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Old August 14th, 2011, 10:32 PM   #2181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
Just a short little aside, and maybe to address MarneGator's concern, I'd agree with the general implication that a Chicago-NYC HSR route seems obvious, if a bit on the long side using conventional technology, but before we could really even consider such a service, we'd have to get people comfortable with using passenger rail service on less ambitious (and economically-crucial) routes. Therefore, it makes more sense to focus on regional improvements rather than new interregional trains at present.
Regional trains in US is mostly about commuter traffic (lots of AM outer cities => central city trains, lots of PM central city => outer city services).

Fast(er) mid-distance rail could be more cheaply implemented on routes from Chicago to other directions than East, like Minneapolis, St. Louis, maybe Kansas City etc. Texas offer good terrain for cheap rail upgrades and new construction of small sectors/bypasses: mostly flat terrain, plenty of space to design railway bypasses or to widen ROWs of freight railways etc.

Indeed, many Mid-Western ROWs are very wide, but there is an intricate set of FRA rules and liability-avoidance policies from UP, BNSF and the likes requiring that should any parallel passenger rail be constructed for fast traffic alongside freight railways, very wide spacing should ensue (to prevent that a derailment of a freight train running parallel under far less advanced signaling protocols get hit by a fast-passing, in-cab, PTI-only 120mph passenger train.

Florida also has cheap construction costs, but no good original rail alignments and then there was all the political situation surrounding HSR Tampa-Orlando.
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Old August 14th, 2011, 10:42 PM   #2182
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First, there is no reason for personal insults.

Second, I'm discussing engineering, not ideology. Any road, by design, can cope with much tighter curves and higher grades because of the inherent technical characteristics of road vehicles (power, traction etc. etc).
Yes there are. Your incessant ass kissing of all things that burn oil and have rubber tires is not only foolish, but not objectively sustainable by ANY MEASURE.

I have no tolerance for insanity.

You are discussing ideology when you promote absurdly expensive and technologically difficult to construct road projects but shun similar RAIL projects. Your advocacy for the road is incompatible with peak oil, clean air, clean water, and conservation of resources- which must occur if humanity is to survive.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 02:33 AM   #2183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Regional trains in US is mostly about commuter traffic (lots of AM outer cities => central city trains, lots of PM central city => outer city services).

Fast(er) mid-distance rail could be more cheaply implemented on routes from Chicago to other directions than East, like Minneapolis, St. Louis, maybe Kansas City etc. Texas offer good terrain for cheap rail upgrades and new construction of small sectors/bypasses: mostly flat terrain, plenty of space to design railway bypasses or to widen ROWs of freight railways etc.
The Chicago-St. Louis line is in the process of being upgraded right now, is it not?

Quote:
Indeed, many Mid-Western ROWs are very wide, but there is an intricate set of FRA rules and liability-avoidance policies from UP, BNSF and the likes requiring that should any parallel passenger rail be constructed for fast traffic alongside freight railways, very wide spacing should ensue (to prevent that a derailment of a freight train running parallel under far less advanced signaling protocols get hit by a fast-passing, in-cab, PTI-only 120mph passenger train.

Florida also has cheap construction costs, but no good original rail alignments and then there was all the political situation surrounding HSR Tampa-Orlando.
Out of curiosity, do you (or anyone else) know why the Orlando-Miami route wasn't first up? It does seem like HSR from Tampa to Orlando would mostly be a tourist attraction.

I know there's a separate regional rail thread for the U.S., but that leaves me thinking, (is this off topic?): what exactly is this thread here to discuss?

I suppose I should have phrased it differently; I was just thinking that because Chicago to NYC is a long distance for a contemporary HSR line to cover and be competitive with air, it'd make sense to focus on the sort of corridors that are more feasible in terms of distance, especially on some place like the NEC where there's already a rider base, even taking into consideration the expense of ensuring true 150mph operation across that particular line.

