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Old December 8th, 2010, 12:15 AM   #2001
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Our great interstate's full name is "Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways." So it's partially a national defense installation from the beginning. I guess the only way HSR can become a reality is that Pentagon wants to build a HSR network to mobilize ICBMs.
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Old December 8th, 2010, 06:53 PM   #2002
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Though not perfect, democracy is less worse than any other regime, beggnning with dictatorship-sponsored infrastructure projects in China.
Democracy means that the state is run by often ignorant and/or uneducated masses. But the masses running the state is not the problem. The problem is that the behavior of these same masses is overwhelmingly being shaped by large corporations ... mostly by various forms of propaganda in the medias. So we have the situation that large corporations are the real decision makers in western democracies.

Undemocratic regimes, if well organized, can offer much more prosperity and progress for their inhabitants because their specter of actions is not confined by public opinion which is on its turn created by the large corporations. So we have the example of China which in couple of years did what the West had done in couple of decades. China is doing much more on developing renewable energy sources than US. Why? Because in the US they have powerful corporations who are turning the people against it via media and blocking the necessary legislation via the so called representatives of the people in the legislative bodies that actually work for them. I believe China's politics is much more influenced by science and experts who know what they are doing and not by the populists elected by the brainwashed people.
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Old December 8th, 2010, 07:07 PM   #2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BE0GRAD View Post
Democracy means that the state is run by often ignorant and/or uneducated masses. But the masses running the state is not the problem. The problem is that the behavior of these same masses is overwhelmingly being shaped by large corporations ... mostly by various forms of propaganda in the medias. So we have the situation that large corporations are the real decision makers in western democracies.

Undemocratic regimes, if well organized, can offer much more prosperity and progress for their inhabitants because their specter of actions is not confined by public opinion which is on its turn created by the large corporations. So we have the example of China which in couple of years did what the West had done in couple of decades. China is doing much more on developing renewable energy sources than US. Why? Because in the US they have powerful corporations who are turning the people against it via media and blocking the necessary legislation via the so called representatives of the people in the legislative bodies that actually work for them. I believe China's politics is much more influenced by science and experts who know what they are doing and not by the populists elected by the brainwashed people.

Thank you. Bravo, very well articulated!
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Old December 8th, 2010, 08:13 PM   #2004
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Yeah, in China they censor media, bully Nobel Prize commission, shut up and jail dissidents, crack upon minorities, don't care about individual rights when preempting and taking property but, well, they build nice infrastructure so that is all fine?

Hitler build some very nice infrastructure in Germany too. And his hateful policies were supposedly scientific by the time.

Your argument is very totalitarian, based on an assumption that people cannot think of themselves and need "rulers" to punish them for being "dumb" and knowing "what is best for them" and imposing such policies regardless of everything and, worse, without giving you the right to protest or oppose. Forced social cohesion, done with heavy censorship (Google-affair anyone?), state-controlled press and etc.

Sorry, if you are envy of the evil Chinese government, apply now for a visa to China, then don't complain when you get framed and railroaded by a corrupt local office and shot to death in a made-up allegation. Then the cost of the bullet will be charged to your family here in Europe (assuming you live in Serbia).

If people are brainwashed, it's their fault. In a time of Internet (not censored, in opposition to what happens in China), it's people's own fault if they get brainwashed. Then, if they elect the "wrong" representatives, it is the people's fault, and then they deserve dysfunctional government they might get. If people "couldn't care less" about politics and elections, then, again, they deserve the results - uncontrolled partisanship and gridlock. Information has never been so easily accessible and if people don't want to think, it's their own choice. 30 years ago you'd have night-time newscast and so, today we have Internet

