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Old May 10th, 2013, 07:12 PM   #521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
Agreed. Are all those plots we see in the pictures going to be developed?
Yes, they are.

HafenCity is Europe's biggest urban development area for years.

Masterplan for the whole area:

Sandtorkai quarter: 2003-05
Dalmannkai quarter: 2004-07
Am Sandtorpark quarter: 2005-07
Grasbrook quarter: 2005-07
Strandkai quarter: 2012-14
Überseequartier: 2007-11
Brooktorkai quarter: 2005-07 (Ericusspitze from 2012 on)
Östlich Magdeburger Hafen (‘East Magdeburg Harbour’) quarter: 2007-10
Lohsepark quarter: 2017-20
Oberhafen quarter: 2013-19
Baakenhafen quarter: 2010-22
Elbbrückenzentrum (‘Elbe Bridges Office Park’) quarter: from 2022 on

HafenCity around 2017:





All from: http://www.hafencity.com/en/concepts...asterplan.html
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Old May 10th, 2013, 08:06 PM   #522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Yes, they are.

HafenCity is Europe's biggest urban development area for years.
Sorry for derailing the tread, but the fjordcity project in Oslo, Norway appears to be larger if the numbers on the Hafencitys page is correct. Fjordcity is about 220hectare while Hafencity is claimed to be 157 hectare (according to hafencity.com).
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Old May 10th, 2013, 09:27 PM   #523
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If you really want to have an answer to that question you should e-mail the hafen-city office and ask why they claim to be the biggest inner-city development project. I think they are aware of other big projects in Europe before they claimed to be the biggest.
Here we can only guess and start one of those very unfunny city vs. city "my dick is bigger" bashing
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Old May 10th, 2013, 09:51 PM   #524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ji-Ja-Jot View Post
If you really want to have an answer to that question you should e-mail the hafen-city office and ask why they claim to be the biggest inner-city development project. I think they are aware of other big projects in Europe before they claimed to be the biggest.
Here we can only guess and start one of those very unfunny city vs. city "my dick is bigger" bashing
I'm just saying, based on the numbers they use to promote it with, then there are at least two (London also got one that claims to be bigger: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1619458) project of larger scale going on in Europe. I don't know if their numbers are correct though and I don't really have any way to check if they are either.

I think Hafencity is a nice development so I'm not trying to belittle it ... I'm just trying to correct what appears to me to be incorrect information.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 10:15 PM   #525
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np...

basically I don't care if there is a project with more hectar. It is always a question how you draw the boarders around your project area. For the Fjord city I would say from at a frist glance (by the way, great projects there. Why is this not promoted more in the World development forums?) that more or less three seperated main areas/quarters are only conected with tiny areas directly at the banks instead of a beeing a single quarter like HafenCity or NineElms in London.
But as I said it is meaningless. I am sure Oslo has more project areas directly boardering Fjord City as London has projects boardering Nine Elms as Hamburg has projects boardering the Hafencity which all can count to this project if someone decides so...

For example HafenCity itself is only a smaller part of a bigger development in Hamburg called "Sprung über die Elbe" with easily several 1000 hectars of development area all boardering each other and which are build simultaneously until 2025-2030(there will be always delays).
Here is an airpicture with "Sprung über die Elbe" developent areas highlighted. The Hafencity is dissapearing in the mist in the north of the picture. The southern end of the "Sprung über die Elbe" is at the bottom of the picture (Channel Harburg project)
[img]http://i43.************/2yjvolt.jpg[/img]

older masterplan with hafencity and its neighbouring development areas for the "Sprung über die Elbe"
(Elbbrückenzentrum to the right, Kleiner Grasbrook/Veddel redevelopment south. Even this three areas togehter
are already > 300 hectare)


Model (hafencity not even in the picture)



Once I tried to render all projects of the "Sprung über die Elbe" into a self made overview map togehter with an even bigger project (infrastructual Masterplan for the harbour) but at one point I gave up, so I missed 50% here...
http://cf-jot.deviantart.com/art/Ham...%3Acf-jot&qo=1

Several projects of this development like The Channel, Elbbrückenzentrum and IBA are listed in the other Hamburg-Thread
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1526747

