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Old November 29th, 2010, 06:39 AM   #1981
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So, in your opinion, all that stands between America and the transit utopia where people leave McMansions and Ford Explorers behind for good and forever are a bunch of Southeastern Congressmen fueled (pun intended) by oil companies?
I'm talking about the Northeast more then the rest of the country , where far more advanced then any other part.... The South holds back alot of large transit funding $$$ , there against alot of other things , there also the most poor and uneducated region. Which explains why they keep voting for stupid lying congressmen. But if you look at once Auto-Centric Northern Virgina you'll notice a change to more Transit centric living. If the area is too spread out then Buses and bike lanes serve that area , if the area is more dense then Trams and Metro rail serve it. Regional Rail services the Satilite towns and cities. Ridership of all the Northeastern systems has been growing for the past 15 years , most systems surpassed there 1970s levels. All these areas will have Intercity or Regional Rail by 2040... and the population and densities support it. The Suburbs are being turned into Denser city - suburbs......your suburban utopia is dying.....




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Old November 29th, 2010, 09:26 AM   #1982
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Brazil, to the extent such comparisons can be drawn, is much more akin to US (population density, origin-destination freight profile) than to Europe. There is no way either country should, albeit for different reasons, try to think they will ever have a passenger system like Europe. US doesn't need it, Brazil doesn't need it - and I'll make my point into a new or revived thread in this very section.
Your oppinion as someone who doesn't use public transport anyway.

I use public transport and I can guarantee that Brazil needs fast intercity trains and wide-spread light rail. It would dramatically increase the quality of life of people who commute between cities in Brazil. Commuting between São Paulo and Campinas, between Piracicaba and Campinas, between Limeira and Piracicaba, etc, etc, like so many people do dayly, whould be much faster, safer, cleaner and confortable with intercity trains and light rail wide-spread like in Poland.

Plus, it's not really at all about Europe versus Brazil and USA. The brazilian north-east coast and the southeast are denser then many european countries with excelent rail networks (Poland for example). I doubt you think that Europe needs it's passenger rail network either. Or do you?

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Brazilians should look more to Americans than to Poles, no offense or mistreat intended, as US offers a far more attractive paradigm of what a wealthy Brazil's life could be than Poland, which suffered from wars, communist ruling, centuries of being pawn between Prussia/Germany and Russia etc.
I don't follow up what historical power has to do with it?
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Old November 29th, 2010, 02:22 PM   #1983
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Geez, another "this is 'better' America" argument. It's really hard to keep the discussion if you assume, beforehand, that part of America (the one where you live, of course) is better than the rest of the country, live the place where I lived (Laramie, Wyoming), and that other regions voters' stupidity is what is blocking the advancement of US...

Tea Party almost won with their 2nd wackiest candidate in the Northeast. Only that even wackier lady from Nevada beat her...
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Old November 30th, 2010, 02:47 AM   #1984
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Geez, another "this is 'better' America" argument. It's really hard to keep the discussion if you assume, beforehand, that part of America (the one where you live, of course) is better than the rest of the country, live the place where I lived (Laramie, Wyoming), and that other regions voters' stupidity is what is blocking the advancement of US...

Tea Party almost won with their 2nd wackiest candidate in the Northeast. Only that even wackier lady from Nevada beat her...
Actually the Nevada lady lost , the tea party lost half its canadaites. I doubt you live in Wyoming , i also doubt you lived in Brazil. You seem to have lived everywhere on this planet which is impossible.... I think one day in the not so distance future the US will break up or the Northeast or South will succeed form the union.

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Old November 30th, 2010, 03:21 AM   #1985
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I doubt you live in Wyoming , i also doubt you lived in Brazil.
ROFL, do you want my University of Wyoming card copy? And now to have lived in 4 countries until my 20's is impossible? ROFL

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I think one day in the not so distance future the US will break up or the Northeast or South will succeed form the union.
Geez, Lincoln must be rolling on his rest place
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Old November 30th, 2010, 02:44 PM   #1986
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DeBary urges development near future train depot
By MARK HARPER, Staff writer

Posted in: West Volusia
Tagged: SunRail
November 30, 2010 12:05 AM Posted in: West Volusia
Tagged: SunRail

DeBary city officials are trying to encourage the transformation of a lonely rail crossing into a bustling area of four-story, mixed-use buildings that will attract train commuters and high-density dwellers.

