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Old February 24th, 2011, 02:58 AM   #2081
Nexis
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Apprently i never showed this hear....

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Old February 24th, 2011, 11:32 AM   #2082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
You don't want a crew to perform engineering works while trains pass them 1m away at 270km/h. Not even at 200km/h. The speed reduction needed means long acceleration spans and degraded average speed. It is better to shut down the whole system for 4-5 hours a day so all work can be performed in optimal conditions.
Slowing down to 160km/h costs about 3 minutes. In many circumstances this is a performance impact that is operationally acceptable at night when the line is lightly used.

Closing down an entire line for 'optimal conditions' is only required when those 'optimal conditions' are required. Obvious I would have thought but apparently not.

Typically you are condensing all situations down to one particular Suburbanist view and contriving a one-size-fits-all solution. However, we aren't discussing unicorns here, we are discussing things that actually exist and actually happen. You can choose to accept what actually happens on actual railways throughout the world, or not.

Bi-directional operation on nearly all HSLs worldwide is utilised for.......?
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Old February 24th, 2011, 07:39 PM   #2083
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AFAIK, HSL in France, Belgium, Italy and France all get "black-out" periods.
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Old February 25th, 2011, 01:39 PM   #2084
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So what? I didn't say they didn't, and I didn't say total possessions weren't used for engineering.

Typical yet again, misunderstanding the point.

Now, having rebutted your straw man, repeat

Quote:
Closing down an entire line for 'optimal conditions' is only required when those 'optimal conditions' are required. Obvious I would have thought but apparently not.

Typically you are condensing all situations down to one particular Suburbanist view and contriving a one-size-fits-all solution. However, we aren't discussing unicorns here, we are discussing things that actually exist and actually happen. You can choose to accept what actually happens on actual railways throughout the world, or not.
Bi-directional operation on nearly all HSLs worldwide is utilised for.......?
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Old February 26th, 2011, 06:27 AM   #2085
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Why is Hoboken station still low platform?
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Old February 27th, 2011, 02:30 PM   #2086
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Why is Hoboken station still low platform?
Too expensive to raise them , it would destroy the historic canopy...
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Old February 28th, 2011, 09:30 AM   #2087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
AFAIK, HSL in France, Belgium, Italy and France all get "black-out" periods.
They even have maintenance windows during the day. Which means that in Paris Nord, which is supposedly one of the busiest stations in Europe there are no departures whatsoever for 1 1/2 hours over lunchtime. It really boggles the mind that SNCF chooses to run it's railway like that.
Closing down at night every night is not needed either. It's a sign of how much the French and Italian railways are still stuck in the 19th century that they do this.
(Belgium to a certain extent also suffers from this French Disease...)
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Old February 28th, 2011, 09:35 AM   #2088
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Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post
This is true, but depending on the frequencies/headways on said HSL, this would be detrimental in running a reliable service. Especially for a business traveler, convenience and on-time performance are paramount, as time, rather than money is what is at a premium.
And because punctuality and reliability are paramount trains are scheduled with some recovery time included, so that one maintenance related slow zone doesn't affect on time performance.
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Old February 28th, 2011, 10:23 AM   #2089
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And because punctuality and reliability are paramount trains are scheduled with some recovery time included, so that one maintenance related slow zone doesn't affect on time performance.
Not always true, the Tokaido shinkansen has only about 5 minute lead time between trains making it impossible for maintenance related slow zone to work without effecting the entire schedule.
They do maintenance in the night between 11PM and 5AM with brute manpower.
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Old February 28th, 2011, 01:30 PM   #2090
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Quote:
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They even have maintenance windows during the day. Which means that in Paris Nord, which is supposedly one of the busiest stations in Europe there are no departures whatsoever for 1 1/2 hours over lunchtime. It really boggles the mind that SNCF chooses to run it's railway like that.
Closing down at night every night is not needed either. It's a sign of how much the French and Italian railways are still stuck in the 19th century that they do this.
(Belgium to a certain extent also suffers from this French Disease...)
Yeah they even did that on HS2 in the UK until the domestic services started (at which point the the incumbent UK operator SouthEastern and everyone obviously spat out their coffee when they were informed the line is shut for 1 and a half hours in the middle of the day, and said, don't be bloody stupid, what for?

To inspect the track.

Can't you do that at night?

Actually, yes.

And so the silly practice was overturned.)
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Old February 28th, 2011, 02:32 PM   #2091
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MBTA Commuter Rail....

There are plans for more Electrification and EMU's for a few lines...