It still seems backwards to me that we're not willing/able to put forward the required funding just to pull ROW out from most freight co's hands. That aside, it's painful just how obvious it is that a lot of the regulation hasn't even been touched in 50-60 years.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 03:30 AM   #2184
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Out of curiosity, do you (or anyone else) know why the Orlando-Miami route wasn't first up?
Because Tampa-Orlando was "shovel ready" and there were no approved plans, or money needed to complete an Orlando-Miami link.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 03:49 AM   #2185
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Pontiac, MI

The Detroit News
http://www.detnews.com/article/20110...--but-upgrades

Quote:
Last Updated: August 13. 2011 1:00AM
Pontiac's train station downsizes, but upgrades
MDOT announces track improvements for high-speed rail
Tom Greenwood/ The Detroit News

Pontiac — Pontiac officials hope the new $1.4 million Pontiac Transit Center, which opened this week, will help boost the struggling city's business center.

Amtrak hopes the new facility will attract even more riders to its growing rail service to Chicago.

The state-funded facility, which also serves Greyhound and SMART buses, was opened this week by the Michigan Department of Transportation to replace an oversize and dilapidated terminal downtown.

MDOT also announced an agreement with Norfolk Southern Railway to improve 135 miles of railroad, allowing the speed limit to be raised between Ypsilanti and Kalamazoo from 30 mph in some areas to 60 mph.

The agreement is intended to help pave the way for high-speed rail from Detroit to Chicago.

Mayor Leon Jukowski said the opening of the new center — in the 51000 block of Woodward, near the Phoenix Plaza Amphitheater — would help boost the image of the city, beset by crime and financial trouble.

"Anyone who was familiar with our old building would agree that it clearly needed to be torn down," Jukowski said.

"I think it will help improve the business climate, but it's not the silver bullet we need," he said. "It's clearly an upgrade, but it is only a part of the puzzle."

The 4,500-square-foot facility includes a passenger lobby with indoor ticket booth, seating and restrooms and canopies at both the bus and train platforms.

The $1.4 million for the facility is from the state's Comprehensive Transportation Fund.

Amtrak spokesman Marc Magliari said the rail carrier's Wolverine Service, with three daily round trips between Pontiac and Chicago, is gaining popularity.

"We're up about 9 percent for October 2010 through July 2011," he said. In fiscal year 2010, nearly 16,000 people traveled by Amtrak in Pontiac, up 10 percent over 2009. Through July, more than 12,000 passengers used Amtrak.

Magliari said the new transit center was needed. "The old one was oversized and clearly didn't work," he said.

Greyhound spokesman Tim Stokes said the company is happy about the new terminal but has no plans to increase the number of routes from the center.

Greyhound runs two buses daily from the transit center and up to eight buses on the weekend. In June, Norfolk Southern said it would drop the speed that Amtrak could run on its rails between Ypsilanti and Kalamazoo to as low as 30 mph.

Amtrak told its passengers the drop in speed could generate delays of up to 90 minutes between Pontiac and Chicago. But the agreement between MDOT and Norfolk Southern will allow speeds on the section to be raised.

"Once the tracks are upgraded, Amtrak passenger trains can go back up to speeds as high as 60 mph," said Jeff Cranson, director of communications for MDOT.

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Officials hope the new $1.4 million Pontiac Transit Center will bring more people to the city and stimulate its central business district. (Charles V. Tines / The Detroit News




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Old August 15th, 2011, 03:56 AM   #2186
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MDOT also announced an agreement with Norfolk Southern Railway to improve 135 miles of railroad, allowing the speed limit to be raised between Ypsilanti and Kalamazoo from 30 mph in some areas to 60 mph.
Isn't this the reversal of the downgrade and speed reduction the line suffered when Norfolk Southern decided to declassify the sector as a Classe-1 railway?
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Old August 17th, 2011, 10:30 PM   #2187
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Amtrak Northeastern Divison