This tolerance of dictatorship governments as a trade-off for a government who "actually put projects forward" is very worrisome for me here on SSC. Never mind the oppressed Chinese, those who had their houses seized without compensation, or other property stolen, or relatives imprisoned by the only crime of disagreeing with a petty government officer cannot speak most of the time... So it seems YOU are the one brainwashed with the evil-rooted success of the Chinese government, which I hope will fail, and fail big and in shame ASAP, like other communists governments did in the late 80's in Eastern Europe.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 08:27 AM   #2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BE0GRAD View Post
Undemocratic regimes, if well organized, can offer much more prosperity and progress for their inhabitants because their specter of actions is not confined by public opinion which is on its turn created by the large corporations. So we have the example of China which in couple of years did what the West had done in couple of decades.
What China is doing is not that much different from what the West did when it had just started industrializing. The bulk of the current European and American railway network was build in just a few decades. When you start from way back you can make a lot of progress initially, and China has the advantage of being part of a 21st century world. If technology to run trains at 300kph per hour had been available in 1830 Europe would have had 100000 km of high speed rail by 1860.

Quote:
China is doing much more on developing renewable energy sources than US.
I doubt that statement is actually true...

Quote:
Why? Because in the US they have powerful corporations who are turning the people against it via media and blocking the necessary legislation via the so called representatives of the people in the legislative bodies that actually work for them.
I find it always weird to see people with an anti corporation agenda argue in a way that implies they believe they are motivated by everything but making money...
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Old December 9th, 2010, 08:28 AM   #2006
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
This tolerance of dictatorship governments as a trade-off for a government who "actually put projects forward" is very worrisome for me here on SSC. Never mind the oppressed Chinese, those who had their houses seized without compensation, or other property stolen, or relatives imprisoned by the only crime of disagreeing with a petty government officer cannot speak most of the time... So it seems YOU are the one brainwashed with the evil-rooted success of the Chinese government, which I hope will fail, and fail big and in shame ASAP, like other communists governments did in the late 80's in Eastern Europe.
You know, you've actually managed to post something that I 100% agree with.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 09:29 AM   #2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Yeah, in China they censor media, bully Nobel Prize commission, shut up and jail dissidents, crack upon minorities, don't care about individual rights when preempting and taking property but, well, they build nice infrastructure so that is all fine?

Hitler build some very nice infrastructure in Germany too. And his hateful policies were supposedly scientific by the time.

Your argument is very totalitarian, based on an assumption that people cannot think of themselves and need "rulers" to punish them for being "dumb" and knowing "what is best for them" and imposing such policies regardless of everything and, worse, without giving you the right to protest or oppose. Forced social cohesion, done with heavy censorship (Google-affair anyone?), state-controlled press and etc.

Sorry, if you are envy of the evil Chinese government, apply now for a visa to China, then don't complain when you get framed and railroaded by a corrupt local office and shot to death in a made-up allegation. Then the cost of the bullet will be charged to your family here in Europe (assuming you live in Serbia).

If people are brainwashed, it's their fault. In a time of Internet (not censored, in opposition to what happens in China), it's people's own fault if they get brainwashed. Then, if they elect the "wrong" representatives, it is the people's fault, and then they deserve dysfunctional government they might get. If people "couldn't care less" about politics and elections, then, again, they deserve the results - uncontrolled partisanship and gridlock. Information has never been so easily accessible and if people don't want to think, it's their own choice. 30 years ago you'd have night-time newscast and so, today we have Internet

This tolerance of dictatorship governments as a trade-off for a government who "actually put projects forward" is very worrisome for me here on SSC. Never mind the oppressed Chinese, those who had their houses seized without compensation, or other property stolen, or relatives imprisoned by the only crime of disagreeing with a petty government officer cannot speak most of the time... So it seems YOU are the one brainwashed with the evil-rooted success of the Chinese government, which I hope will fail, and fail big and in shame ASAP, like other communists governments did in the late 80's in Eastern Europe.
I could hardly be brainwashed by the Chinese since I don't follow their media and don't speak the language.

Anyway, although it seams like that , I don't prefer undemocratic regimes and I wouldn't like to see Serbia becoming undemocratic. On the other hand, I would like to see a more active and more responsible state which will make attention from where its inhabitants get information and if that information has a hidden agenda.

As a Serb I know very well how western propaganda works. It doesn't necessarily lie but definitely doesn't say the entire truth. That's how today most people in the West believe that Serbia is a "Nazi Germany of the Balkans" , that only Serbs are war criminals and that Kosovo deserved independence. That's how Americans believed that Iraq had WMD , that they are fighting for "freedom and democracy" etc.

