Which Mode of Transport do you Like?

***hkskyline*** · June 6th, 2005, 05:10 AM

Background

The government has pledged to build more railways and have them form the backbone of Hong Kong's public transportation network. However, a report in today's Standard highlighted the increased competition's impact on other modes of transport, notably KMB.

On the other hand, ridership on West Rail and Ma On Shan Rail have fallen below expectations. Many residents still prefer riding buses because they provide point-to-point services while transfers are necessary by rail. Which mode of public transport do you prefer?

Buses on the road to ruin
Dennis Chong
Hong Kong Standard
June 6, 2005

KMB chief reveals a third of routes are in the red with fares freeze and warns against more rail lines

Hong Kong's biggest bus operator has called for an overhaul of public transport, saying heavy reliance on rail has created a dilemma for bus companies that must keep unprofitable routes running while not raising fares.

John Chan, the managing director of Kowloon Motor Bus, said in an interview with The Standard that about 140 routes, or one-third of the company's 420 routes, have become a money-losing burden and the government should go slow on developing new rail lines.

"You [have] already poured so many resources [into rail]. Is it really economically effective? Railways are expensive. The capital investment is high," he said.

He would not say if an increase in fares - which have been frozen since 1997 - is imminent, but he warned that the entire community will have to pay the price in the long-run. "I won't bother talking about it [a fare adjustment] because we all know we will fail," Chan said.

The former civil servant and one-time member of the Executive Council said the rapid development of rail routes in recent years has created a tough business environment for KMB.

Under the government's long-term transport strategy, rail will form the backbone of public transport.

With the commencement of several major rail lines since 2000 - such as West Rail, the Tsim Sha Tsui East Rail Extension, the Tseung Kwan O Line and Ma On Shan Rail - the market share for all franchised buses has dropped from 38.1 percent to 35.5 percent, according to the Transport Department.

For example, Ma On Shan Rail alone took away 80,000 passengers a day from KMB, equivalent to HK$100 million annually, according to the company.

Rail lines "cannot create new demand" but create redundancy, Chan said. He warned that an "oversupply" will be harmful to the community.

"It does not do any good to passengers and the society as a whole. In the long term, passengers as a whole will have to bear [the problem]."

Previously, he said, the government built rail lines in order to make new residential areas accessible to a growing population.

However, Chan said the newer lines directly target the core markets of bus companies in urban areas. As a result, the KMB fleet has been reduced from 4,400 vehicles to about 4,000 in recent years to cut costs.

Although the company made a profit of HK$730 million last year, that was far from satisfactory for a listed company, Chan said.

"Our rate of return is about 5-6 percent," he said.

"We understand that with a franchise system, the business risks are lower. But it does not mean no risk."

To offset pressures in Hong Kong, KMB is investing in China and is building five luxury residential blocks at the site of an old bus depot in Lai Chi Kok. They are due for completion early next year.

Rising oil prices, high wages, and tunnel costs have all kept operational costs high, Chan said.

He described the Eastern Harbour Tunnel Company as "lucky" because arbitration allowed it to significantly raise fares - a whopping 67 percent - after winning its case in 2002.

On a government proposal to adjust bus fares according to the consumer price index, Chan said, a fair mechanism is needed to incorporate all costs.

"Can the CPI reflect the oil prices?" he asked.

Regarding environmental issues, Chan said KMB has done a lot to reduce roadside emissions.

He described the KMB as running ahead of other transport operators in environmental protection. Environmentalists have complained that diesel-run buses are emitting harmful gases such as nitrogen oxides and respirable suspended particulates, which penetrate the lungs.

According to recent estimates, buses, along with diesel trucks, contributed 90 percent of roadside pollution.

Chan said as road users, buses are the most efficient.

"Each bus is about 12 metres long. This equals to 2.4 Lexus models or three Mini Coopers. If we say the emissions from buses are greater than a Lexus, but are they bigger than nearly five Lexus models combined? A car can hold three people, a bus can hold at least 70."

Chan said his bus fleet is "close to the best in the world" when it comes to environmental standards.

The future of KMB, which was founded in 1933 and is the oldest bus company in Hong Kong, will heavily depend on its mainland business, he said. Currently, it has joint ventures in cities such as Tianjin, Shenzhen, Dalian, Wuxi and Beijing.

hyacinthus · June 6th, 2005, 05:30 AM

I like a variety of transport modes. Though MTR is usually fast and regular, we can't just depend on MTR only... It'll be very boring cos it's underground.

