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Old April 6th, 2010, 02:22 AM   #1681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowes48 View Post
1.Refit existing rail for High Speed service- Going back to what I said above, almost all passenger rail routes run on rail owned by freight railroad companies. If they decide to run high speed on those very same routes, then companies will have to coordinate the operation of high speed rail on the exact same track as the slower freight trains. It's complicated enough on the Northeast corridor, but trying to keep track of an ENTIRE nation of freight AND high speed trains running on the same rail at the same time without crashing into each other would be a logistical nightmare. It might work in a smaller country size wise such as Germany and England, but in the US? Totally different animal.
I'd like to add the following to this #1 you made:

- European countries transport a far lower share of their freight through rail than US (5% Italy, 8% France, 11% Germany etc, 42% US - all measured as tonXkm(mile)), so any constraint on freight operations would severely hamper the logistic chains in place in US, particularly for bulk low-value cargo like coal, for instance. I wouldn't call a system that hauls 42% of freight in US as "pathetic" - like the thread title does .

- Contrary to Europe, most rail tracks in US are entirely private and any change of use patterns would be at discretion of CSX, BNSF, Union Pacific etc. They are not like highways which lays on public right-of-way and are, at most, privately administered like the turnpikes.

- Topography is far more favorable in Europe too... even century-old rail tracks were mostly build on plains or mildly hilly terrain. Even Alps' crossing is nothing compared to Rocky Mountains crossings. Rectification would cost billions, and so electrification and track-doubling. For instance, there is no such "Tehachapi Base Tunnel" in project...
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Old April 6th, 2010, 04:54 AM   #1682
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Quote:
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I wouldn't call a system that hauls 42% of freight in US as "pathetic" - like the thread title does .
The OP is not talking about freight, but Passenger rail. The Passenger rail infrastructure in the US is indeed very pathetic.
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Old April 6th, 2010, 06:26 AM   #1683
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The OP is not talking about freight, but Passenger rail. The Passenger rail infrastructure in the US is indeed very pathetic.
Agreed , although i do see it coming back on a more Euro Scale here in the Northeast within 10 years and in the Midwest / Northwest before 2030.
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Old April 6th, 2010, 06:43 AM   #1684
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UNITED STATES | Railways

Amtrak has officially agreed to participate in the Moynihan Station project!

Below is Governor David Paterson's press release;

http://www.state.ny.us/governor/pres..._02171003.html
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Old April 6th, 2010, 06:45 AM   #1685
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Admins, feel free to move this to the urban transportation section if you believe it would be a more appropriate place for this thread.
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Old April 6th, 2010, 04:58 PM   #1686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm9 View Post
The OP is not talking about freight, but Passenger rail. The Passenger rail infrastructure in the US is indeed very pathetic.
It is only "pathetic" if it is actually needed, which outside of a few areas it really isn't. Not in the past 40 years anyway. People have and do get along very nicely without passenger trains. It will be needed much more in the future as America grows and congests but I fear that the capital investment needed will cause it to be a very slow process.
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Old April 7th, 2010, 01:19 AM   #1687
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Why is America's rail system so pathetic? ‎

Its state is no accident; frankly, it's quite intentional.....here's a clue as follows:
Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
As far as rail travel goes, it's clearer to me now why cab designs of N American trucks have yet to shun their coziness with 1930s --errrrr-- panache...
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...7#post54048867

errrrr, I was trying to relate how today's N.A. lorry/truck cab barely looks any different from those designs hailing from the 1930s

Last edited by trainrover; April 7th, 2010 at 01:26 AM.
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Old April 7th, 2010, 11:56 PM   #1688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm9 View Post
The OP is not talking about freight, but Passenger rail.
Because of the reasons that I listed above.

Last edited by lowes48; April 8th, 2010 at 02:05 AM.
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Old April 8th, 2010, 12:00 AM   #1689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
Why is America's rail system so pathetic? ‎

Its state is no accident; frankly, it's quite intentional.....here's a clue as follows:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...7#post54048867

errrrr, I was trying to relate how today's N.A. lorry/truck cab barely looks any different from those designs hailing from the 1930s
And how does this relate to the state of America's Rail System?
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Old April 8th, 2010, 01:02 AM   #1690
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Quote:
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Really? All I saw was a title declaring Americas Rail System pathetic, Period.
Pointless semantics, it's pretty clear what the thread is about.
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Old April 8th, 2010, 03:21 AM   #1691
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we have a great rail system, we are a huge country and having the best freight system in the world makes moving goods cheap. And we have airports that are connected to the local subway/bus/light rail networks so you can move around easily. Or you can just rent a car from an airport. I don't really see any need for the US to spend money on high speed rail except in areas that will heavily use it such as the northeast Cities like KC need local light rail before we need a high speed rail connection to other cities
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Old April 9th, 2010, 02:51 PM   #1692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
Why is America's rail system so pathetic? ‎

Its state is no accident; frankly, it's quite intentional.....here's a clue as follows:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...7#post54048867

errrrr, I was trying to relate how today's N.A. lorry/truck cab barely looks any different from those designs hailing from the 1930s
It's not the good or bad a thing can be that matters ... it's the biased notion of what one wishes to be good or bad that really does the harm ...



