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Old February 28th, 2008, 01:26 AM   #441
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Old February 28th, 2008, 02:21 AM   #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlerain View Post


The car doesn't always win...
Trains are a little heavier but road vehicles have advantages when it comes to crossing collisions bease they are harder to flip and have rubber wheels that are not on tracks..

A 33 car amtrak train here was derailed by a pickup truck, 2 people died.

(CBS) An Amtrak train headed for Chicago collided with a pickup truck Wednesday morning, killing two people in the truck, officials said. No one on the train was hurt, reports CBS Station WBBM-TV in Chicago.

Will County authorities confirm the accident happened around 9 a.m. at a private crossing near Elwood, about 40 miles south of Chicago.

The Statehouse train from St. Louis to Chicago was carrying 103 passengers when the crash occurred, said Amtrak spokeswoman Debbie Hare.

Will County Sheriff's Lt. Marty Shifflet said the train stayed on track and showed little damage, while the truck was "extremely twisted."

"It was demolished and on fire," Shifflet said.

Officials did not immediately release the names of those injured in the truck.

The gravel crossing at the accident site had no flashing lights or gates, Shifflet said.

The train stopped at the site but was expected to continue into Chicago later Wednesday, Hare said.

The accident site is about 12 miles south of Joliet along Illinois Route 53.
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Old February 28th, 2008, 02:41 AM   #443
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Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Trains are a little heavier but road vehicles have advantages when it comes to crossing collisions bease they are harder to flip and have rubber wheels that are not on tracks..

A 33 car amtrak train here was derailed by a pickup truck, 2 people died.

(CBS) An Amtrak train headed for Chicago collided with a pickup truck Wednesday morning, killing two people in the truck, officials said. No one on the train was hurt, reports CBS Station WBBM-TV in Chicago.

Will County authorities confirm the accident happened around 9 a.m. at a private crossing near Elwood, about 40 miles south of Chicago.

The Statehouse train from St. Louis to Chicago was carrying 103 passengers when the crash occurred, said Amtrak spokeswoman Debbie Hare.

Will County Sheriff's Lt. Marty Shifflet said the train stayed on track and showed little damage, while the truck was "extremely twisted."

"It was demolished and on fire," Shifflet said.

Officials did not immediately release the names of those injured in the truck.

The gravel crossing at the accident site had no flashing lights or gates, Shifflet said.

The train stopped at the site but was expected to continue into Chicago later Wednesday, Hare said.

The accident site is about 12 miles south of Joliet along Illinois Route 53.
Trains are much heavier!

Yes, there are times when a train that has hit a car derails, but that is the exception rather than the rule.
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Old February 28th, 2008, 04:20 AM   #444
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Trains should not be fragile. Here's a derailment at 100mph, all vehicles remain intact



This train hit a car at 120mph, derailed and stayed upright and in tact. It was only the unfortunate coincidence of a freight train coming the other way that it collided with half a mile later that caused many deaths. 10 died.

The Pendolino, TGV, and Shinkansen have some of the best safety records and are the lightest high-speed trains currently in use. I don't see the correlation. If a freight train rammed into a derailed commuter train in the US, you'd be screwed as well. It doesn't make a difference. The best option is segregation, you avoid all of those problems.
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Old February 28th, 2008, 08:12 AM   #445
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Well then I guess all level crossings should be eliminated



It's funny, there was an event in colorado where an amtrak train hit a boulder the size of a large truck, which is like hitting a tank, and everyone on the train was fine, then there are incidences where a train hits a 3000 lb pickup and 2 people die and all the cars go flying...

Maybe it's bad track but something is up.
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Old February 28th, 2008, 10:27 AM   #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoking66 View Post
The Pendolino, TGV, and Shinkansen have some of the best safety records and are the lightest high-speed trains currently in use. I don't see the correlation. If a freight train rammed into a derailed commuter train in the US, you'd be screwed as well. It doesn't make a difference. The best option is segregation, you avoid all of those problems.
Even so the class 91 that hit the freight train wasn't completely screwed, to hit it at a closing speed of 140 mph and have only 10 people dead is quite a testament to the quality of engineering. but then as Jay says individual accidents are a but random and I suppose individual examples are merely anecdotal. I have a hunch though that really heavy vehicles are actually more dangerous than lighter ones, unless the train stays on the track. The main reason cited for the class 91 train staying upright after derailment was the quality of the suspension, and suspension is harder and harder to engineer the heavier the weight it is loaded with. This might be why lighter can be safer.
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Old March 7th, 2008, 08:40 PM   #447
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"About 117 passengers and crew received injuries in the accident including the engineer of Train 59. Of the 117 injured, 50 were admitted to local hospitals and 67 were treated and released. The driver of the truck was unhurt.