Since, there's only 1 choice, I'll choose bus cos :
1) bus routes can be improved easily but not MTR which is already fixed i.e. can add/remove more lines but not change the lines.
2) I can enjoy scenery be it rural/urban.

scorpion · June 6th, 2005, 07:12 AM

i'd love to see some new tram lines developed for HK...

spicytimothy · June 6th, 2005, 09:11 AM

I really doubt there'd b new tram lines, since they're so ineffective as a "real" form of transportation... HOWEVER didn't someone propose sorta sightseeing tram line to go along the haborside? I think building one from Sheung Wan down to Causeway Bay/Victoria Park will b kinda nice... tho it probably mightn't b cost-effective... :-/

superchan7 · June 6th, 2005, 09:38 AM

MTR is a good technological showcase, but doesn't offer much scenery. KCR West Rail has good scenery in the New Territories. East Rail only has scenery in Tolo Harbour.
MTR's TCL and AEL have good scenery west of the urban areas.

Point-to-point journeys are best made with buses. Railways are probably the most passenger-efficient.

RafflesCity · June 6th, 2005, 10:25 AM

Taxi and Star Ferry

I like that the taxis in HK automatically open the door

ignoramus · June 6th, 2005, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RafflesCity

Taxi and Star Ferry

I like that the taxis in HK automatically open the door

In case you didn't know the majority of Comfort Taxis in Singapore already has such a featured installed...its just that the driver
1. enjoys looking at us fumble with our bags while attempting to open the door
2. doesn't know how it works...

And I learnt something new today, apparently most of Hong Kong's taxis are LPG powered...cool...
1. Handicapped friendly buses
2. LPG powered taxis
..............................so thoughtful to those less fortunate and the environment.........

hyacinthus · June 6th, 2005, 10:55 AM

So far, only 1 taxi (Spore) driver used that auto-door feature when he saw me with many shopping bags...

The HK taxis (as well as buses) in Kowloon and Hong Kong island I saw were clean and new to me. It's nice to know they are also environmentally-friendly

RafflesCity · June 6th, 2005, 11:13 AM

@ignoramus..oh my! I didnt know that

raymond_tung88 · June 6th, 2005, 01:56 PM

SUBWAY!!! It gets you anywhere around the city probably the fastest, most reliable, and i dunno cheapest?

Syd-Hk · June 6th, 2005, 02:28 PM

of course kcr!

Anekdote · June 6th, 2005, 08:33 PM

MTR and Taxi

spicytimothy · June 6th, 2005, 10:57 PM

Taxi auto door is nothing new... I believe we copied it from the Japanese...

InitialD18 · June 7th, 2005, 08:34 AM

automatic doors has been around for quite a while but not many places had adopt it yet ...

my favorite is star ferry and double deck trams ... i always wonder why they didn't built the tram along nathan road ... that would of been enough for kowloon's main thoroughfare ... now its just a heavily car dependent road that needs regeneration ...
imagine take tram from island side to go under the harbour and out to nathan road at night ... that would of been a worldly experience ...

Syd-Hk · June 7th, 2005, 02:10 PM

most annoying thing is that the auto-door is written in japanese!

superchan7 · June 7th, 2005, 03:00 PM

Haha...the Japanese writing uses "Do-aa"....don't they have better ideas than to use a bastardized English word?

But at least you could read the English so you know what it is... and I don't think HK really "copied" it from Japan, because the cars are from Japan. Even the old taxis had them.

scorpion · June 8th, 2005, 02:26 AM

Hydrofoil Star Ferry!!!

Patrick Highrise · June 8th, 2005, 03:06 PM

I choosed the ferry, but actually I liked all (public) transport; ferry, metro, tram, bus and yeah taxi were all great!

vincent · June 9th, 2005, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymond_tung88

SUBWAY!!! It gets you anywhere around the city probably the fastest, most reliable, and i dunno cheapest?

buses are usually slightly cheaper than MTR/KCR

vincent · June 9th, 2005, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InitialD18

automatic doors has been around for quite a while but not many places had adopt it yet ...

my favorite is star ferry and double deck trams ... i always wonder why they didn't built the tram along nathan road ... that would of been enough for kowloon's main thoroughfare ... now its just a heavily car dependent road that needs regeneration ...
imagine take tram from island side to go under the harbour and out to nathan road at night ... that would of been a worldly experience ...

with high capacity MTR running right under Nathan road, i doubt the light capacity tram would help much. But i agreee that the tram would be quite a scenic tour.

