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Old January 3rd, 2006, 07:53 PM   #41
mic of Orion
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resently Zagreb has only 58km of double tram tracks, line length is about 180km, I understand in 1924 (height of Zagreb Tram, Network) Zagreb had 20 tram lines and almost 60km of tram tracks laid..

4 new tram lines are planed, will add additional 25km of tram tracks and about 70km of line length...

Presently:

Length of tracks 58.5km
Length of Routes - 180km

ZET Stock

45 German Duwag Trams - Entered service in 1990's
90 Tatra T4 Trams (will be retired in late 2006) Entered service in 1970's
50 Tatra T4KY Articulated Trams Entered service in 1985
17 TMK2100 Koncar Articulated Trams Entered service in 1990's
170 TMK 2200 Cro-Tram low Floor Trams (10 thus far in service) - new
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Old January 3rd, 2006, 08:12 PM   #42
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^ would you mean more than 60km in 1924, as that sounds a little low?
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Old January 3rd, 2006, 08:34 PM   #43
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yeah more than 60km, but I don't know how much, many lines where torn down as city grew... But there are plans few new lines 4 by 2008 and 1 or more after, in all by 2010 Zagreb should have about 88.7kk or tram tracks in service, about 20 tram lines, length of routes well over 200km... But Zagreb has huge plans for metro or underground light rail system, depends on funds and transport study which is being done right now... But in 20's past century Zagreb had extensive tram system, almost every street had a tram and trams even went as far as suburbia.
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Old January 3rd, 2006, 09:07 PM   #44
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Vienna in 1943:
732 million passengers per year
18,000 employees
4000 cars

I haven´t found anything about route length in this year, but the network reached its max track length - 292km - between WWI and II.

Map from 1913 (numbers are trains per day):
http://www.tramway.at/plaene/1913-xx..._Belastung.gif
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Old January 3rd, 2006, 09:08 PM   #45
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Some awesome numbers from berlin:

In the year 1929 berlin had a track-length of ca. 650 km and a line length of 1.686 km with "93" lines!!

There were 4000 trains and 14.400 people worked for it!
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Old January 4th, 2006, 12:49 AM   #46
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nice one
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Old January 4th, 2006, 05:50 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkth
Bangkok Trams (1894-1968) within 2bangkok.com website.
Bangkok
The total distance (Lines 1 through 7): 42 km
Pak Nam Railway: 21 km
Total Distance of electric mass transit line: 63 km

A tram car was 2 x 8 meters and driven by 40-60 HP motor. The local made trams were made from teak instead of aluminum as in the imported version. (from Lokbaimai Environmental Monthly Magazine - Vol. 8 No.87, Sept, 1996)

Have a look at the above link for more interesting info
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Old January 13th, 2006, 08:27 PM   #48
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Minneapolis/St. Paul in the U.S. once had 444 miles (720 km) of streetcar lines running through the city.

A map of the line in 1917:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/briand...tm/1917map.htm

The last streetcars operated in 1954. The Hiawatha light rail line, which opened in 2004, marked the return of rail to the Twin Cities, and is about 18 km long.
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Old January 13th, 2006, 11:43 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clashman
Minneapolis/St. Paul in the U.S. once had 444 miles (720 km) of streetcar lines running through the city.

A map of the line in 1917:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/briand...tm/1917map.htm

The last streetcars operated in 1954. The Hiawatha light rail line, which opened in 2004, marked the return of rail to the Twin Cities, and is about 18 km long.
That's fantastic. One question though, is it route km of track km that is 720km?

This page on the site you provided suggests it was track milage (see 1916 note). Natually, this makes a big difference when comparing with the route milage used by other forumers on this thread.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/briand...tm/chronol.htm
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Old January 14th, 2006, 12:46 AM   #50
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here is interesting maps of moscow tram network in 1931 and in 1938
almost all city was covered by tram lines, unlike now...
http://tram.ruz.net/maps/sh19311016.gif
http://tram.ruz.net/maps/sh19381200.gif
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Old January 14th, 2006, 06:31 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme
That's fantastic. One question though, is it route km of track km that is 720km?