One of their tools -- the land-development code -- is being honed for approvals at City Council meetings on Dec. 15 and 29. A public hearing at 5 p.m. Wednesday at City Hall will give residents a chance to comment.

The location of a future SunRail commuter train platform, just west of U.S. 17-92 on Fort Florida Road, sees little traffic. When the commuter rail starts in 2013, DeBary will be the northernmost stop on a line that will extend to Orlando and beyond. Transportation planners say the success of such commuter-rail lines depends upon people living and working in close proximity to stops.

"We have this opportunity. The council wants to follow through with it," City Manager Dan Parrott said.

In addition to encouraging higher-density uses and taller buildings closer to the rail platform, the code also requires wider sidewalks, bike paths and more landscaping and trees. For instance, the code allows four-story, mixed-use buildings within the core area of the development, and three-story buildings beyond it, Parrott said.

"The closer you are to the station, the denser and more intensity you can have," he said.

The intent of DeBary's code is not to require development to be certain things, but to encourage it, Councilman Norm Erickson said.

Landowners who already have their desired zoning in the area would only be asked to consider opting into following the code.

"In a sense, it puts the market into the scenario," he said. "It's our hope that business owners and landowners down there will be offered deals or "incentives."

Parrott said one incentive to opt into the code will be a streamlined process of approvals from the city.
===

source: http://www.news-journalonline.com/ne...ain-depot.html
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Old December 2nd, 2010, 05:44 AM   #1987
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That Suburbanist lived in Wyoming...no wonder he thinks the U.S.of.A. is a big wide-open prarie!

So some facts. Fact #1. The United States as a whole is much denser east of the Mississippi than west of it. About as dense as France, in fact. In the Northeast, it is denser still--as dense as the Benelux. The Californian urban entities are likewise denser than the rest of the West.

Fact #2. The urban patterns east of the Mississippi and west of it differ substantially. The eastern urban-settlement patterns are, in fact, not so different from their European counterparts. City bleeds into country bleeds into city again, and even the countryside is fairly heavily populated. West of it, though, the cities are disparate entities without much in between. As a consequence of this, HSR in the American west would be mostly point-to-point type services, since there are maybe two or three good places to stop between, say, Phoenix and Albuquerque, or Denver and Kansas City. In the East, by contrast, with the far denser settlement patterns, there are a good deal more places to stop at, which fuels higher ridership.

Fact #3. Despite serious disinvestment, U.S. transit ridership has been rising constantly for the past decade. I've seen the charts in person as part of my professional and technical expertise. This has happened despite continuing disinvestment and funding procurement problems on e.g. SEPTA (Philadelphia's mass-transit network).

Fact #4. A Northeast HSR for half Amtrak's current proposal's price tag is feasible. Drop those new ROWs and that ridiculous seven-mile long deep-bore tunnel through the heart of Philadelphia, and instead use current alignments with much shorter tunnels and flyovers to ease the sharpest curves. Utilize existing station infrastructure wherever possible, and be aware that it's OK to have tighter curves on station leads where there's no reason for the trains to be going anywhere near 150 mph anyway. Simple things like that.* Reduced capital costs means reduced debt services means faster profitability.
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Old December 2nd, 2010, 09:36 AM   #1988
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Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
That Suburbanist lived in Wyoming...no wonder he thinks the U.S.of.A. is a big wide-open prarie!

So some facts. Fact #1. The United States as a whole is much denser east of the Mississippi than west of it. About as dense as France, in fact. In the Northeast, it is denser still--as dense as the Benelux. The Californian urban entities are likewise denser than the rest of the West.

Fact #2. The urban patterns east of the Mississippi and west of it differ substantially. The eastern urban-settlement patterns are, in fact, not so different from their European counterparts. City bleeds into country bleeds into city again, and even the countryside is fairly heavily populated. West of it, though, the cities are disparate entities without much in between. As a consequence of this, HSR in the American west would be mostly point-to-point type services, since there are maybe two or three good places to stop between, say, Phoenix and Albuquerque, or Denver and Kansas City. In the East, by contrast, with the far denser settlement patterns, there are a good deal more places to stop at, which fuels higher ridership.