Railroads tried to go ina certain direction and in the end went bankrupt because they didn't see their MAIN ADVANTAGES as such ... namelly the ones that were well and had competitive argumentations decided that what they really should be wanting was some stupidity that the other ones had.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 04:31 PM   #1693
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Quote:
Cities like KC need local light rail before we need a high speed rail connection to other cities
Actually, cities need both improved local transit and intercity HSR where it is viable. Both modes can feed off of each other. Unfortunately, Americans tend to have a black/white, either/or mindset. But transit and mobility issues are quite organic, and different modes don't work (or don't have to be) in isolation from each other. That includes air transport and the private automobile, which should naturally be part of the transportation mix.
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Old April 10th, 2010, 06:29 AM   #1694
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Why? Because of the politics.
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Old April 13th, 2010, 02:22 AM   #1695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowes48 View Post
And how does this relate to the state of America's Rail System?
precisely: NA's rail system has little state to be remarking about -- I bet comparably oft-occuring derailments bear no relation to this thread either

Somebody wrote "politics" earlier here. To me, it's merely all about 'economics'. Cheating, unsafe economics yields unsafe railroads here :yawns_again:
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Old April 13th, 2010, 02:33 AM   #1696
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Heres how to solve the Amtrak problem.

First: Limit all the long distance trains to once a day, and make it a tourist thing. For example, from Chicago to LA. No one in the right mind would take train for long distance trips.

Second. Improve the rail, so it can handle the high speed trains. This would only imply to the lines that can potentially be very profitable of course. I am talking NEC, from DC to Boston. Only have Acela run in those tracks and CUT the cost so that it becomes much more attractive alternative to flying. Lowering the cost could mean more customers, meaning more profits, despite the lower prce. I say around $60, 70 is fair.

I dunno about other places, but seems like N. Cal- S. Cal high speed line also look potentially profitable. From LA to San Francisco. Or Chicago to Minneapolis.
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Old April 13th, 2010, 02:44 AM   #1697
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Heres how to solve the Amtrak problem.

First: Limit all the long distance trains to once a day, and make it a tourist thing. For example, from Chicago to LA. No one in the right mind would take train for long distance trips.

Second. Improve the rail, so it can handle the high speed trains. This would only imply to the lines that can potentially be very profitable of course. I am talking NEC, from DC to Boston. Only have Acela run in those tracks and CUT the cost so that it becomes much more attractive alternative to flying. Lowering the cost could mean more customers, meaning more profits, despite the lower prce. I say around $60, 70 is fair.

I dunno about other places, but seems like N. Cal- S. Cal high speed line also look potentially profitable. From LA to San Francisco. Or Chicago to Minneapolis.
Thats already happening in the Northeast , Northwest , Midwest. Fares have been dropped to 30-50 $ depending on how busy the lines are. Long Distance trains will be limited to 2 a day. Acela was only mean't for Business travelers only , but Amtrak Regional was mean't for everybody else. All Amtrak lines have seen ridership increases in the past year , 13% on the Acela alone. Amtrak regional has at least 6 sold out trains a day. The Northeast Corridor , New Haven - Springfield , and Keystone > Keystone Extension to Cleveland will be updated to true high speed rail status or electrified sometime this decade. The Midwest might see Electrification of 4 lines this decade and at least 2 lines in the Northwest. At least 100 Electrification projects are planned for this decade. The Northeast Corridor will be extended south to Charlotte and the gap between South Bay / North Station in Boston will be bridged. Although for Northeast Regional to travel form Charlotte - Portland , Maine. A new Fleet is in the works.
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Old April 13th, 2010, 06:44 AM   #1698
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Replace the older cars, phase them out and bring in comfortable, modern cars is next step.

At this stage I would also recommend government taking over all of the tracks within US by whatever means necessary. Honestly, railroads shouldnt be privately owned now a days.

Place high speed rails in other places, like California or Texas or Midwest such as Chicago and Minneapolis.
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Old April 13th, 2010, 11:48 AM   #1699
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Quote:
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Heres how to solve the Amtrak problem.
First you need to solve the FRA problem.
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Old April 13th, 2010, 09:24 PM   #1700
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They should adopt a network-wide profitability study. Without disregard of any network effect (a feeder train that albeit non-profitable itself brings profitable traffic to other segments and services), they should cut unprofitable trains. I doubt those 2-day long routes from Chicago to West Coast yields any profit. They should be cut partially or entirely outright if not proven to be profitable themselves or capable of offset own losses with feeder impacts on other services (unlikely that a Denver-Chicago passenger will have any relevant feeder impact on a regional route there).

AMTRAK should give up its "tourist" services through the Rockies, where they are just a fancy thing running amidst pristine landscape.
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