This page on the site you provided suggests it was track milage (see 1916 note). Natually, this makes a big difference when comparing with the route milage used by other forumers on this thread.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/briand...tm/chronol.htm
Can you explain the difference to me?
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Old January 14th, 2006, 06:52 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clashman
Can you explain the difference to me?
Route or track km:

Say you have 10 km separating point A and B

1) Route length: 10 km


2) Track km:

If double tracked: 20 km

If triple tracked: 30 km.

etc.
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Old January 14th, 2006, 07:45 AM   #53
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The Metro Manila LRT System— A Historical Perspective

Arrival of the tranvia


This is a document about a planned project of a construction of railway and ship in Manila and Malabon (1758)


Puente de España, Manila, Filipinas

In 1878, Leon Monssour, an official of the Department of Public Works, submitted a proposal to Madrid for a streetcar system. Apparently inspired by the systems in New York and Paris, Monssour envisioned a five-line network with a central station outside the walls of Intramuros, the fortress-like seat of Spanish power in the Philippines. From Plaza San Gabriel in Binondo, the lines were to run to Intramuros via the Puente de España (today's Jones Bridge), to Malate Church, Malacañang (where the Philippine President now lives and works), and Sampaloc and Tondo, large districts north of the Pasig River today. The proposal found favor with the government, but it had to wait for an entrepreneur's initiative.


Compaña de los Tranvias de Filipinas

That entrepreneur was Jocobo Zobel de Zangroniz. Together with Spanish engineer Luciano M. Bremon and Madrid banker Adolfo Bayo, in 1882, the three formed La Compañia de tranvias de Filipinas to operate the concession awarded by the government. The Malacañang Line was not built and was replaced by the Malabon Line. These five routes became popular with commuters. The Manila-Malabon Line was the first to be finished, opening for business on 20 October 1888. All five were constructed between 1885 and 1889. The first tranvias were horse-drawn omnibuses for 12 seated and 8 standing passengers. The system was 16.3-km long—slightly longer than today's only operating LRT line.



Escolta, Main Buisness Center of Manila: horse-drawn

While four lines were horse-drawn, the Malabon ran on steam. Some 4 years later, the Manila Railroad Company, the country's first long-distance rail line north to Dagupan, 196 km away, started operation. So strictly speaking, the first steam railroad in the islands was a modest streetcar! Malabon's transfer points were Tondo, Maypajo, a working-class neighborhood in the suburb of Caloocan and Dulu, at the north end of that community.


Calle Escolta (1911)

The long communication line between Madrid and Manila, plus much delayed economic reforms, conspired to slow development of the Philippines, particularly Luzon, the archipelago's largest island. While other countries were in the throes of the Industrial Revolution and the wave of mercantilism, Spain lagged behind. As early as 1842, a study mission headed by Don Sinibaldo de Mas came to the Philippines to find the best way to carry out reforms—reforms later promoted by Filipinos like Dr Jose Rizal and his contemporaries, known collectively as the Propagandists.

The 1890s were turbulent years for the Spanish colony. The clamored-for reforms prompted Rizal to pen two novels, Noli Me Tangere and El Filibusterismo, required reading in schools today. Though fiction, the stories were too close to the truth for the Spanish to tolerate. Eventually, Rizal was charged with sedition and executed in 1896—four years after the Manila-Dagupan railroad was completed. Less than 18 months later, Filipinos declared their independence from Spain. The revolution to assert that claim soon followed.

New Colonizers


Paseo de Bagumbayan

Meanwhile, the Americans were also at war with Spain. After winning the conflict and claiming the Philippines under the Treaty of Paris, US forces soon arrived. Early in 1899, war (some called it an insurrection) between the Filipinos and the Americans broke out. The Spanish imprint was already etched indelibly on the Philippine landscape, and by the turn of the century, an air of uncertainty characterized everyday conversation as Filipinos wondered what life would be like under the new colonizers.