Last edited by Ji-Ja-Jot; May 12th, 2013 at 03:26 PM.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 10:23 PM   #526
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Hamburg is the most beautiful big city in Germany!
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Old May 11th, 2013, 11:08 PM   #527
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It is hard to follow news about these projects without speaking German... is the OMA Science Center officially dead? I thought there was a redesign not too long ago.
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Old May 11th, 2013, 11:31 PM   #528
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It is officially not dead.
(But to be honest: I don't see any chance of a realisation after the financial Elbphilharmony desaster)
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Old May 12th, 2013, 06:42 AM   #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ji-Ja-Jot View Post
basically I don't care if there is a project with more hectar. It is always a question how you draw the boarders around your project area. For the Fjord city I would say from at a frist glance (by the way, great projects there. Why is this not promoted more in the World development forums?) that more or less three seperated main areas/quarters are only conected with tiny areas directly at the banks instead of a beeing a single quarter like HafenCity or NineElms in London.
Developers like to claim the largest/longest/tallest construction under (so-and-so conditions), and SSC likes to ferret them out. For instance the recently completed Line 10 in Beijing is deemed the longest circular all-underground tunnel served by a single metro ring line. Change the parameters and another metro "wins". Line 10 is twice as long as the CERN Large Hadron Collider And Destroyer Of Worlds, which presumably would be the longest circular all-underground tunnel lined with superconducting magnets. Anyway, most largest/longest/tallest would go to China, or at least Asia.

What I find more interesting is that HafenCity and Fjord City and other project like Western Harbour in Malmö share more than background, a post-industrial rejuvenation of harbour zones, but also style and attitude, a common way of doing waterfronts in the 2010s. To me they also seem "Northern European", recent waterfront projects I've seen elsewhere have had a different feel to them. That may be because I haven't been around enough of course.
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Old May 12th, 2013, 03:19 PM   #530
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Whats the social mix going to be like here?
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Old May 12th, 2013, 03:40 PM   #531
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I guess we'll survive even without knowing if the Hafencity is the actual biggest development in Europe.

Instead, it would be interesting to know how the process of the integration to the local "urban fabric" is going on. Is the district already vastly populated?
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Old May 13th, 2013, 01:37 PM   #532
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in the north of it and west of it. The south not yet.

After derailing, lets bring this back on track

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
Agreed. Are all those plots we see in the pictures going to be developed?
Yes. For example... An quick overview of projects U/C and confirmed for one of those airial pictures...
[IMG]http://i41.************/2j6wsx.jpg[/IMG]
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Old May 13th, 2013, 02:10 PM   #533
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One of the aspects that I like and appreciate the most about the whole development of this area, is its architecture. There doesn't seem to be an urge to build nothing but stand-out spectacular architecture, but countrary: the architecture is modest - simple, respectful and still every building is designed to have its individual character. And then here and there, there's a landmark that really stands out, thanks to the modesty of the general development. Very classy!
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Old May 14th, 2013, 01:13 AM   #534
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Great projects, i love the Hafencity and this new quarters in middle of the Elbe with all this bridges and the see!
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Old May 14th, 2013, 04:37 PM   #535
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First Building designs for the Baakenhafen quarter confirmed.

[IMG]http://i41.************/dfrro.jpg[/IMG]

It looks as if the six "Watertowers" are going to be a combination of the two first placed ideas by the Shigeru Ban Architects Europe (Paris)


and Studio Gang Architects, Chicago, (USA)
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Old May 14th, 2013, 04:46 PM   #536
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Fantastic stuff.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 10:24 AM   #537
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Yeah, really cool development there, will be a very interesting quarter.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 10:44 AM   #538
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Hamburg truly is one of the great European cities
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Old May 15th, 2013, 11:04 AM   #539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
Whats the social mix going to be like here?
That's what I'd like to know too. Hope it won't be just for the rich.
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Old May 15th, 2013, 11:47 AM   #540
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What have been already build (the western part of the HC) is mostly for the upper class.
Here you can see the rents for the currently available flats. All cold-rents are between 1200-2999€ per month (cold means without heating and further costings)
http://www.immobilienscout24.de/immo.../hafencity.htm

I visited two flats and what you get for the money is totally overpriced and among the most expensive flats in Hamburg in case of €/m². More expensive than best areas around the Alster lake and Elbe-Quarters.

That's why (on medias and political pressure) the HafenCity planners rewrote their
masterplan. For the new central Quarters are social-flats planned and already builded
The recently compleated project "Hafenliebe" contains 200 public authority-supported apartments


Current U/C project at Shanghaiallee will contain 30% social housing with prices per m² of 5,90€ instead the the usual average of 17 per m² in hafencity ...


We will see if this will lower the rents a bit. But if this will not work I am sure the unstoppable Spiderinvasion will do it

Last edited by Ji-Ja-Jot; May 15th, 2013 at 11:54 AM.
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