which states that they use unlinked trips? APTA reports that the Toronto subway's daily ridership is about 1.1 million/per day whereas if I go to the TTC website it's 915,000 daily riders by fares collected for subway+streetcar combined. Is there a similar figure for Montreal?

Sydney Trains counts its figures by either station entries/exits or ticket sales and in their documentation they state that interchanges are not counted, and iirc it's generally the same for Melbourne. Either way I'm guessing different methodologies used by different agencies can produce results that vary a bit. There's some very comprehensive documentation online describing the methodologies used by Sydney Trains, so if there's anything similar for any of Canada's agencies I'd be interested.
I'm not sure where on the TTC website you're seeing that. The most recent subway ridership report which contains nothing about streetcars or buses clearly shows different.

https://www.ttc.ca/PDF/Transit_Plann...rship_2014.pdf

The Yonge line alone has ridership of 746,240, and the Bloor line has 535,600. Of course the total subway ridership of about a million is less than the combined total of the two, since there are people who transfer from one line to the other. But there's no way the total subway system and streetcars combined is only 915,000 when we know the Yonge line alone has 746,240 which as the ridership begin for a single line, obviously doesn't include any transfers, and the streetcar system by itself is 291,000 which doesn't include any bus or subway transfers. And I don't think it's very common to transfer from one streetcar route to another.

It's not surprising that the TTC subway would have more riders than a commuter rail system in a smaller city. Outside of Japan, Metro systems tend to have higher ridership than commuter rail anyway; this is the norm, rather than the exception. And Canadian cities have a higher transit modal share than in Australian. The TTC's total riderhship is 2.76 million, which does include unlinked trips with many people transfering to subway from bus or streetcar. It's not surprising that a large percentage would be using the system's backbone routes.
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Old December 20th, 2015, 03:27 AM   #845
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I took those numbers straight out of the TTC website (under quick system facts).

https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Ope...ection_One.jsp

The TTC's total ridership is 2.7 million only if you include transfers. Without it it's 1.69 million.

I suspect one reason is because looking at Canada's systems they seem to be very heavily focused on interchanges. In Toronto it seems that passengers on the Bloor line and the two other spur lines would have to transfer at least once to reach most destinations within downtown (and perhaps passengers on the the upper western section of the Yonge line might at times have to as well?). It seems to be the same story for Montreal as well, people on the blue line and the yellow spur would have to change at least once to get to most destinations within downtown, and I'm guessing there would be some interchanging between the green and orange lines to get to stations within downtown.

Mode share of journeys to work as of 2011 is actually the same for Sydney and Toronto's CMA (23.3%). Note that the figure for Sydney includes the Blue Mountains and Central Coast as well (look them up on Google earth).

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...6&postcount=36

I wouldn't get too hung up on different transport modes. What matters is the level of service, not the mode of transport and in Australia rail systems essentially serve like a metro along the busier corridors.

And are there any detailed explanations for the TTC or STM's methodologies similar to what you can find here with Sydney Trains?

http://www.bts.nsw.gov.au/ArticleDoc...sheet.pdf.aspx (pages 3 and 4)

http://www.bts.nsw.gov.au/ArticleDoc...ation.pdf.aspx

The best I can seem to find is a vague single sentence for the TTC. Looking at the figures, it would seem that the Yonge line would be busier than the MTR's Kwun Tong line in Hong Kong and as busy as the MTR's Island line only 5-6 years ago. Hong Kong's population density is insane and the mode share for all motorised trips, not just journeys to work iirc sits above 80%.

Last edited by nameless dude; December 20th, 2015 at 04:45 AM.
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Old December 20th, 2015, 07:19 AM   #846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nameless dude View Post
I took those numbers straight out of the TTC website (under quick system facts).

https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Ope...ection_One.jsp

The TTC's total ridership is 2.7 million only if you include transfers. Without it it's 1.69 million.

I suspect one reason is because looking at Canada's systems they seem to be very heavily focused on interchanges. In Toronto it seems that passengers on the Bloor line and the two other spur lines would have to transfer at least once to reach most destinations within downtown (and perhaps passengers on the the upper western section of the Yonge line might at times have to as well?). It seems to be the same story for Montreal as well, people on the blue line and the yellow spur would have to change at least once to get to most destinations within downtown, and I'm guessing there would be some interchanging between the green and orange lines to get to stations within downtown.

