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Old February 15th, 2012, 03:13 PM   #921
TheReconstructer
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Those out-of-context period costumes are hilarious!
Yup But at least Kaliningrad reconstructed/restored something Would be nice if they did the old Castle and the Kneiphof too

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Old February 15th, 2012, 04:07 PM   #922
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Yup But at least Kaliningrad reconstructed/restored something Would be nice if they did the old Castle and the Kneiphof too
Had Brezhnev not blown up the old castle that would probably have happened by now. Other parts of the Kneiphof could have been restored with relative ease as well.

The funny thing here is that at the end of WWII the original plan called for Poland to get Königsberg/Kaliningrad and for East Germany to keep Stettin/Szczecin. Only at the very last minute did Stalin decide that he wanted Kaliningrad whereupon we were left with the present arrangement.

A damn shame really because the Poles would have almost certainly done as nice of a job with Kaliningrad as they did with Gdańsk.

Of course, the flip side is that Szczecin today might very well be as ugly as Magdeburg or Chemnitz.

Twelve of one or a dozen of the other I suppose.

Last edited by Judge Roy Beam; February 15th, 2012 at 04:15 PM.
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Old February 15th, 2012, 05:43 PM   #923
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Had Brezhnev not blown up the old castle that would probably have happened by now. Other parts of the Kneiphof could have been restored with relative ease as well.

The funny thing here is that at the end of WWII the original plan called for Poland to get Königsberg/Kaliningrad and for East Germany to keep Stettin/Szczecin. Only at the very last minute did Stalin decide that he wanted Kaliningrad whereupon we were left with the present arrangement.

A damn shame really because the Poles would have almost certainly done as nice of a job with Kaliningrad as they did with Gdańsk.

Of course, the flip side is that Szczecin today might very well be as ugly as Magdeburg or Chemnitz.

Twelve of one or a dozen of the other I suppose.
Königsberg as a part of Duchy of Prussia was a fief of the Polish Kingdom just for 59 years (between 1466-1525). I don't think that Polish people would rebuild the city, because they were (and still are) not connected with it. Gdansk for example was part of Poland for around 700 years (and it was biggest and richest Polish city in 16th/17th century), so reconstruction process was just a matter of time.

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Old February 16th, 2012, 11:06 PM   #924
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Königsberg as a part of Duchy of Prussia was a fief of the Polish Kingdom just for 59 years (between 1466-1525). I don't think that Polish people would rebuild the city, because they were (and still are) not connected with it. Gdansk for example was part of Poland for around 700 years (and it was biggest and richest Polish city in 16th/17th century), so reconstruction process was just a matter of time.
Good points.

I suppose then that by 1945 Königsberg/Kaliningrad/Królewiec was in fact doomed to eternal ugliness no matter who got it.

Maybe the Lithuanians would have shown some affection for the place had it landed in their lap? Probably not though.

It did used to be rather nice.
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Old February 17th, 2012, 04:18 PM   #925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge Roy Beam View Post
Had Brezhnev not blown up the old castle that would probably have happened by now. Other parts of the Kneiphof could have been restored with relative ease as well.

The funny thing here is that at the end of WWII the original plan called for Poland to get Königsberg/Kaliningrad and for East Germany to keep Stettin/Szczecin. Only at the very last minute did Stalin decide that he wanted Kaliningrad whereupon we were left with the present arrangement.

A damn shame really because the Poles would have almost certainly done as nice of a job with Kaliningrad as they did with Gdańsk.

Of course, the flip side is that Szczecin today might very well be as ugly as Magdeburg or Chemnitz.

Twelve of one or a dozen of the other I suppose.
But for what reason did Stalin wanted Kaliningrad? I mean: it isn't the most strategic place for an harbour, and the city was almost completly destroyed.....So for what reason did he wanted Kaliningrad?
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Old February 17th, 2012, 05:26 PM   #926
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Second-class travelers Station, Miranda de Ebro (Spain).

This is a building that has 150 years (this year is the anniversary of the arrival of the train to this small town), probably of the few who were saved in Spain in the early years of the railway in the country. For years it has been used as storage. It has more historical value than architectural, unlike the rest of the station.

Probably in the future be used as art gallery.

Before




After (still in works)


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MIRANDAdeebro
150 ANIVERSARIO DE FERROCARRIL MIRANDÉS: 1862-2012
> Miranda de Ebro: INDICE DE HILOS
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Old February 17th, 2012, 05:55 PM   #927
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Königsberg as a part of Duchy of Prussia was a fief of the Polish Kingdom just for 59 years (between 1466-1525). I don't think that Polish people would rebuild the city, because they were (and still are) not connected with it. Gdansk for example was part of Poland for around 700 years (and it was biggest and richest Polish city in 16th/17th century), so reconstruction process was just a matter of time.
I don't think so, it would be like Szczecin/Stettin in worst case. In Szczecin separate buildings (like castle) were rebuilt but the city was rather neglected for long time, I guess because of its remote location within Poland and proximity to German border with no border treaty till 1990. It would be not a case with Królewiec/Königsberg so I think it would be rebuilt to some greater degree. Also I bet the commie propaganda would certainly find strong ties between Poland and the city .