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Old February 28th, 2011, 04:57 PM   #2092
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Not always true, the Tokaido shinkansen has only about 5 minute lead time between trains making it impossible for maintenance related slow zone to work without effecting the entire schedule.
And may HSLs run trains at 3 or even 2 minute intervals. But I wasn't suggesting doing maintenance during the busiest hours. I was suggesting doing it at night, when traffic is less intense and closing one track out of two doesn't hamper operations that much. That way the line can stay open and be used for late night trains, overnight trains etc...

BTW, a slow zone doesn't affect line capacity on a HSL. With 5 minutes between trains you run 12 trains per hour, regardless whether your speed is 160 or 300. A slow zone doesn't affect capacity. Closing one track however does...
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Old February 28th, 2011, 05:22 PM   #2093
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Quote:
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And may HSLs run trains at 3 or even 2 minute intervals. But I wasn't suggesting doing maintenance during the busiest hours. I was suggesting doing it at night, when traffic is less intense and closing one track out of two doesn't hamper operations that much. That way the line can stay open and be used for late night trains, overnight trains etc...

BTW, a slow zone doesn't affect line capacity on a HSL. With 5 minutes between trains you run 12 trains per hour, regardless whether your speed is 160 or 300. A slow zone doesn't affect capacity. Closing one track however does...
You really do not understand what you are talking about.
If distance between point A and point B is C Km and you need 10Km safety distance then you can put X amount of trains within the two points at an average speed of Y but if you create a bottle neck between point A and B throttling speed then you need to reduce the X amount of trains so to maintain safety distance while maintaining average speed Y so you can keep up with the time table if not then the time table goes out of whack affecting capacity.
At the end capacity is total amount of people traveling between Point A and Point B at a given time so if there is a reduction of speed then naturally capacity will be affected.
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Old February 28th, 2011, 09:49 PM   #2094
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Why do a lot of U.S. passenger cars look like heavy armoured tanks? Is that legal requirements?
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Old February 28th, 2011, 11:20 PM   #2095
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Why do a lot of U.S. passenger cars look like heavy armoured tanks? Is that legal requirements?
sort of. They are required by law to be able to withstand a head on collision with a freight train.
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Old February 28th, 2011, 11:23 PM   #2096
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Why do a lot of U.S. passenger cars look like heavy armoured tanks? Is that legal requirements?
I suppose this is because of the different weight requirement in the US. See, the US has a entirely different policy regarding rail-street-crossings. Trains must be heavy enough so they can easily push any truck or car off the tracks without derailing or having the passengers being affected.

This require most of the trains to be i think something like 40-50% heavier than for example european trains.

But i don't know about head on collision with freight trains, that doesn't sound much plausible to me.
Perhaps someones knows more and can enlighten us
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Old February 28th, 2011, 11:28 PM   #2097
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To Nexis: Commuter Rail is going to run electric trains?

I always thought they still retained their "trains need to run anywhere at anytime" excuse for not purchasing electrics and multiple units.

It would seem to me that running electrics on electrified lines would only be possible if Amtrak was the one operating Commuter Rail.
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Old March 1st, 2011, 04:50 AM   #2098
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To Nexis: Commuter Rail is going to run electric trains?

I always thought they still retained their "trains need to run anywhere at anytime" excuse for not purchasing electrics and multiple units.

It would seem to me that running electrics on electrified lines would only be possible if Amtrak was the one operating Commuter Rail.
Amtrak wants the MBTA to buy and use EMU's on the Providence line , Amtrak also is looking into restoring the Cape Cod line and that would be electrified..... So a Few MBTA lines sometime in the 2020s will be electrified......if a private investor comes along the MBTA would like to Electrify its entire South Station network.

Trenton Transit Center.... Serves : Amtrak , NJT Northeast Corridor , Septa Trenton line , RiverLine (Future West Trenton / Statehouse Riverline Extension)
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Old March 1st, 2011, 05:20 AM   #2099
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Trenton is a nice little station. In my top 10 for sure, in favorite stations.
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Old March 1st, 2011, 05:38 AM   #2100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
Amtrak wants the MBTA to buy and use EMU's on the Providence line , Amtrak also is looking into restoring the Cape Cod line and that would be electrified..... So a Few MBTA lines sometime in the 2020s will be electrified......if a private investor comes along the MBTA would like to Electrify its entire South Station network.
If Amtrak has a lot of influence over Commuter Rail then sure, that could be a possibility.

As for electrification of the railway in the Cape, that is definitely not going to happen. The NIMBY resistance would be unprecedented.
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