It is interesting that the West always speaks of tolerating the differences ,but when someone thinks or functions differently than them they show all but tolerance. China has its own system and it works very well. It has serious faults but that can be considered a lesser evil. It will become more democratic over time, but only when it is ready and not when the West decides.

As for Nobel Peace Prize ... that is just a show with political nature rewarding persons who lobbied the most for western interests. USA attacks a country every few years yet the presidents ordering these attacks get a "peace prize". Gorbachov got a prize for destroying USSR, Liu and Dalai Liama for sabotaging China etc. None of these persons did anything for world peace.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 09:34 AM   #2008
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Quote:
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I find it always weird to see people with an anti corporation agenda argue in a way that implies they believe they are motivated by everything but making money...
I actually do think that they are interested only in making money. That's why creating a consumer mentality suits them well.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 10:53 AM   #2009
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Can we please save the US vs. the World or China for another thread......

Over the next few days i will be showing off US systems in Detail....mostly the Northeastern US.....

Now back to US Railway projects.....

Metro North is upgrading the Majority of its stations , Bridges , signals and switches , along with Expanding and restoring a Railways.

Current System size : 156 mi
added miles of Electrified Rail (3rd Rail) : 83 mi
added miles of Diesel Rail : 167 mi


The MNRR has upgraded a few stations on the Harlem , Hudson lines...

Upgraded Station - Dobbs Ferry



Upgraded Tracks

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/inikham...n/photostream/

New Train Fleets

Metro North M8

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/3378689...n/photostream/
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Old December 9th, 2010, 08:37 PM   #2010
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I don't think GE is technically behind that much, they still have a world class engineering team that Chinese companies can only dream about. CNR or CSR is currently ahead simply because they are in the HSR market, and GE is not, if GE put its mind into it I doubt it'll be too difficult to catch up. Just look at who's pulling trains going to Tibet, it's a fleet of 78 GE NJ2 locomotives.
Yeah, I was probably exaggerating a bit...AFAIK HST R&D from scratch takes about 15 years, whereas starting from a proven technology, as Rotem and CRH have done, takes only a decade. Furthermore, Rotem and CRH have had the benefit of being able to run the off-the-shelf equipment in their captive markets until the new product comes out. In any event, however, the longer it takes to deliver a (quality) product to market the worse off GE will be--remember, most of its major competitors (Alstom, Siemens, Talgo, AnsaldoBreda, Kawasaki, Hitachi, Rotem) all have HSR tech already.

EDIT: To make things worse for GE, they're in the locomotive business, not the railcar business, and since the Siemens Velaro (ICE 3) came out the key innovation in HST has been the replacement of TGV Atlantique-style motorcar-driven coaches in place of EMUs. GE has built EMUs before--back in the '70s--but has not had an EMU offering in some 30 years.
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Old December 11th, 2010, 04:04 AM   #2011
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METRO Light Rail in Phoenix AZ

image hosted on flickr
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Old December 11th, 2010, 01:59 PM   #2012
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METRO Light Rail in Phoenix AZ

image hosted on flickr
No thats light rail , this thread as i stated is for Regional Rail , Intercity Rail and Trunk line railways....
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Old December 11th, 2010, 02:06 PM   #2013
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Upgraded Tracks
Do you have a google maps link to the position of this tracks?
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Old December 11th, 2010, 04:26 PM   #2014
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Do you have a google maps link to the position of this tracks?
Yes.....i made a Map of the Complete MNRR Current and Proposed / Planned System.

Diesel Railways - Current and Proposed / Planned
Electrified Railways - Current and Proposed / Planned
Light Rail - Planned

Current System

MNRR Harlem line
MNRR Hudson line

MNRR Port Jervis line
MNRR New Canaan Branch
MNRR Waterbury line
MNRR Danbury Branch


Planned Expansions

MNRR I-287 Rail Corridor
MNRR West Shore line


Proposed Expansions

MNRR Beacon line
MNRR Graham line


http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en...469177&t=p&z=9

Location of pictures

Picture 1 , is located in Dobbs Ferry,NY on the Hudson line

Picture 2 , is located near Beacon,NY on the Hudson line

Picture 3 , is located on the New Haven line near Bridgeport,CT
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Old December 11th, 2010, 10:33 PM   #2015
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Quote:
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No thats light rail , this thread as i stated is for Regional Rail , Intercity Rail and Trunk line railways....
You just said "no freight". But whatevs.