Last edited by uunxx; February 17th, 2012 at 06:01 PM.
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Old February 18th, 2012, 12:59 AM   #928
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Well, since the border treaty wasn't official until much after 1945, there was no impetus to rebuilt and comprehensively deal with large cities that potentially may not have stayed within Poland. I remember in N. Davies' "Heart of Europe," he went on a whole spiel about this impacting decisions of reconstruction. Plus, with very abstract links to Poland, Szczecin's German past, or it's shredded remains, were golden commie propaganda opportunities.
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Old February 18th, 2012, 11:52 PM   #929
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well it's really hard to tell what would happen to konigsberg... the reconstruction of cities in northern poland differed from town to town, the old towns in gdansk and olsztyn were rebuilt but the surroundings are still haunting, the old towns in elblag and kolobrzeg remained untouched until the eighties and the nineties when a postmodern reinterpretation of the ancient scheme started, the cities of stargard or koszalin were rebuilt with modern buildings placed on the medieval street pattern, there are several smaller towns that was turned in a complete mess and lost forever their city centers... konigsberg was doomed by the scale of it's destruction and it's impossible to tell how the polish state would rebuild it, apart the propaganda, the economic aspects probably would be decisive... i wouldn't be surprised if they focused on the reactivation of the harbor and on the construction of flats for it's workers, leaving the old town spoil as it happened in elbing or stettin... however considering the importance of such a large city for the reborn country perhaps they would have rebuilt the old town as it happened in the "hostile-german" breslau... who knows?
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Old February 19th, 2012, 09:55 AM   #930
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But for what reason did Stalin wanted Kaliningrad? I mean: it isn't the most strategic place for an harbour, and the city was almost completly destroyed.....So for what reason did he wanted Kaliningrad?
It wasn't Kaliningrad he wanted so much as the nearby ice free port city of Pillau/Baltiysk.

During the cold war the Soviets constructed a huge naval base there and to this day it remains the largest Russian naval base in the Baltic Sea.



The old Kriegsmarine barracks now under new management in Baltiysk.
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Old February 20th, 2012, 09:24 PM   #931
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Königsberg as a part of Duchy of Prussia was a fief of the Polish Kingdom just for 59 years (between 1466-1525). I don't think that Polish people would rebuild the city, because they were (and still are) not connected with it. Gdansk for example was part of Poland for around 700 years (and it was biggest and richest Polish city in 16th/17th century), so reconstruction process was just a matter of time.
I noticed a small mistake there.

Königsberg as a part of Duchy of Prussia was a fief of the Polish Kingdom for 191 years (between 1466-1657). Also, I've read that some famous Poles were living there. It seems that Königsberg had more ties to Poland than I thought. So there was a chance for reconstruction after all...
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Old February 20th, 2012, 10:24 PM   #932
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do you argue with yourself ?
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Old February 20th, 2012, 10:30 PM   #933
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do you argue with yourself ?
I don't argue with myself. I just spotted a mistake in my post
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Old February 20th, 2012, 10:31 PM   #934
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Old February 22nd, 2012, 10:08 AM   #935
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But for what reason did Stalin wanted Kaliningrad? I mean: it isn't the most strategic place for an harbour, and the city was almost completly destroyed.....So for what reason did he wanted Kaliningrad?
Kaliningrad as a city maybe isn't that strategic, but region of Kaliningrad is very important for Russia and was for USSR. Look at how, after the fall of USSR, Rossia has kept Kaliningrad, even when they allowed Baltic states to secede. So there is this big gap between Kaliningrad district and the rest of Russia.

Russians keep ballistic missiles in Kaliningrad so their range cover the whole Poland and nearby states. Russian general even said a few years ago, that they will target their nuclear missiles at Poland . Russians are funny like that They are angry because of Poland-USA missile defence pact. But they kept missiles in Kaliningrad before, just conventional - to destroy airports in an event of war. And now they say they'll put nuclear ones there also, for good measure

More realistic - Russians change their stance on whether to allow Polish ships to go from the Baltic sea to the Vistula Gulf (the only way between the Gulf that is on Polish territory mostly, and the sea, is throught the strait near Kaliningrad, on Russian territory) at a whim, and use that as a political argument. Poles want to dig a canal between Vistula Gulf and Baltic Sea on Polish territory, but ecological concerns has stoped that for many years now.

Kaliningrad region is very important strategicaly.
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Old March 1st, 2012, 03:50 AM   #936
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In Sofia

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Old March 1st, 2012, 04:27 AM   #937
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Well I live in Tirana.
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Old March 3rd, 2012, 08:52 AM   #938
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del

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Old March 4th, 2012, 07:45 AM   #939
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New airport in Wroclaw (Poland). It's a beauty!
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http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...12903&page=226
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Old March 4th, 2012, 08:48 AM   #940
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Gorgeous building! But is this a revitalization?
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