The Amtrak train consisted of 2 locomotives and 14 cars. Twelve of the 14 cars derailed and both locomotives turned on their side and a diesel fuel fire ensued. The truck involved in the accident was a 48-foot-long flat bed semi-trailer carrying 37,000 pounds of 60-foot-long, 1-inch diameter steel reinforcing rod. The load overhung the trailer by 7 feet in the rear and 5 feet in the front."

This is from the Bourbannais accident, Amtrak should be ******* sued for the poor design of their trains. (And the truck driver of course)

A 30 ton truck in any circumstance should NEVER harm a 1000 ton train, that's just sad. We need better track too, that could be one of the reasons.


Does anyone have more info or photos from the Bourbannais accident?
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Old March 7th, 2008, 09:19 PM   #448
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"About 117 passengers and crew received injuries in the accident including the engineer of Train 59. Of the 117 injured, 50 were admitted to local hospitals and 67 were treated and released. The driver of the truck was unhurt.

The Amtrak train consisted of 2 locomotives and 14 cars. Twelve of the 14 cars derailed and both locomotives turned on their side and a diesel fuel fire ensued. The truck involved in the accident was a 48-foot-long flat bed semi-trailer carrying 37,000 pounds of 60-foot-long, 1-inch diameter steel reinforcing rod. The load overhung the trailer by 7 feet in the rear and 5 feet in the front."

This is from the Bourbannais accident, Amtrak should be ******* sued for the poor design of their trains. (And the truck driver of course)

A 30 ton truck in any circumstance should NEVER harm a 1000 ton train, that's just sad. We need better track too, that could be one of the reasons.


Does anyone have more info or photos from the Bourbannais accident?
Amtrak's rolling stock has to be designed as per FRA regulations. The regulations ad more weight, limit speed and generally increase inefficiencies. However, I will trust the FRA much more than armchair critics.

According to the FRA must collision related accidents are cause by debris on the track leading to derailment, a problem that is fundamental in railroads and cannot be avoided. After that the rigidity of the rolling stock, which is enforced by the FRA helps.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 06:22 AM   #449
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Could someone explain how these trains derail so easily? Is it the track? I just don't understand how 30 train cars weighing 70 tons each could all be derailed by a 10 ton truck. Or how a 150 ton locomotives could even be affected by that? I'm sure there are ways to prevent such things, if wheel guards are built well enough nothing should get under that's big enough to cause a derailment.

Last edited by Jay; March 20th, 2008 at 06:43 PM.
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Old April 29th, 2008, 07:49 AM   #450
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Just curious, does anyone have a picture of locomotive 59 after the bourbonnais accident?
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Old April 30th, 2008, 02:16 AM   #451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Could someone explain how these trains derail so easily? Is it the track? I just don't understand how 30 train cars weighing 70 tons each could all be derailed by a 10 ton truck. Or how a 150 ton locomotives could even be affected by that? I'm sure there are ways to prevent such things, if wheel guards are built well enough nothing should get under that's big enough to cause a derailment.
Well as I said before the impact is not what derails the train, it is what the impact does to/puts on the tracks.

And you act as if this is a sudden epidemic that is happening left and right, it is not a sudden epidemic and it certainly is not happening left and right.
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Old April 30th, 2008, 07:23 AM   #452
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Quote:
sued for the poor design of their trains
Where in the hell are you getting this? Did you actually read about poor train design or did you just pulled it out of your ass?

It wasn't a problem with the train itself. Remember that they hit a tractor trailer filled with a steel payload, quite a bit more than 10 tons.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 03:56 AM   #453
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Gov to review if NYC building projects too costly

ALBANY, April 30 (Reuters) - New York City's long list of billion-dollar building projects, from a planned new train station to the rebuilding of the World Trade Center, must be reviewed to see if they are still affordable amid a weakening economy, Gov. David Paterson said on Wednesday.

"What I want to determine is whether we can accommodate all these projects in the fiscal hardships we're in right now," Paterson told reporters in Albany.

The state has a role in approving the projects under review, both because of funding they would receive from the state, city or federal government and the state's role in agencies like the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns sites including the World Trade Center.