View Poll Results: Which mode of transport do you like?
Bus (KMB / NWFB / Citybus)	3	13.64%
Train (MTR / KCR)	11	50.00%
Minibus	0	0%
Tram	3	13.64%
Ferry (Star / Outlying Islands)	4	18.18%
Taxi	1	4.55%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

June 6th, 2005, 05:10 AM	#1
*hkskyline* Hong Kong Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 71,053 Likes (Received): 837	Which Mode of Transport do you Like? Background The government has pledged to build more railways and have them form the backbone of Hong Kong's public transportation network. However, a report in today's Standard highlighted the increased competition's impact on other modes of transport, notably KMB. On the other hand, ridership on West Rail and Ma On Shan Rail have fallen below expectations. Many residents still prefer riding buses because they provide point-to-point services while transfers are necessary by rail. Which mode of public transport do you prefer? Buses on the road to ruin Dennis Chong Hong Kong Standard June 6, 2005 KMB chief reveals a third of routes are in the red with fares freeze and warns against more rail lines Hong Kong's biggest bus operator has called for an overhaul of public transport, saying heavy reliance on rail has created a dilemma for bus companies that must keep unprofitable routes running while not raising fares. John Chan, the managing director of Kowloon Motor Bus, said in an interview with The Standard that about 140 routes, or one-third of the company's 420 routes, have become a money-losing burden and the government should go slow on developing new rail lines. "You [have] already poured so many resources [into rail]. Is it really economically effective? Railways are expensive. The capital investment is high," he said. He would not say if an increase in fares - which have been frozen since 1997 - is imminent, but he warned that the entire community will have to pay the price in the long-run. "I won't bother talking about it [a fare adjustment] because we all know we will fail," Chan said. The former civil servant and one-time member of the Executive Council said the rapid development of rail routes in recent years has created a tough business environment for KMB. Under the government's long-term transport strategy, rail will form the backbone of public transport. With the commencement of several major rail lines since 2000 - such as West Rail, the Tsim Sha Tsui East Rail Extension, the Tseung Kwan O Line and Ma On Shan Rail - the market share for all franchised buses has dropped from 38.1 percent to 35.5 percent, according to the Transport Department. For example, Ma On Shan Rail alone took away 80,000 passengers a day from KMB, equivalent to HK$100 million annually, according to the company. Rail lines "cannot create new demand" but create redundancy, Chan said. He warned that an "oversupply" will be harmful to the community. "It does not do any good to passengers and the society as a whole. In the long term, passengers as a whole will have to bear [the problem]." Previously, he said, the government built rail lines in order to make new residential areas accessible to a growing population. However, Chan said the newer lines directly target the core markets of bus companies in urban areas. As a result, the KMB fleet has been reduced from 4,400 vehicles to about 4,000 in recent years to cut costs. Although the company made a profit of HK$730 million last year, that was far from satisfactory for a listed company, Chan said. "Our rate of return is about 5-6 percent," he said. "We understand that with a franchise system, the business risks are lower. But it does not mean no risk." To offset pressures in Hong Kong, KMB is investing in China and is building five luxury residential blocks at the site of an old bus depot in Lai Chi Kok. They are due for completion early next year. Rising oil prices, high wages, and tunnel costs have all kept operational costs high, Chan said. He described the Eastern Harbour Tunnel Company as "lucky" because arbitration allowed it to significantly raise fares - a whopping 67 percent - after winning its case in 2002. On a government proposal to adjust bus fares according to the consumer price index, Chan said, a fair mechanism is needed to incorporate all costs. "Can the CPI reflect the oil prices?" he asked. Regarding environmental issues, Chan said KMB has done a lot to reduce roadside emissions. He described the KMB as running ahead of other transport operators in environmental protection. Environmentalists have complained that diesel-run buses are emitting harmful gases such as nitrogen oxides and respirable suspended particulates, which penetrate the lungs. According to recent estimates, buses, along with diesel trucks, contributed 90 percent of roadside pollution. Chan said as road users, buses are the most efficient. "Each bus is about 12 metres long. This equals to 2.4 Lexus models or three Mini Coopers. If we say the emissions from buses are greater than a Lexus, but are they bigger than nearly five Lexus models combined? A car can hold three people, a bus can hold at least 70." Chan said his bus fleet is "close to the best in the world" when it comes to environmental standards. The future of KMB, which was founded in 1933 and is the oldest bus company in Hong Kong, will heavily depend on its mainland business, he said. Currently, it has joint ventures in cities such as Tianjin, Shenzhen, Dalian, Wuxi and Beijing. __________________ Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries World Photo Gallery - \| New York \| London \| Egypt \| Dubai \| Shanghai \| Xian \| Tokyo \| Kyoto \| Prague Beijing, Seoul, Taipei, Mumbai, Iceland, Sydney, Rocky Mountains, Toronto, and much more!

June 6th, 2005, 05:30 AM	#2
hyacinthus Success and Happiness Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 6,765 Likes (Received): 0	I like a variety of transport modes. Though MTR is usually fast and regular, we can't just depend on MTR only... It'll be very boring cos it's underground. Since, there's only 1 choice, I'll choose bus cos : 1) bus routes can be improved easily but not MTR which is already fixed i.e. can add/remove more lines but not change the lines. 2) I can enjoy scenery be it rural/urban. Last edited by hyacinthus; June 6th, 2005 at 06:16 AM.