Quote:
Quote:
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The US needed a Rail thread for all the Current & Future projects. This is a Regular Passenger Rail thread , not freight. Regular Rail is anything form 30-120mph in my book anything higher is HSR. There are a ton of projects going on across the country , whether its upgrading or expanding systems or replacing fleets.
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Old December 11th, 2010, 10:51 PM   #2016
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You just said "no freight". But whatevs.
Sorry if that came off as rude , i just don't want this thread to go off course anymore then it has. There is no Phoenix Public Transit thread....
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Old December 12th, 2010, 05:16 PM   #2017
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Yeah, I was probably exaggerating a bit...AFAIK HST R&D from scratch takes about 15 years, whereas starting from a proven technology, as Rotem and CRH have done, takes only a decade. Furthermore, Rotem and CRH have had the benefit of being able to run the off-the-shelf equipment in their captive markets until the new product comes out. In any event, however, the longer it takes to deliver a (quality) product to market the worse off GE will be--remember, most of its major competitors (Alstom, Siemens, Talgo, AnsaldoBreda, Kawasaki, Hitachi, Rotem) all have HSR tech already.

EDIT: To make things worse for GE, they're in the locomotive business, not the railcar business, and since the Siemens Velaro (ICE 3) came out the key innovation in HST has been the replacement of TGV Atlantique-style motorcar-driven coaches in place of EMUs. GE has built EMUs before--back in the '70s--but has not had an EMU offering in some 30 years.
It's a shame, most of the smaller companies in the HSR business have already been merged with the larger ones (Fiat Ferrovaria, Adtranz) because GE had the money to buy one of them. Now GE is struggling to catch up, and I'm not even sure they really are. GE is going to have to get into the game quickly, perhaps by buying another company such as Talgo or AnsaldoBreda; that's more or less what Bombardier did.

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I know it is ridiculous. this whole thing with this country lately is one big laugh. nothing gets done. lots of words and promises and nothing else. we can do shit these days it seems.
It truly is a shame.

One thing that has held US train maufacturers behind is our non-electrification- without the need to produce electric locomotives, we're starting from an even lower base than other country's companies.
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Old December 12th, 2010, 05:35 PM   #2018
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Hmm, I wonder just how much older the root design is, coz I saw a such a train (a trans-island service) at Jamaica Center Easter 2002, with a differnent loco, mind you.
The design of the BiLevel coaches is old, goes back to the 70's, if my memory serves me correctly. The manufacturer is Bombardier.
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Old December 12th, 2010, 11:39 PM   #2019
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The design of the BiLevel coaches is old, goes back to the 70's, if my memory serves me correctly. The manufacturer is Bombardier.
The original order of Superliners was in the late 1970's and was built by Pullman. The Superliner II order was in the mid-90's and was built by Bombadier.

The Superliner design though was heavily based off the 1956 Santa Fe Hi-Level cars. So that's when the design truly originated.
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Old December 13th, 2010, 03:06 AM   #2020
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It's a shame, most of the smaller companies in the HSR business have already been merged with the larger ones (Fiat Ferrovaria, Adtranz) because GE had the money to buy one of them. Now GE is struggling to catch up, and I'm not even sure they really are. GE is going to have to get into the game quickly, perhaps by buying another company such as Talgo or AnsaldoBreda; that's more or less what Bombardier did.



It truly is a shame.

One thing that has held US train maufacturers behind is our non-electrification- without the need to produce electric locomotives, we're starting from an even lower base than other country's companies.
Again, GE can take a page from China's play book. "Okay, you wanna enter CAHSR bid, fine, share the tech." With the CSR-GE joint venture on the way, GE can get all the CRH380 tech and innovate on top of it. It'll take probably less than five years for GE to become a true competitor.
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