"These projects were planned at a time when the revenues and the bonding authority would have been there and I want to be sure it still exists," Paterson said.

The state will have to close $20 billion of deficits in the next three years, said Paterson, who wants to cut $800 million from the current budget, which is only a few weeks old.

Other projects on Paterson's review list include the Hudson Yards development of commercial and residential towers in west midtown Manhattan, to be built over the state's mass transit agency's rail yards, and the expansion of the nearby Jacob K. Javits Convention Center.

Although former Gov. Eliot Spitzer had axed the Javits expansion, saying the improvements fell short and were too costly, Paterson's inclusion of the center on his review list indicated that it could be revived.

The city still is in a historic construction boom but economists for months have been questioning how long it can withstand the national housing-led downturn and Wall Street's losses from investments in the subprime mortgage market that have made it much harder for developers to get loans. In previous downturns, New York City saw many ambitious projects stall for years or get scaled back.

On Wednesday morning, the state's Metropolitan Transportation Authority said it expected the city and developer Tishman Speyer to resolve their clash over $3 billion of improvements for the Hudson Yards rail yards within seven days, as required by an escrow agreement.

On the rebuilding of the World Trade Center site, both developer Larry Silverstein and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey have promised to meet all the deadlines for rebuilding.

Meanwhile, the long-stalled plan for a new train station serving both Amtrak and commuter trains, which involves the relocation of Pennsylvania Station one block west from its current midtown site to the Beaux Arts-style former post office, is one of the toughest projects Paterson inherited when he took office in mid-March after Spitzer's resignation.

Paterson said it might take a couple of months for him to determine the best approach for the station.

The original plan grew to include millions of square feet of offices and shops and the relocation of the Madison Square Garden sports arena, which sits on top of the train tracks. Madison Square Garden, however, early this month said it would not move, but instead modernize the arena built in 1968.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 09:32 AM   #454
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The highway network is more than capable of connecting people across the country anyway.
Yes, so we can make our dependance on oil even MORE concrete!! You know, some people don't want to drive 3 days across the country. Trains connected the country before cars existed, let alone the joke we call the us highway or interstate networks. I don't own a car, and i go to NYC every week. Guess how i do that? No, not bus.

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Old May 5th, 2008, 09:42 AM   #455
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What we need is an interstate high speed rail network maintained by the states, maybe more than one carrier operating service with local, skip stop and express/super express trains, sort of like a giant version of the NY subway. More feeder bus service to get the people to the trains, and bam fuel prices go down, air travel becomes cheaper and after a bit an equilibrium is found. It's something we have to do, and can do, yet few either understand or have all the info. A bit maddening.

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Old May 5th, 2008, 09:44 AM   #456
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Gov to review if NYC building projects too costly

ALBANY, April 30 (Reuters) - New York City's long list of billion-dollar building projects, from a planned new train station to the rebuilding of the World Trade Center, must be reviewed to see if they are still affordable amid a weakening economy, Gov. David Paterson said on Wednesday.

They have all ready abandoned this idea in favor of THE Tunnel combined with the east side access project. As for the WTC situation, it is progressing, as i use that PATH station every week.

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Old May 8th, 2008, 09:32 PM   #457
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The rail lines here in Mass. could really benefit from electrification. The less reliance on diesel locomotives, the better.
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Old May 8th, 2008, 09:35 PM   #458
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New England, in general, needs to invest more into passenger rail. It could help unclog the highways and make any trip more convenient. Plus, what better way to experience this region's natural wonders?

It'll also help us Massachusettsians shake off the "M*******" image.
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Old May 9th, 2008, 03:55 AM   #459
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Diesel isn't that bad. It is more efficient (currently), especially for very heavy and long trains that have to travel long distances. That said, I would still like to see some electric trains in the US, whether it be freight or passenger. It would be beautiful to see this throughout the US...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnJvvjFZ9x8

Last edited by seawastate; May 9th, 2008 at 03:56 AM. Reason: embed doesnt work
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Old May 9th, 2008, 04:57 AM   #460
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Diesel isn't that bad. It is more efficient (currently), especially for very heavy and long trains that have to travel long distances. That said, I would still like to see some electric trains in the US, whether it be freight or passenger. It would be beautiful to see this throughout the US...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnJvvjFZ9x8
For some reason, that video reminded me of a scene from "Voices of a Distant Star." They got some nice locs, though.

Last edited by manrush; May 10th, 2008 at 12:12 AM.
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