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Old June 23rd, 2009, 04:58 AM   #1521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
Actually, Phoenix is the largest U.S. city without Amtrak service. There is a stop about 37 miles to the south in Maricopa for Sunset Limited and Texas Eagle trains.

Nahsville, Memphis, Des Moines, St. Petersburgh, Las Vegas, and Louisville are other major cities without Amtrak service.

Many other cities have one train a day such as Indianapolis and Atlanta.
Plus there are those large cities that only have service in the middle of the night... Salt Lake City, Cleveland, Lincoln...
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Old June 23rd, 2009, 11:13 AM   #1522
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Plus there are those large cities that only have service in the middle of the night... Salt Lake City, Cleveland, Lincoln...
And just think; the only thing needed to fix that is another trip. More rolling stock, and a few extra jobs. A tiny investment.

But even that is "too much" to some people.
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Old June 23rd, 2009, 05:35 PM   #1523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
Actually, Phoenix is the largest U.S. city without Amtrak service. There is a stop about 37 miles to the south in Maricopa for Sunset Limited and Texas Eagle trains.

Nahsville, Memphis, Des Moines, St. Petersburgh, Las Vegas, and Louisville are other major cities without Amtrak service.

Many other cities have one train a day such as Indianapolis and Atlanta.
I was talking about rail transit in general.

Last edited by LtBk; June 23rd, 2009 at 07:27 PM.
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Old June 24th, 2009, 02:01 AM   #1524
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I was talking about rail transit in general.
OK. I should also correct myself- Memphis does have Amtrak service- but, like with most cities, it is shitty.
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Old June 24th, 2009, 03:23 PM   #1525
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lol.

Tell it, sister.
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Old June 25th, 2009, 01:43 AM   #1526
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Ohio towns lobby for stops on Amtrak plan
14 June 2009

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - As Amtrak studies a proposed passenger rail line linking Ohio's major cities, small towns along the 250-mile route are lobbying hard not to be left behind.

Galion city manager Dave Oles says a train station is just the sort of hub that can spark new economic development.

In Riverside, city officials already have drawn up plans for a train station that would feed travelers to the U.S. Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.

Amtrak is studying what it would take to run 79-mph trains along existing freight tracks connecting Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati. Gov. Ted Strickland wants the project funded with at least $250 million in federal stimulus money.

Amtrak's study, which will include preferred stops, is expected by the end of August.
79 mph is too slow. People need 110 mph NOW. PTC or bust.
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Old June 25th, 2009, 01:53 AM   #1527
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Meanwhile in China - spending is ~25 billion dollars for FIVE MONTHS on railways. We've shitted behind by aeons. They are also aware of spending a greater proportion on rail than roads or air travel.

Edit: Just read some more. They are spending for this year - ready for this? - 600 B RMB! That's c. 80 billion dollars. Also a long-term commitment for providing HSR to "every city with more than 200,000 inhabitants."

Per capita -
China's 80b /1.3b = 60 dollars / person for rail.
US' 1.1b /300m = 4 dollars / person for rail.

How VERY sad.

Last edited by Facial; June 25th, 2009 at 02:01 AM.
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Old June 25th, 2009, 03:00 AM   #1528
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79 mph is too slow. People need 110 mph NOW. PTC or bust.
For the Midwest between Chicago Detroit, and St Louis, Cali, NEC, Texas, and Florida, make that 110 mph, PTC, and 220 mph or bust! We might never have this opportunity again, get one 220 mph corridor complete and people will be flocking to high speed trains.
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Old June 25th, 2009, 04:39 PM   #1529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Facial View Post
Meanwhile in China - spending is ~25 billion dollars for FIVE MONTHS on railways. We've shitted behind by aeons. They are also aware of spending a greater proportion on rail than roads or air travel.

Edit: Just read some more. They are spending for this year - ready for this? - 600 B RMB! That's c. 80 billion dollars. Also a long-term commitment for providing HSR to "every city with more than 200,000 inhabitants."

Per capita -
China's 80b /1.3b = 60 dollars / person for rail.
US' 1.1b /300m = 4 dollars / person for rail.

How VERY sad.
You want to do away with strict enviromental studies and high paying union jobs then I bet we can also do it. Frankly, China NEEDS HSR in a practical way that the U.S. does not. If the U.S. had three times as many people as it does the incentive to create HSR would even be greater then it already is.
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Old June 25th, 2009, 09:54 PM   #1530
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Environmental studies and unions are necessary moral assets that cannot be compromised.

However, there still exists an independent and fundamental difference in the way the two gov'ts approach transportation funding. I think that the 15:1 per capita ratio is still too great - kind of embarrassing in my opinion. I think the US should spend a little more on HSR than the freeway system simply because the latter is (was!) already developed under Eisenhower.

