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Old July 17th, 2008, 01:49 AM   #501
El Mariachi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philadweller View Post
"The USDOT does not have the money to build a high speed train in dense areas because the cost of land is very high in urban areas in the US"

Yeah but we have the money to send the Space Shuttle up and money for military.
And now offshore drilling?

So basically it is our country's greed that fails us with rails.
Its not about greed. Where is there the demand for a highly connected rail system outside the Northeast? The convinence and affordability of air travel has made a good train system pointless. And so has the highway, car, and cheap oil. High gas prices will probally change transportation patterns in the future though.

Offshore drilling? What does that have to do with anything aside from a random attack on Bush who just signed off on a great idea? A great idea that any sane country would have done years ago.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 02:00 AM   #502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philadweller View Post
"The USDOT does not have the money to build a high speed train in dense areas because the cost of land is very high in urban areas in the US"

Yeah but we have the money to send the Space Shuttle up and money for military.
And now offshore drilling?

So basically it is our country's greed that fails us with rails.
The USDOT doesn't have an unlimited amount of money. Money is split, it may be a bad split in your view, but none the less the money is put into different things.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 04:55 AM   #503
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Originally Posted by zazo View Post
Because of the air system
Yea, I think it's the air system as well. The US has the world's busiest air system, and many smallish US cities have busier airports than some major world cities. The US is just so large that there are many places for which taking the train is more time consuming, even highspeed train. The combination of air for long trips and the world's most extensive expressway system for shorter trips is pretty much a 1-2 punch against rail.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 05:33 AM   #504
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Our freeway system may be extensive, but its slow method of transportation do to speed limits and police patrol. And thanks to variety of reasons, airlines are becoming much more expensive to travel on.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 05:55 AM   #505
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I preffer to travel on a plane than a train.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 06:09 AM   #506
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Ummm............ever see Canada's?
I'd kill for anything better.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 07:55 AM   #507
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It has little to do with cars and people's desire to drive. It is MOSTLY because we have an extensive airline system that is significantly faster but can be only slightly more than a train ticket.

Why is our rail system so pathetic? Because our airline system is so extensive.

Where people in Asia and Europe might take a train from one city to another, Americans would take a plane. There is a reason why 13 of the 23 busiest airports are in the United States.

Last edited by hudkina; July 17th, 2008 at 08:00 AM.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 08:54 AM   #508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Exactly. Air travel is quite cheap, and faster. However, with increased security issues in Europe, the train can be faster. Nobody is gonna sit 60 hours in a train from NYC to LA if you can do it by plane in like 5 hours.

I have
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Old July 17th, 2008, 12:46 PM   #509
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I bet it's an incredible trip, but not for business travellers
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Old July 17th, 2008, 05:40 PM   #510
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Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
I bet it's an incredible trip, but not for business travellers
Well I certainly wouldn't go to LA for pleasure. I will concede that I have the luxury of time in my business that others do not.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 06:11 PM   #511
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Car companies have a lot of lobbying power and can influence the amount the government spends on highways.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 06:25 PM   #512
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Right, once you get west of say Omaha (which is already in very low density areas of the Midwest), you really don't have much of anything developed in any way except for a few smaller cities here and there, and Denver and Salt Lake City.

Once you get into this area, it's the equivilent of traveling from London to Athens before you hit the populated areas on the West Coast.

That's a LONG way to travel through on a train to get between populated areas. If you travel between London and Athens in Europe on a train, you're going to pass through areas with tens of millions of people. Trains make more sense to pick up and drop off people along the way.

In the US, there aren't millions upon millions of people between the Midwest and the West coast that you can reach except for maybe 1 or 2 rail lines through the isolated cities. People will naturally prefer to fly before they take a train 3,000KM through the wilderness. Certainly not very cost efficient for the train companies either!!
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Old July 17th, 2008, 06:35 PM   #513
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If you look at the Amtrak route map, it looks very sparse and pathetic out in the western US, but why would they throw down a really dense blanket of train options?

You've got almost 2,500,000 square KM between the northern Amtrak line and the Denver line. In that area you've only got maybe 4 million people spread out all across the area in small towns and ranches. Imagine how much money it would cost to link together 4 million people spread over an area three times the size of France.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 06:44 PM   #514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagoago View Post
Right, once you get west of say Omaha (which is already in very low density areas of the Midwest), you really don't have much of anything developed in any way except for a few smaller cities here and there, and Denver and Salt Lake City.

Once you get into this area, it's the equivilent of traveling from London to Athens before you hit the populated areas on the West Coast.

That's a LONG way to travel through on a train to get between populated areas. If you travel between London and Athens in Europe on a train, you're going to pass through areas with tens of millions of people. Trains make more sense to pick up and drop off people along the way.

In the US, there aren't millions upon millions of people between the Midwest and the West coast that you can reach except for maybe 1 or 2 rail lines through the isolated cities. People will naturally prefer to fly before they take a train 3,000KM through the wilderness. Certainly not very cost efficient for the train companies either!!
It's a bit odd, though, that when it comes to "why aren't there faster trains in the BosWash area?", the answer usually is that it's too crowded, and when the question is "why aren't there faster ones in the US?", the reason suddenly is that it's not crowded enough.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 07:15 PM   #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galls View Post
I have
Like me on your own transcontinental trip, had you by any chance also been delayed by 27 hours?
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Old July 17th, 2008, 07:57 PM   #516
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Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
Like me on your own transcontinental trip, had you by any chance also been delayed by 27 hours?
Nope I usually get lucky and avoid the bustitutions and delays. In fact I usually enjoy it when I ride the Late for Sure Limited (NY-Chicago via water level route)
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Old July 17th, 2008, 08:21 PM   #517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge Phillip Banks View Post
Its not about greed. Where is there the demand for a highly connected rail system outside the Northeast?
Well, the whole west coast plus Las Vegas & Reno, the Texas Triangle all the way up to Kansas & St. Louis, Florida to Atlanta or perhaps even Memphis, Minneapolis-Chicago-Indianapolis-3 C's in Ohio.

Last edited by YeahWho; July 17th, 2008 at 08:29 PM.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 08:24 PM   #518
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Originally Posted by Oaronuviss View Post
Ummm............ever see Canada's?
I'd kill for anything better.
You can't even compare Canada's to USA's due to the huge population disparity. The only area that is feasible in Canada is from Windsor/Hamilton to Quebec City.
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Old July 17th, 2008, 08:41 PM   #519
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Even the Northeast Corridor is pathetic. In it's current form, true HSR (like that of Japan and France) is impossible. The rails are too old and can't take it. I don't care what anyone says, Acela is NOT HSR, IMO.

Most of the excuses that I hear about why the US doesn't have a good rail system does not apply here. We have similar population densities to Europe. And there is demand. Rail is more feasible for someone going from New York to Boston or DC than by plane. Yet, nothing much.

That's more pathetic, in my opinion than not having a HSR cross-country...when the situation is like this is in it's more workable region, I don't know what to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koen Acacia View Post
It's a bit odd, though, that when it comes to "why aren't there faster trains in the BosWash area?", the answer usually is that it's too crowded, and when the question is "why aren't there faster ones in the US?", the reason suddenly is that it's not crowded enough.
Haha, pretty much.
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Old July 18th, 2008, 12:18 AM   #520
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^agreeing on a very expensive, high speed rail in a region made up of many different states would naturally be a hard sell.
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