...

I wouldn't get too hung up on different transport modes. What matters is the level of service, not the mode of transport and in Australia rail systems essentially serve like a metro along the busier corridors.

And are there any detailed explanations for the TTC or STM's methodologies similar to what you can find here with Sydney Trains?

http://www.bts.nsw.gov.au/ArticleDoc...sheet.pdf.aspx (pages 3 and 4)

http://www.bts.nsw.gov.au/ArticleDoc...ation.pdf.aspx

The best I can seem to find is a vague single sentence for the TTC. Looking at the figures, it would seem that the Yonge line would be busier than the MTR's Kwun Tong line in Hong Kong and as busy as the MTR's Island line only 5-6 years ago. Hong Kong's population density is insane and the mode share for all motorised trips, not just journeys to work iirc sits above 80%.
If you want to actually understand how many people are using a system and are confused by different methodologies such as linked vs unlinked trips, looking at mode share is really the only foolproof way to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nameless dude View Post
Mode share of journeys to work as of 2011 is actually the same for Sydney and Toronto's CMA (23.3%). Note that the figure for Sydney includes the Blue Mountains and Central Coast as well (look them up on Google earth).

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...6&postcount=36
Am I missing something here? In the post you linked to, you're not actually saying what you're saying you said. From what I'm reading, it says the modeshare in greater Sydney is 11%, and it's only greater Toronto that it's at 23.3%.
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Old December 20th, 2015, 12:48 PM   #847
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True. Thing is when personally I like to leave a bit of a margin for inconsistencies when comparing figures straight out of different agencies because of that. Interesting that if you took the figures from Sydney Trains 5 years ago they would have all been higher, though obviously the revised figures should be the more reliable but it goes to show how a simple methodology change can alter things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Am I missing something here? In the post you linked to, you're not actually saying what you're saying you said. From what I'm reading, it says the modeshare in greater Sydney is 11%, and it's only greater Toronto that it's at 23.3%.
I assume you're referring to the first link in that post. If you take a look at that link it refers to mode share of all trips made in the city, trips for work, shopping, leisure, walking, wherever people are going etc. That link took the entire urban areas in Sydney and Melbourne's case but only the city proper for the North American cities so it's not directly comparable. I suppose it's another reminder that you have to be mindful of different parameters when making comparisons like these. The first page in that link is telling you just that.

In fact there's a paragraph in that page that relates to what I'm saying so I'll copy that here, just for the sake of it:
Quote:
Comparing passenger transport mode share across different cities is a challenging task. As travel surveys are typically conducted for long-term strategic planning purpose, such surveys are not conducted frequently and detailed reports are not always published. The situation is further complicated as the surveys are often commissioned by local governments. The geographical areas covered, sampling and interviewing techniques, questionnaire and stratification methods deployed by travel surveys vary greatly in different countries.
The figure I was referring to was for mode share for journeys to work only. From the graph I posted and the statcan link it would seem that as of 2011 the mode share for commutes to work in Toronto's CMA and Sydney's GCCSA (which includes the Blue Mountains and the Central Coast) is both at 23.3%.

Anyways I tend to feel that transport in Canadian and the larger Australian cities tend to be more or less on a similar level (though obviously it's subjective). An interesting difference is that Canadian systems tend to place an emphasis on interchanges while most Australian systems have traditionally tried to avoid it where possible (though that trend is evidently reversing), which I think that has hampered the efficiency of those Australian systems a bit. Canada's done a lot of things right, so I suppose we can certainly take a lesson or two from Canada when it comes to that.
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Last edited by nameless dude; December 21st, 2015 at 09:03 AM.
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Old December 20th, 2015, 01:34 PM   #848
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninaH View Post
no offence, but the infrastructure of public transport in Canada looks terrible. I live in Australia and the trains, trams and buses are more modern than the ones in TO and Montreal. Also I read that the metro in MO has less than 70 stations and in Toronto this amount is less than that. In Sydney, our system has more than 100 train stations, same in Melbourne. Why is that?. My friend in Toronto also complains about the public transport over there. Is it maybe, because people in North america use more cars than public transport?. I would like to go to move to Canada for six months. But I cannot imagine to be waiting for a bus or train in -25 degrees. It is ironic that such a deficient system exists in a wealthy country like Canada.
wat? Public transport infrastructure is far better in Canada than Australia. Not sure if you're 10 years old but as well as Montreal's and Toronto's subway is a suburban commuter train system
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Old December 20th, 2015, 10:42 PM   #849
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I'm not sure about Montreal but the last figures I saw Melbourne had higher rail patronage per capita than Toronto and Sydney had less.