Transition for tranvia


Manila streetcar, early 1900s

By 1902, La Compañia had long since stopped expanding or improving its system. An average of only 10 streetcars plied the five lines daily. This was a far cry from the hourly service that provided 14 runs in each direction on the Malabon Line alone.

One year later, Manila city officials blamed slow economic growth and population congestion to ‘the antiquated horse-car system and the poorly constructed, unsatisfactory, and generally undesirable system of public vehicles,’ to quote from their official report. These leaders reasoned that with improved transport, the railroad was specifically named, ‘many of those now paying high rents for small and unhealthy quarters will take advantage of this quick transportation and secure comfortable dwellings in better localities.’

Birth of Electric Streetcar




Calle Escolta de Manila

The Philippine Commission on 20 October 1902 passed a law that set into motion franchises to be awarded to bidders for the construction and operation of electric power and transportation networks. Although publicized in newspapers in America and the Philippines as well as in a leading US railway journal, only one bid was submitted. On 24 March 1903, the Municipal Board of Manila passed Ordinance 44, accepting the bid of Charles M. Swift of Detroit. Three days later, a New Jersey company was established which eventually became the Manila Electric Railroad and Light Company—better known as Meralco. Today, Meralco is still in the electric power business in Metro Manila and neighboring provinces. Later, the Philippine Commission allowed Meralco to take over the properties of La Compañia de tranvias. Meralco paid a small fee for its streetcars to La Compañia's lines.

Swift was now under a deadline. He had 6 months to start building his systems and 20 months to get the job done. Ordinance 44 specified 12 lines. Today's LRT Line 1 closely follows the Meralco route to Pasay south of Manila and the Santa Cruz route . LRT Line 2, now under construction, also adheres fairly well to the original lines Meralco laid down. With the exception of the Binondo and Intramuros areas, the network was double-tracked and powered by an overhead catenary of 500 V maximum. The track was standard gauge.

By 1913, Meralco had completed nine of the 12 lines, still called the tranvia by commuters. Swift under another franchise granted in 1906, was also operating a 9.8-km extension line from Paco to Fort McKinley and Pasig. The operator, the Manila Suburban Railway, later merged in 1919 to form the Manila Electric Company. The extension line was one of the most profitable in the Meralco system.

Meralco's lines crossed the Manila Railroad Company's lines (now the Philippine National Railways (PNR)) at three points. Sometimes, I go to Blumentritt Station on the LRT just to see a PNR commuter train crawl directly under the elevated track as I wait for an LRT train to approach its station of the same name, 5 or so meters above. LRT Line 2 will cross the PNR at Santa Mesa in another repeat of history. The Santa Ana tranvia crossed not far from today's PNR Paco Station, currently under renovation.

Dr Leonardo Q. Liongson, Engineering Professor at the University of the Philippines, and railroad enthusiast, made an astute observation in a paper he presented last January: ‘It is also interesting to note from the 1913 (route) map that the three principal tranvia lines (Santa Cruz, Santa Mesa and Santa Ana) led directly to outlying cockpits in suburban La Loma, San Juan and San Pedro de Macati respectively.’ Cockfighting was and still is a popular form of gambling. He concluded, ‘From the point of view of city-wide commuter service, commerce and cockfighting, the Manila electric tranvia was indeed a complete system serving the city by the end of the first decade of the 20th century.’

As the road network improved, Meralco introduced electric- and gasoline-powered bus services in the 1930s. The company also promoted the use of electric appliances such as radios and refrigerators. The tranvia continued running but stopped expanding.

Photos here: http://www.jrtr.net/jrtr16/pdf/f33_satre.pdf
More in the Philippine archives.

---



In 1905, Manila's first tranvia, or tram, opened in Manila and soon grew to five lines servicing many parts of the city of Manila and its outskirts. At that time, the trams were hailed as an efficient system for the city's 220,000 inhabitants of that time. The trams were operated by the Manila Electric Railroad and Light Company (Meralco), which now provides power to the city.