June 6th, 2005, 09:38 AM	#5
superchan7 EOS 40D Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Jose, CA, USA / Hong Kong, China Posts: 2,170 Likes (Received): 0	MTR is a good technological showcase, but doesn't offer much scenery. KCR West Rail has good scenery in the New Territories. East Rail only has scenery in Tolo Harbour. MTR's TCL and AEL have good scenery west of the urban areas. Point-to-point journeys are best made with buses. Railways are probably the most passenger-efficient. __________________ I speak English / 我講中文 / Ich spreche deutsch / 3y3 5p34k L337

June 7th, 2005, 03:00 PM	#16
superchan7 EOS 40D Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Jose, CA, USA / Hong Kong, China Posts: 2,170 Likes (Received): 0	Haha...the Japanese writing uses "Do-aa"....don't they have better ideas than to use a bastardized English word? But at least you could read the English so you know what it is... and I don't think HK really "copied" it from Japan, because the cars are from Japan. Even the old taxis had them. __________________ I speak English / 我講中文 / Ich spreche deutsch / 3y3 5p34k L337

June 6th, 2005, 07:12 AM	#3
scorpion ...starwood... :-D Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: LA-Lndn-HK-Dub-Amsterdam-Aspen... Posts: 1,086 Likes (Received): 0	i'd love to see some new tram lines developed for HK...

June 6th, 2005, 09:11 AM	#4
spicytimothy ...::HK.:.:.:.LA::... Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hong Kong / Los Angeles Posts: 1,512 Likes (Received): 0	I really doubt there'd b new tram lines, since they're so ineffective as a "real" form of transportation... HOWEVER didn't someone propose sorta sightseeing tram line to go along the haborside? I think building one from Sheung Wan down to Causeway Bay/Victoria Park will b kinda nice... tho it probably mightn't b cost-effective... :-/

June 6th, 2005, 10:25 AM	#6
RafflesCity By Spirit Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: S I N G A P O R E Posts: 26,215 Likes (Received): 2	Taxi and Star Ferry I like that the taxis in HK automatically open the door

June 6th, 2005, 10:55 AM	#8
hyacinthus Success and Happiness Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 6,765 Likes (Received): 0	So far, only 1 taxi (Spore) driver used that auto-door feature when he saw me with many shopping bags... The HK taxis (as well as buses) in Kowloon and Hong Kong island I saw were clean and new to me. It's nice to know they are also environmentally-friendly

June 6th, 2005, 11:13 AM	#9
RafflesCity By Spirit Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: S I N G A P O R E Posts: 26,215 Likes (Received): 2	@ignoramus..oh my! I didnt know that

June 6th, 2005, 01:56 PM	#10
raymond_tung88 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,287 Likes (Received): 0	SUBWAY!!! It gets you anywhere around the city probably the fastest, most reliable, and i dunno cheapest?

June 6th, 2005, 02:28 PM	#11
Syd-Hk What Title? Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 544 Likes (Received): 0	of course kcr!

June 6th, 2005, 08:33 PM	#12
Anekdote Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,083 Likes (Received): 4	MTR and Taxi

June 6th, 2005, 10:57 PM	#13
spicytimothy ...::HK.:.:.:.LA::... Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hong Kong / Los Angeles Posts: 1,512 Likes (Received): 0	Taxi auto door is nothing new... I believe we copied it from the Japanese...

June 7th, 2005, 08:34 AM	#14
InitialD18 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 434 Likes (Received): 0	automatic doors has been around for quite a while but not many places had adopt it yet ... my favorite is star ferry and double deck trams ... i always wonder why they didn't built the tram along nathan road ... that would of been enough for kowloon's main thoroughfare ... now its just a heavily car dependent road that needs regeneration ... imagine take tram from island side to go under the harbour and out to nathan road at night ... that would of been a worldly experience ...

June 7th, 2005, 02:10 PM	#15
Syd-Hk What Title? Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 544 Likes (Received): 0	most annoying thing is that the auto-door is written in japanese!

June 8th, 2005, 02:26 AM	#17
scorpion ...starwood... :-D Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: LA-Lndn-HK-Dub-Amsterdam-Aspen... Posts: 1,086 Likes (Received): 0	Hydrofoil Star Ferry!!!

June 8th, 2005, 03:06 PM	#18
Patrick Highrise visit the world Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Rotterdam Posts: 4,726 Likes (Received): 112	I choosed the ferry, but actually I liked all (public) transport; ferry, metro, tram, bus and yeah taxi were all great! __________________ Patrick ------------------------------------------------------ 2012: Peru rondreis 2012 2013: Dubai 2013 (januari 2013) / Barcelona maart 2013 (4e (laatste) deel gepost) / Madrid (jun) / ???

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode