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Old October 31st, 2006, 07:11 AM   #221
ardecila
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Height figures on this building have varied all over the place. Even the models/drawings are not consistent.
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Old November 1st, 2006, 02:05 AM   #222
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Why do developers of buildings like this one, design it to be 930 ft. why not just add an extra 70 ft. and make it a 1,000'? I never understood why some fall just short, is it that only the enthusiast's care about the 1,000ft. plateau & certain developers could care less?
You answered your own question perfectly. The number 1000 is nothing more than a number to anyone but us. They will make the building as tall as it needs to be for them to meet their desired profit margins and contain the desired program - if that happens to be 400 feet then so be it, if it happens to be 1400 feet then that's fine too. Development is like everything else - all about the bottom line.
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Old November 1st, 2006, 06:02 AM   #223
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In the present market, I don't see how this one gets built. It seems to to have been introduced too late. No wonder they're not releasing sales figures.

Last edited by ChicagoLover; November 1st, 2006 at 06:09 AM.
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Old November 1st, 2006, 06:20 PM   #224
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^-- Agreed. I think they just missed the bubble.
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Old November 1st, 2006, 08:08 PM   #225
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there was no bubble geoff. It was a bull market for several years and it cooled off . a bubble is an over inflation which generaly ventualy bursts. this was not that. this was a strong market that cooled like it should
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 03:59 PM   #226
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With all due respect, I'm well aware of the difference between bull and bubble markets. Typically, when a bull market cools, it results in slowing or even stagnating appreciation; whereas, when a bubble bursts, actual depreciation usually occurs. As someone who lost money selling a condo within the last year, I would have to say, from personal experience, that the housing explosion was more bubble than bull. And again, with all due respect for your opinion, I've heard it referred to as such (a "housing bubble") by hundreds of real-estate analysists over the past five years.
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Old November 2nd, 2006, 07:37 PM   #227
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In the present market, I don't see how this one gets built. It seems to to have been introduced too late. No wonder they're not releasing sales figures.

^ Well, they sold 20-25% of the units in the few first weeks. Slow sales are something developers are aware they have to accept at this point. I can't imagine them pulling out after making it this far with this project.
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Old November 3rd, 2006, 07:35 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff_diamond View Post
With all due respect, I'm well aware of the difference between bull and bubble markets. Typically, when a bull market cools, it results in slowing or even stagnating appreciation; whereas, when a bubble bursts, actual depreciation usually occurs. As someone who lost money selling a condo within the last year, I would have to say, from personal experience, that the housing explosion was more bubble than bull. And again, with all due respect for you opinion, I've heard it referred to as such (a "housing bubble") by hundreds of real-estate analysists over the past five years.
the definition of a burst bubble is not when theres a slight depreciation in a lightly over inflated market. the term bubble being burst is used by extreem situations that causes full market crashes , huge job losses , many companies in that marker fold, and the overal us economy gets jaulted. this was harldy the case in our recent real estate market.
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Old November 4th, 2006, 07:16 PM   #229
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I don't think I said it had burst already. I certainly (and unfortunately) think it is in the process of doing so, however. All I said is that they missed the bubble (meaning the creation of it) - not that it's completely over yet (the destruction).
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Old November 7th, 2006, 08:36 PM   #230
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Old November 23rd, 2006, 05:13 PM   #231
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This sucks! Seems every tower that isn't in the ground yet isn't going to happen. If Mandarin can't get something like this done, you can forget about the Spire or Park Michigan. Somebody feel free to assure me that this is not the case...
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Old November 23rd, 2006, 08:11 PM   #232
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The spire won't have a problem because of the location. The views are incredible plus every unit would be different because of the twist. the Mandarin is in the middle of all this other buildings that there is actually not to many good views. Also remember the spire is design by Calatrava.
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Old November 24th, 2006, 05:50 PM   #233
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...

Last edited by NittanyBLUE2002; November 24th, 2006 at 07:40 PM.
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Old November 25th, 2006, 06:17 AM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Cadillac View Post
This sucks! Seems every tower that isn't in the ground yet isn't going to happen. If Mandarin can't get something like this done, you can forget about the Spire or Park Michigan. Somebody feel free to assure me that this is not the case...
So what are you based on may I assure you?
They will be build and I can assure you that you are a sucker for the BS!
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Old November 26th, 2006, 09:35 AM   #235
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The Mandarin Oriental is way too ambitious a proposal in this market. I would say the same for the Park Michigan. Adding to the softer housing market, I would think part of the problem is now the *perceptions* of a soft housing market. People who might otherwise be interested in signing a pre-construction contract and putting money down might be wary because of the market. Instead, a person planning on moving downtown in several years might go for something already under construction, or already built, rather than take a gamble that something like Mandarin Oriental will actually get built.

Its too bad with Mandarin Oriental, but as for Park Michigan, the design was boring. I don't care if Park Michigan never soars.

I consider us lucky to have seen the plan for Aqua survive, even as construction costs increased and the market softened.
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Old November 26th, 2006, 05:30 PM   #236
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Quote:
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The Mandarin Oriental is way too ambitious a proposal in this market. I would say the same for the Park Michigan.
^ Yeah, you've already said that.

How about adding something else to this discussion? Threads at SSP (ie Chicago Spire) get closed because people spend more time talking about why a project won't happen than about the project itself.
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Old November 26th, 2006, 06:03 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoLover View Post
The Mandarin Oriental is way too ambitious a proposal in this market. I would say the same for the Park Michigan. Adding to the softer housing market, I would think part of the problem is now the *perceptions* of a soft housing market. People who might otherwise be interested in signing a pre-construction contract and putting money down might be wary because of the market. Instead, a person planning on moving downtown in several years might go for something already under construction, or already built, rather than take a gamble that something like Mandarin Oriental will actually get built.

Its too bad with Mandarin Oriental, but as for Park Michigan, the design was boring. I don't care if Park Michigan never soars.

I consider us lucky to have seen the plan for Aqua survive, even as construction costs increased and the market softened.
What are you talking about? Too ambitious?! The city is having some of the largest most ambitous projects sprouting up around us as we speak. As for the Park michigan, that building will not be as super luxurious as the mandarin i think it will start out with much stronger sales than the mandarin had.
P.S I dont consider it luck for the aqua building to have survived. Its has mostly apartments which are currently hot in this market. There was never any issues with aqua getting built.
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Old November 27th, 2006, 11:01 AM   #238
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TUP: Well I'm sorry for being repetitive. I see there is tolerance for repetitive optimism but little tolerance for repetitive pessimism.

Chicago23: Acknowledged, but still 263 condos to sell.
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Old November 27th, 2006, 05:42 PM   #239
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TUP: Well I'm sorry for being repetitive. I see there is tolerance for repetitive optimism but little tolerance for repetitive pessimism.
^ No, CL, but is this the skyscrapers-that-won't-happen-forum or is this skyscrapercity? The whole purpose of this forum is to discuss projects in a meaningful way--their design, layout, height, and yes their financing issues.

But if you've already made up your mind that a project is out the window, then what's the point of posting in that particular thread over and over again to restate that? I don't know about you, but it seems like good common sense to me
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Old November 27th, 2006, 07:56 PM   #240
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If you built it, they just may come. Not a guarantee, but if you build a great product people will want to buy it regardless.
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