Pre-war Corregidor

The Philippines once had a tram network in Manila, but it was destroyed during World War II. The system has been replaced with the LRT and MRT.


Last edited by Animo; February 14th, 2006 at 03:45 AM.
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Old January 14th, 2006, 04:53 PM   #54
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The tram was officially opened in Sofia on January 1, 1901. The lines were operated by 25 trams and 10 trailers. There were 6 tram lines of total length of 23 km single track.As of 2002 the tram transport system has been transporting passengers articulated 16 lines with a total length of 221 km of single track railway, and at an average speed of 13.8 km per hour. During the weekdays 190 trams are at work;
http://www.skgt-bg.com/index_en.htm
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Old January 14th, 2006, 10:53 PM   #55
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This is an interesting thread and I would like to see old photos of Tranvias in other countries [por favor].


CORREGIDOR is a two-square-mile mountainous island at the entrance to Manila Bay. The site of Fort Hughes, a U.S. Military Defense Unit with extensive tunnels through the mountains, the island was originally fortified by the Spanish in the 18th Century. It became a U.S. military station in 1900 and, after invasion by the Japanese in 1941, was chosen as a major defense position which was the site of a famous battle in 1942. The electric tram system, which opened in 1910, was operated by soldiers of the U.S. Army Quartermaster Corps. Eleven passenger cars ran on a winding network of lines connecting the docks and wharves with the barracks, schools and administrative offices. One line ran through a tunnel. The postcard shows Topside Station.


MANILA is located on the Island of Luzon on the east shore of Manila Bay. It is the principal port and commercial, cultural and industrial center of the Philippines. Founded in 1571, Manila became an important commercial center under Spanish rule and was captured by U.S. forces on Aug. 13, 1898, during the Spanish-American War. A horse tram system was opened in the 1880s and a steam tramway ran north to Malabon. The electric tramway system opened on April 10, 1905, and by the 1920s had 17 routes, 33 miles of track and 110 cars. Thirteen cars served a separate 12-mile interurban line to Pasig. Service ended in 1944 during the Japanese occupation. The postcard shows a tram in the silk-stocking district.

Last edited by Animo; January 14th, 2006 at 11:05 PM.
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Old January 15th, 2006, 05:49 AM   #56
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Dayton 1932, tram lines (we call them trolleys) at its greatest extent



...this system wasnt really a "system" ..the lines where run by about 4 seperate companies, I think....

City Railway


Peoples Railway


Oakwood Railroad


Dayton-Xenia. This is an old "city car"..the D-X ran larger cars for its service out to the town of Xenia


Beyond the "city car" system was the "interurbans" which ran to surrounding towns and cities.



@@@@@@

The long distance lines where abandoned by WWII. The city trams converted to trollybus operation...






@@@@

Dayton continues to operate trolleybuses today...one of the few cities in North America to do so:

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Old January 15th, 2006, 06:02 AM   #57
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The history of that Manila system was quite interesting! Thank you!
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Old January 16th, 2006, 05:13 PM   #58
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A lot of old trams in France (1890-1950):
http://www.amtuir.org/dossiers/histo...lpha_tw_cp.htm

Tramways in France in the 50's :
http://www.amtuir.org/dossiers/histo...iste_alpha.htm
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Old January 16th, 2006, 05:21 PM   #59
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In Grenoble, from 1894 to 1952 :
1 urban company (SGTE) and 3 suburban companies (VFD, CEN and TGC)
?? lines
length : 175 km (in 1923)
?? stations
89 wagons

A map of the department of Isere which Grenoble is the prefecture (all tracks are shown) :


Grenoble in the 1900's :




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Old January 16th, 2006, 05:23 PM   #60
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Societe Grenobloise de Tramways Electriques (SGTE) :







Grenoble - Villard de Lans (GVL) :







Voies Ferrees du Dauphine (VFD) :









Last edited by [email protected]; January 16th, 2006 at 05:43 PM.
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