Current / Proposed , Planned , Under Construction Stations

Northeast Regional - Main line
Boston South Station
Boston Back Bay Station
Route 128
Providence
Kingston
Westerly (Limited)
Mystic (Limited)
New London
Old Saybrook (Limited)
New Haven Union Station
Bridgeport
Stamford
New Rochelle
New York Penn station
Newark Penn Station
Newark Liberty International Airport (Limited)
Metropark
New Brunswick (Overnight)
Princeton JCT (Overnight)
Trenton
Cornwells Heights (limited)
North Philadelphia (Limted)
30th Street Station
Wilmington
Newark
Aberdeen
Baltimore Penn Station
BWI Airport
New Carrollton
DC Union Station
Alexandria
Woodbridge
Quantico
Fredricksburg
Ashland
Richmond Staples Mill Road
Richmond Main Street
Williamsburg
Newport News

Northeast Regional - Springfield Shuttle
Springfield
Windsor Locks
Windsor
Hartford
Berlin
Meriden
Wallingford
New Haven Union Station
Bridgeport
Stamford
New Rochelle
New York Penn station
Newark Penn Station
Newark Liberty International Airport
Metropark
New Brunswick
Princeton JCT
Trenton
Cornwells Heights
North Philadelphia
30th Street Station
Wilmington
Newark
Aberdeen
Baltimore Penn Station
BWI Airport
New Carrollton
DC Union Station

Northeast Regional - Lynchburg Branch
Boston South Station
Boston Back Bay Station
Route 128
Providence
Kingston
Westerly
Mystic
New London
Old Saybrook
New Haven Union Station
Bridgeport
Stamford
New Rochelle
New York Penn station
Newark Penn Station
Newark Liberty International Airport
Metropark
New Brunswick
Princeton JCT
Trenton
Cornwells Heights
North Philadelphia
30th Street Station
Wilmington
Newark
Aberdeen
Baltimore Penn Station
BWI Airport
New Carrollton
DC Union Station
Alexandria
Burke Centre
Manassas
Culpepper
Charlottesville
Lynchburg
Roanoke
Bristol


Vermonter
St. Albans
Burlington-Essex Junction
Waterbury-Stowe
Montpelier-Barre
Randolph
White River Junction
Windsor-Mt. Ascutney
Claremont
Bellows Falls
Brattleboro
Greenfield
Northampton
Holyoke

Springfield
Windsor Locks
Windsor
Hartford
Berlin
Meriden
Wallingford
New Haven Union Station
Bridgeport
Stamford
New Rochelle
New York Penn station
Newark Penn Station
Metropark (weekends only)
Trenton
30th Street Station
Wilmington
Baltimore Penn Station
BWI Airport
New Carrollton
DC Union Station

Acela Express
Boston South Station
Boston Back Bay
Route 128
Providence
New London
New Haven
Stamford
New York Penn Station
Newark Penn station
Metropark
Philadelphia
Wilmington
Baltimore Penn station
BWI Airport
DC Union Station

Keystone Service
New York Penn station
Newark Penn Station
Newark Liberty International Airport (Limited)
Metropark
New Brunswick (Overnight)
Princeton JCT (Overnight)
Trenton
Cornwells Heights (limited)
North Philadelphia (Limted)
30th Street Station
Ardmore
Paoli
Exton
Downingtown
Coatesville
Parkersburg
Lancaster
Mount Joy
Elizabethtown
Middletown
Harrisburg

Pennsylvanian
New York Penn Station
Newark Penn station
Trenton
30th Street Station
Ardmore (train 44 only)
Paoli
Exton (trains 42 & 44 only)
Downingtown (train 44 only)
Lancaster
Mount Joy
Elizabethtown
Middletown
Harrisburg
Lewistown
Huntingdon
Tyrone
Altoona
Johnstown
Latrobe
Greensburg
Pittsburgh