Fact #3. Despite serious disinvestment, U.S. transit ridership has been rising constantly for the past decade. I've seen the charts in person as part of my professional and technical expertise. This has happened despite continuing disinvestment and funding procurement problems on e.g. SEPTA (Philadelphia's mass-transit network).

Fact #4. A Northeast HSR for half Amtrak's current proposal's price tag is feasible. Drop those new ROWs and that ridiculous seven-mile long deep-bore tunnel through the heart of Philadelphia, and instead use current alignments with much shorter tunnels and flyovers to ease the sharpest curves. Utilize existing station infrastructure wherever possible, and be aware that it's OK to have tighter curves on station leads where there's no reason for the trains to be going anywhere near 150 mph anyway. Simple things like that.* Reduced capital costs means reduced debt services means faster profitability.
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* Remind me to write a letter to Rep. Mica (R-FL, Chairman-to-be, Senate Transportation Committee) telling him this, considering he's already on board with NE HSR anyway.
Well all the Intercity lines are in planning or UC....there mostly cheap lines that would at least 15,000-30,000 each to the Amtrak system. These are also easy to restore or expand type of lines , mostly needing New Tracks , signals , and slight bridge / tunnels. No New Bridges or any large scale construction is needed. As for the ROW it was purchased decades ago or is owned by another Transit / Dot agency.

The HSR lines are all proposed , but like you said the New Mica guy supports NE HSR so getting funding sound be easier.
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Old December 6th, 2010, 01:15 AM   #1989
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Geez, another "this is 'better' America" argument. It's really hard to keep the discussion if you assume, beforehand, that part of America (the one where you live, of course) is better than the rest of the country, live the place where I lived (Laramie, Wyoming), and that other regions voters' stupidity is what is blocking the advancement of US...

Tea Party almost won with their 2nd wackiest candidate in the Northeast. Only that even wackier lady from Nevada beat her...
Proof that democracy is not necessarily a good thing.
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Old December 6th, 2010, 01:37 AM   #1990
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Proof that democracy is not necessarily a good thing.
Though not perfect, democracy is less worse than any other regime, beggnning with dictatorship-sponsored infrastructure projects in China.
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Old December 6th, 2010, 07:50 AM   #1991
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Though not perfect, democracy is less worse than any other regime, beggnning with dictatorship-sponsored infrastructure projects in China.
Yet, the US is thinking very hard -- on conning China (the BIGGEST american Banker) to finance their HST build up using ZERO Down payment method.

Someone need to jail the China government officials who are so foolish to even consider transferring the China HST tech to GE for a bunch of worthless USD Toilet Paper for treason.

US the #1 democracy in the world should be strong and smart enough to INVENT and build their OWN HST system from scratch, instead of buying other nation HST technology. US is not some Porky Republic run by a bunch of stupid rednecks.
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Old December 6th, 2010, 09:52 AM   #1992
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Originally Posted by Mika Montwald View Post
Yet, the US is thinking very hard -- on conning China (the BIGGEST american Banker) to finance their HST build up using ZERO Down payment method.

Someone need to jail the China government officials who are so foolish to even consider transferring the China HST tech to GE for a bunch of worthless USD Toilet Paper for treason.

US the #1 democracy in the world should be strong and smart enough to INVENT and build their OWN HST system from scratch, instead of buying other nation HST technology. US is not some Porky Republic run by a bunch of stupid rednecks.
Trouble is, that statement was more true in 1980. If GE wants in on the market, they can ill afford to spend some 15 years in R&D to create a new HST technology (besides, their "innovations"--I'm looking at you, Aero Train--don't have a good track record). Korea's Rotem basically got Alstom's 1990 TGV tech as a starter kit and look what novel directions they've gone with it.

GE's 30 years behind the 8-ball here and I'm sure they know it.
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Old December 6th, 2010, 02:19 PM   #1993
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Originally Posted by Mika Montwald View Post
Yet, the US is thinking very hard -- on conning China (the BIGGEST american Banker) to finance their HST build up using ZERO Down payment method.