Both Montreal and Toronto have higher public transport patronage overall though due to having far higher bus patronage.
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Old January 28th, 2016, 08:00 AM   #850
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Laval, QC has introduced a new bus line connecting the Montmorency station (Orange Line terminus) to the business district.

http://www.stl.laval.qc.ca/en/schedu...-2016-changes/
http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases...565773711.html

The bus will run only on weekends until June 25, when it changes to 7-day operation through August 26.

http://www.stl.laval.qc.ca/en/schedu...-2016-changes/

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Old February 8th, 2016, 07:25 AM   #851
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Old March 4th, 2016, 01:08 PM   #852
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YES! Finally!

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Old March 8th, 2016, 05:34 PM   #853
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Construction on a new station on the AMT Candiac line (Gare du Canal Lachine) is expected to begin spring 2016.

http://montrealgazette.com/news/loca...rt-this-spring
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Old March 24th, 2016, 03:54 AM   #854
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The latest news on Montreal's light-rail plans

http://montrealgazette.com/news/loca...y-on-in-secret
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Old April 17th, 2016, 06:13 PM   #855
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So, Um, yeah, this was posted online recently:-

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Old April 23rd, 2016, 03:53 PM   #856
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REM - Réseau Électrique Métropolitain

A new project by La Caisse de Dépôt et Placement du Québec,

Once completed, the REM will be the third largest automated transportation system in the world after Dubai (80 km) and Vancouver (68 km), and just ahead of Singapore (65 km). For the metropolitan area, the REM also represents the largest public transportation infrastructure since the Montréal metro, inaugurated in 1966. Combined with existing transportation networks (metro, trains and buses), the REM opens a new era of public transit development in the Greater Montréal area.








http://cdpqinfra.com/en/metropolitan-power-grid
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Old April 23rd, 2016, 03:57 PM   #857
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MONTRÉAL, April 22, 2016 /CNW Telbec/ - CDPQ Infra, a subsidiary of Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec, unveiled plans today for its Réseau électrique métropolitain (REM), an integrated, world-class public transportation project. Launched 288 days after the creation of CDPQ Infra, the proposal marks the beginning of a series of consultations to be held over the next few months with stakeholder groups and interested citizens.

As proposed, the REM will link downtown Montréal, the South Shore, the West Island (Sainte-Anne-de-Bellevue), the North Shore (Deux-Montagnes) and the airport in a unified, fully automated, 67-km light rail transit (LRT) system comprising 24 stations and operating 20 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Once completed, the REM will be the third largest automated transportation system in the world after Dubai (80 km) and Vancouver (68 km), and just ahead of Singapore (65 km). For the metropolitan area, the REM also represents the largest public transportation infrastructure since the Montréal metro, inaugurated in 1966. Combined with existing transportation networks (metro, trains and buses), the REM opens a new era of public transit development in the Greater Montréal area.

The solution proposed by CDPQ Infra will:
offer an integrated, efficient and reliable service
constitute Québec's first "public-public" partnership project
build a new network of strategic importance for the Greater Montréal area and for Québec
foster environmentally sustainable transportation

Integrated, efficient and reliable service

As a single, integrated transportation network, the REM will offer a number of efficient travel options in the Greater Montréal area. Connections between the new network and existing bus, metro and train systems have also been designed to simplify itineraries.

With frequent and reliable service running from 5:00 am to 1:00 am – 20 hours a day, every day – the REM represents a new paradigm and significant time savings for commuters in the metropolitan region. The decision to use dedicated tracks will allow for quick and uninterrupted travel, and passengers will have Wi-Fi connectivity and access to live status updates.

New stations will be integrated into their urban environment and designed to allow easy access for pedestrians, bicycles, cars and buses. All stations will be covered, climate-controlled, equipped with elevators, and will meet the principles of universal access.