Empire Service
New York Penn station
Yonkers
Croton Harmon
Poughkeepsie
Rhinecliff-Kingston
Hudson
Albany-Rensselaer
Schenectady
Amsterdam
Utica
Rome
Syracuse
Rochester
Buffalo-Depew
Buffalo-Exchange St.
Niagara Falls

Downeaster Service
Boston North Station
Woburn
Haverhill
Exeter
Durham
Dover
Wells
Saco-Biddeford
Old Orchard Beach
Portland
Freeport
Brunswick


Proposed / Planned lines

Lackawanna line
New York Penn Station
Newark Board Street Station
Summit
Morristown
Dover
Delaware Water Gap
East Stroudsburg
Analomink
Pocono Mountain
Tobyhanna
Scranton
Binghamton


Cape Cod Service
New York Penn station
New Rochelle
Stamford
Bridgeport
New Haven
New London
Westerly
Kingston
Providence
Pawtucket
Taunton
Buzzards Bay
Barnstable


Norfolk Service
Boston South Station
Boston Back Bay Station
Route 128
Providence
Kingston
New London
New Haven Union Station
Bridgeport
Stamford
New Rochelle
New York Penn station
Newark Penn Station
Newark Liberty International Airport (Limited)
Metropark
New Brunswick (Overnight)
Princeton JCT (Overnight)
Trenton
Cornwells Heights (limited)
North Philadelphia (Limted)
30th Street Station
Wilmington
Newark
Aberdeen
Baltimore Penn Station
BWI Airport
New Carrollton
DC Union Station
Alexandria
Woodbridge
Quantico
Fredricksburg
Ashland
Richmond Staples Mill Road
Richmond Main Street
Chester
Petersburg
Suffolk
Norfolk


Lehigh Line
New York Penn station
Newark Penn Station
Phillipsburg
Easton
Bethlehem
Allentown
Emmaus
Macungie
Lyons-Kutztown
Fleetwood
Reading
Wyomissing
Lebanon
Annville
Hershey

Harrisburg
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Old August 18th, 2011, 12:36 PM   #2188
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RADIO PIECE ON RAILWAY MAPS/PENN STATION

Hi forummers, public radio have recently broadcast this fun piece on rail maps:
http://www.wnyc.org/articles/wnyc-ne...-penn-station/

And here is the book spoken about:
http://www.amazon.com/Railway-Maps-W.../dp/0670022659

Mark
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Old August 19th, 2011, 06:16 AM   #2189
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How is Lehigh line in anyway shape or form feasible?
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Old August 19th, 2011, 07:22 PM   #2190
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How is Lehigh line in anyway shape or form feasible?
It runs along a Freight line which runs through one of the fastest growing areas of NE , NJT hopes to have service Philpsburg restored sometime before 2030 and then to Allentown after that tapping into a huge ridership base. Amtrak or a different Rail agency will operate past Allentown connecting to the planned Septa Reading line and to Harrisburg. There is an Estimated 40,000 that would use the service if it were pulled back to Philpsburg , and up to 60,000 with Allentown. 2 or 3 lines would meet in Philpsburg connecting all the High Employment areas of NJ and NY with PA.
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Last edited by Nexis; August 19th, 2011 at 07:46 PM.
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Old August 19th, 2011, 10:27 PM   #2191
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Isnt Harrisburg too far away for this line to work? I can see the potential ridership up to Allentown though.
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Old August 19th, 2011, 11:35 PM   #2192
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Isnt Harrisburg too far away for this line to work? I can see the potential ridership up to Allentown though.
No , because after Allentown the line hits the University of Kutztown , Reading and Hershey all growing areas with alot of people commuting or traveling to NJ or NY or from NJ to PA for tourism & work. Its also going to be an Intercity line , a commuter line will share the tracks between New York / Newark to Allentown and from Reading to Wyomissing. So it will be similar to the popular Keystone service in the southern part of PA or Northeast Regional.
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Old August 23rd, 2011, 04:31 AM   #2193
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Great news if you're always in a hurry between NY and DC

Bloomberg
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...d-upgrade.html

Quote:
Amtrak Acela to Get $4.5M Per-Second Upgrade
By Angela Greiling Keane - Aug 22, 2011 4:58 PM ET

Amtrak's Acela trains may travel up to 160 miles per hour (257 kph) along 24 miles of track in New Jersey after improvements financed by $450 million in U.S. grants that House Republicans wanted to use for flood relief.