Although, true, the developmental status of China's countryside motivates it to develop HSR at the same time it builds its highways.
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Old June 26th, 2009, 03:04 PM   #1531
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In Spain there are both strict environmental studies and high wages (at least, comparable to most European countries), and 8.1 billion euros were spent in 2008. That's roughly 180€/person, or 250$/person.
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Old June 27th, 2009, 04:10 AM   #1532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee View Post
You want to do away with strict enviromental studies and high paying union jobs then I bet we can also do it. Frankly, China NEEDS HSR in a practical way that the U.S. does not. If the U.S. had three times as many people as it does the incentive to create HSR would even be greater then it already is.
THe U.S. needs HSR just as much as China, it is just that Americans can't miss what they don't know, and the American people have been conned into believing and accepting that air travel is the only way to get around long distances.
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Old June 28th, 2009, 09:07 AM   #1533
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EXACTLY!

Air travel is becoming too expensive and everyone is used to taking the plane. HSR has the potential to revitalize city centers and do all sorts of magical crap highways have kind of lost out on.
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Old June 29th, 2009, 12:47 AM   #1534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
THe U.S. needs HSR just as much as China, it is just that Americans can't miss what they don't know, and the American people have been conned into believing and accepting that air travel is the only way to get around long distances.
One can say as much that doesn't make it true though. China has an underclass that is likely to be much larger then then in the U.S. for a long foreseeable future and it needs and train travel suites that well. Eventually if China is going to become nearly as mobile as the U.S. or China it is going to need four to five times the travel capacity as the U.S. So no the long term demand and potential strain in China far exceeds what it does in the U.S.

I'm not suggesting we don't need some HSR corridors and improved service but people are going to take advocates seriously when they talk such blatant nonsense that it is juts as imperative to build rail to the extant the Chinese.
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Old June 29th, 2009, 05:08 AM   #1535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscuro_XS View Post
In Spain there are both strict environmental studies and high wages (at least, comparable to most European countries), and 8.1 billion euros were spent in 2008. That's roughly 180€/person, or 250$/person.
WOW.
Per capita spending on rail transportation (assuming freight is included, and spent in the same proportion):

Spain - $250
China - $60
U.S. - $4
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Old June 29th, 2009, 05:12 AM   #1536
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Originally Posted by nomarandlee View Post
So no the long term demand and potential strain in China far exceeds what it does in the U.S.
Not if she builds rail like it she's doing now. China's learning from our mistake of overkill spending on the freeways and neglecting rail.
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Old June 29th, 2009, 08:46 AM   #1537
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Rail IS the future.

and those per capita rail figures are... daunting...
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Old June 29th, 2009, 08:01 PM   #1538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
THe U.S. needs HSR just as much as China, it is just that Americans can't miss what they don't know, and the American people have been conned into believing and accepting that air travel is the only way to get around long distances.
Americans have also been conned into seeing rail transportation as "old-fashioned", outdated, and somehow less worthy than rubber-on-road automobiles. Unfortunately, that biased viewpoint was so effectively and broadly communicated that it became more a self-fulfilling prophesy. It didn't take long before a lack of investment in the US rail network left us with a system that was indeed old-fashioned and outdated.

Big Oil and its dependent industries (automobile, rubber, etc.) sought to demonize rail in the minds of Americans, beginning with their takeover and subsequent elimination of most of America's streetcar networks in the mid-20th century. There seems a certain sense of logic in our now turning to rail as a means of prying our country out of Oil's control.
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Old June 30th, 2009, 01:25 AM   #1539
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and no number of lawsuits and monetary compensation would ever rebuild the streetcars or return the mentality of Americans back in support of rail.
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Old July 4th, 2009, 01:30 AM   #1540
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some good news for those in the Pacific NW

Second daily train between Seattle and Vancouver


Pilot project runs from August until after 2010

Katharine Kitts VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) | Friday, July 3rd, 2009 12:12 pm VANCOUVER

(NEWS1130) - Canada's Public Safety Minister has announced that the feds will participate in a pilot project that will see a second daily Amtrak train between Seattle and Vancouver.

It's estimated a second train could add as much as $14 million dollars a year to BC's economy. Stephen Pearce with Tourism Vancouver says he's very pleased to hear the idea will get a chance, "We currently get about 30,000 passengers that are coming up here. This gives us more flexibility in terms of being able to extend their length of stay. The people that will be coming up with the second train, the majority of them will be staying overnight. I think it gives us more flexibility in terms of who we market to and how we market and the kinds of itineraries that we can take into the Washington State area."

Pearce adds, "[Travellers] don't have to feel rushed to see the city all in one day and treat it as a day trip. It gives us more opportunity to actually give people another option to come up here, rather than having to worry about driving and the border."

The pilot project will run from August through to the end of the 2010 Games and will be evaluated after the Olympics to see if there's enough traffic to merit maintaining the run.

There's currently only one train a day between Seattle and Vancouver and Pearce is confident the second will increase traffic on both sides of the border.

Vancouver mayor Gregor Roberston says it's a start, "We need to take more steps beyond that to improve the rail service to Seattle and Portland."

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/m...03_152026_6036
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