Finally, by choosing the Highway 40 route to the West Island, the project allows for the creation of a dedicated corridor for public transportation, without the need to share tracks with freight trains.

Public-public model

The project aims to reinforce the dynamism of the Montréal economy. It demonstrates the potential of CDPQ Infra's public-public partnership model. While improving people's daily lives, the REM will generate stable returns for la Caisse and its clients.

"Today we are proposing an innovative public transit solution that will improve the quality of life in Montréal and deliver important economic, social and environmental benefits. It will improve the metropolitan region's overall competitiveness," said Michael Sabia, President and Chief Executive Officer of la Caisse. "The new transit system will also deliver long-term, stable investment returns very well aligned with the needs of our depositors, the people of Québec."

"As such, this project is perfectly in line with our overall strategy and with our approach to investing in Québec – focused as it is on the development of high-impact, commercially sound projects. Every time passengers use their new transit system, they will be helping to secure their future retirement. This virtuous circle serves as a good illustration of the principle underlying the public-public partnership model," added Mr. Sabia.

"Nine months after the launch of CDPQ Infra, we are taking another important step," said Macky Tall, President and Chief Executive Officer, CDPQ Infra. "Much work remains to be done, but today we are unveiling a state-of-the-art solution. With highly frequent service, 20 hours a day, universal access and Wi-Fi available throughout the network, the REM promises to improve the daily commute of hundreds of thousands of people. We are committed to delivering the project on-time and on-budget."

A network of strategic importance for the metropolitan area and for Québec

The new network represents an investment of approximately $5.5 billion. La Caisse is willing to commit $3 billion to the project. The proposed financial structure also requires investments by the governments of Québec and Canada.

"A network as significant as the one we are proposing could potentially add more than $3 billion to the Québec GDP over four years. We also expect close to $5 billion in private real estate developments along the chosen route," said Christian Dubé, Executive Vice-President, Québec at la Caisse. "Such economic benefits clearly show that la Caisse's return objectives go hand-in-hand with Québec's economic development."

The new network will generate approximately 7,500 direct and indirect jobs annually during the 4-year construction phase, and more than 1,000 permanent jobs once in operation.

The plan also includes reserve capacity to meet future needs, with five potential stations envisioned for areas such as McGill University and Université de Montréal. The proposed route will also go through areas with high economic development potential, including the airport, Technoparc St-Laurent, Université de Montréal, the Peel Basin and the Wellington-Bridge area.

Fostering sustainable transportation

The new network will be efficient, accessible and well-connected to existing transit systems, encouraging the use of electric public transportation in five key areas of the metropolitan region.

The REM could thus help reduce GHG emissions by 16,800 tonnes annually and accelerate Québec's transition to a low-carbon economy. At the same time, this new public transit system could reduce economic losses associated with traffic congestion, currently estimated at $1.4 billion annually in the Greater Montréal area.

Next steps and conditions for success

The decision to move forward with the construction of this major public transportation project is conditional upon the financial participation of the governments of Québec and Canada, which forms an integral part of the proposed financial structure.

CDPQ Infra will begin a consultation process with various stakeholders in the coming weeks. Information and discussion sessions will also be organized for the general public in all areas affected by this extensive new network. CDPQ Infra is committed to providing open, regular and timely communications through each phase of the project.

CDPQ Infra plans to submit this project to the environmental impact public hearing (BAPE) process at the end of the summer of 2016.

CDPQ Infra is committed to rigorously managing the procurement process by issuing open and transparent international calls for tenders. This process will be based on global best practices for efficiency and transparency.

If all these steps are taken successfully, construction is currently expected to begin in the spring of 2017, so that the first trains can be in service towards the end of 2020.

For more information, citizens are encouraged to consult the new Project section in the CDPQ Infra website: cdpqinfra.com

http://montrealgazette.com/news/loca...nd-south-shore


And a short video :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKtMltNRgcg
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Old April 23rd, 2016, 10:39 PM   #858
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Of course, they couldn't call it "RER" because that would have involved surrendering Quebec sovereignty to Paris and/or Toronto.
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Old April 24th, 2016, 01:28 AM   #859
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which are of course the arch nemesis's of Montreal - the overlord cities of their language and country. :P
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Old April 24th, 2016, 02:35 AM   #860
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Two stupid comments.
Toronto is not Montreal's overlord.
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