Trains on the stretch of revamped track between Trenton and New Brunswick, New Jersey, south of New York, will be able to exceed today’s maximum 135 mph, the Federal Railroad Administration said today in an e-mailed statement announcing $745 million in grants for Northeast Corridor work.

Going 160 miles per hour on that 24-mile segment compared with 135 mph would save about a minute and 40 seconds, meaning $4.5 million would be spent for each second of improvement.

“With our population expected to grow by 100 million more people between now and 2050, we are investing in a high-speed rail system that connects to other modes of transportation, reduces congestion and improves the efficiency and reliability of travel in America,” Federal Railroad Administrator Joseph C. Szabo said in the statement.

Amtrak trains could reach 186 mph on the improved stretch with new locomotives and passenger cars, the rail administration said.

Another $295 million will be spent on a junction in Queens to separate Amtrak trains traveling between New York and Boston from Long Island Railroad, Metro-North and New Jersey Transit commuter trains.

Florida Grant

The money for both projects benefiting Amtrak, the U.S. taxpayer-supported passenger railroad, comes from $2.4 billion in high-speed rail grants awarded to Florida from the 2009 economic stimulus package. Florida sent the money back earlier this year, and the U.S. government said in May it would redistribute the money, including $450 million to Amtrak.

The spending announced today is the first step to allowing 220-mph train service on the Northeast Corridor, and will improve service reliability on the tracks that also carry New Jersey Transit and Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority trains, Steve Kulm, an Amtrak spokesman, said.

“This is a piece of the first segment of our high-speed rail improvement program to get us to 220” miles an hour, Kulm said in an interview. “You need some additional work to be done to get the real time savings.”

Other projects along the corridor to increase speeds include improving tunnels and stations and adding track capacity, he said.

A U.S. House proposal passed last month would have diverted some of the high-speed rail stimulus money that states rejected to Midwest flood-relief efforts.

To contact the reporter on this story: Angela Greiling Keane in Washington at [email protected]

To contact the editor responsible for this story: Bernard Kohn at [email protected]
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Old August 23rd, 2011, 08:13 PM   #2194
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Interesting, high speed rail money actually being spent on the closest thing we have to high speed rail. Will wonders never cease.

Nice shot at Republicans in that first sentence. Gotta love the media.
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Old August 24th, 2011, 01:05 AM   #2195
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Um, if anything, it sounds more like a shot at the Dems. After all, which sounds like an easier sell to the general American public, disaster relief funds or incremental increases in passenger rail speed?
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Old August 25th, 2011, 12:38 AM   #2196
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No news here about the railtunnel from russia to the USA that has been approved?
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Old August 25th, 2011, 10:31 AM   #2197
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^Whos building it? Russians or US or both?
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Old August 25th, 2011, 12:25 PM   #2198
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^Whos building it? Russians or US or both?
Both.

The Tunnel wil be 100 km long and it will become possible to travel from London all the way to south-america by train.

There is a thread here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...=464566&page=3

But for one of the biggest infrastructure projects in the past 10 years it's not very busy there...
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Old August 28th, 2011, 07:27 AM   #2199
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Originally Posted by Atmosphere View Post
Both.

The Tunnel wil be 100 km long and it will become possible to travel from London all the way to south-america by train.

There is a thread here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...=464566&page=3

But for one of the biggest infrastructure projects in the past 10 years it's not very busy there...
How long will that journey take if I'm going, say, from Inverness to Buenos Aires?
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Old August 28th, 2011, 11:56 AM   #2200
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LOL!
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