Someone need to jail the China government officials who are so foolish to even consider transferring the China HST tech to GE for a bunch of worthless USD Toilet Paper for treason.
If China was more clever, it would simply buy US companies instead of buying useless 0% US government titles to get rid of their dollars. It would succeed in getting rid of the dollars to keep the yuan undervaluated and would give them cash cows in the process.
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Old December 6th, 2010, 02:21 PM   #1994
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It has also to do with a shift to financial short-term performance in most Western industrial companies as industry became less and less important in the economic portfolio of developed rich nations. Under a financial managerial POV, it is absolutely non-sense to spend 15 years and billions to develop a product (HST systems + vehicles) whose demand was (15 years ago) dubious. Any decent M&A or financial buyout strategy would have paid off more than investing in R&D for a new train.

However, for what is best and worse, these days of excessive focus on financial non-operational activities as the core of industrial companies are winding out.
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Old December 6th, 2010, 03:31 PM   #1995
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If China was more clever, it would simply buy US companies instead of buying useless 0% US government titles to get rid of their dollars. ... ...
Sorry: Off Topic -- The next back & forth replies will be via PM

1) Plenty of Senior China government officials are so stupid and idiotic when they are evaluating about US general public opinion regarding China. These government officials are so brainwashed that they are NOT able to see that 85% of US general public are treating China as their public enemy #1 forever.


2) 99% of U.S. lawmakers and 85% of US general public will ALWAYS BLOCK every investment (Jobs creation projects in America) coming from China for the reason of national security.

This (Jobs creation projects in America) investments from China blocking has been going on for a long, long time.
Please check the story below:


Quote:
... ...
A bipartisan group of 50 U.S. lawmakers called on Friday for an investigation into whether a Chinese investment in the U.S. steel sector should be blocked on national security grounds ... ...
Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6614HC20100702
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Old December 6th, 2010, 09:04 PM   #1996
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look who is trolling the US rail thread now.. Mika. Are American or European companies allowed to buy PRC Steel companies?
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Old December 6th, 2010, 09:07 PM   #1997
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Originally Posted by Mika Montwald View Post
Yet, the US is thinking very hard -- on conning China (the BIGGEST american Banker) to finance their HST build up using ZERO Down payment method.

Someone need to jail the China government officials who are so foolish to even consider transferring the China HST tech to GE for a bunch of worthless USD Toilet Paper for treason.

US the #1 democracy in the world should be strong and smart enough to INVENT and build their OWN HST system from scratch, instead of buying other nation HST technology. US is not some Porky Republic run by a bunch of stupid rednecks.
Wasn't this how Chinese High speed rail got started? If your gonna try to troll. At least be consistent. Guess China should send back everything European or Japanese related and start over.
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Old December 6th, 2010, 10:34 PM   #1998
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Though not perfect, democracy is less worse than any other regime, beggnning with dictatorship-sponsored infrastructure projects in China.
That's true in many area, however in terms of infrastructure, the recent investment did benefit the general population more than anybody. That's also why I think the US government should never treat infrastructure projects as nothing but political capital. Compare to tax cuts, the impact may not be as direct or as quickly, but in the long run they will keep this nation strong.
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Old December 6th, 2010, 10:37 PM   #1999
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Trouble is, that statement was more true in 1980. If GE wants in on the market, they can ill afford to spend some 15 years in R&D to create a new HST technology (besides, their "innovations"--I'm looking at you, Aero Train--don't have a good track record). Korea's Rotem basically got Alstom's 1990 TGV tech as a starter kit and look what novel directions they've gone with it.

GE's 30 years behind the 8-ball here and I'm sure they know it.
I don't think GE is technically behind that much, they still have a world class engineering team that Chinese companies can only dream about. CNR or CSR is currently ahead simply because they are in the HSR market, and GE is not, if GE put its mind into it I doubt it'll be too difficult to catch up. Just look at who's pulling trains going to Tibet, it's a fleet of 78 GE NJ2 locomotives.
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Old December 7th, 2010, 01:33 AM   #2000
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That's true in many area, however in terms of infrastructure, the recent investment did benefit the general population more than anybody. That's also why I think the US government should never treat infrastructure projects as nothing but political capital.
This is just a sum of, IMO, a 30-years overreaction by a poisoned coalition of environwackos and NIMBYs.

The single greatest public works projects, namely the Eisenhower Interstate Highway System, was designed, financed and built by a democratic government.

However, it wouldn't stand a chance if it was being planned from scratch now because every single tree cutting requires a permit, an environmental useless assessment and so. But laws can be changed and infrastructure design and permit phases streamlined.
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