Kuala Lumpur - 3rd World City?

[musang]

is KUL a 3rd world city?

i tried so hard not to be offensive in my response/remark to a forumer bigoted opinion in "Dubai vs. KUL" thread. but i can't really blame him/her for coming up with such statement (by saying DXB is a 1st world city and KUL being a 3rd world city).. i mean how repulsive can one gets without actually having any knowledge or statistics to support one's opinion? or am i being parochial and perhaps paranoid when others have nothing better to say about KUL or my country in general?

i am waiting for his/her response in how does one categorises a city being either a 1st or 3rd world city.. to me Dubai is great no doubt, everything is sleek, new, shiny etc.. is that all there is to it for getting the title of a 1st world city? DXB CBD is neat, but what abt the surrounding? i know a lot of the so-called 1st world cities that are experiencing urban decay...

so my question to fellow malaysians here is, Is KUL a 3rd World City? what say you??

[baqthier]

I'm not good when it comes to categorising things..but I would say KL is a world-class city and we don't face problems as big as other cities in the developed countries. For instance, we don't have that problem of the homeless or beggars all over..we do have them but still small in number and not something we worry much about. I do remember in the 80's we have beggars everywhere..and now..KL definitely has improved damn lot. Malaysia is also home to South East Asia's largest passenger car market for such a population and we are only 2nd to Singapore when it comes to car prices!

[Vince]

For a city to achieve first world status, many things are put into consideration. The life-expectancy of the people, educational level of the population, competitiveness of the city etc. There is urban decay, yes, even in Kuala Lumpur. For instance, the squatters (many are hidden behind signboards), and the unmaintained buildings with dirty walls, not to mention the spewing black smokes from lorries and buses. Yes, environmental protection and recycling efforts also point towards being a first world society, which, sadly, Malaysia lacks or has yet to keep up. Public officials can also soil the reputation of being "first World", eg. the corruption of city officials and policemen (Like in Malaysia sometimes people pay to pass their driver's license test, or that traffic policemen ask for a certain "bribe"). Also the mentality of people can be put into consideration, like how people would "soil public toilets". In many societies, people do not have to pay to use public washrooms. The fact that we as Malaysians need to pay to use washrooms show the fact that many of us have world class facilities around us but have yet to live up to a first world mentality. All these factors sum up to say why sometimes we are still not considered a "first world" yet, despite the fact that we have gleaming skyscrapers and a couple of "national cars". Kuala Lumpur, being the best-defining city and a model for our Malaysian society, still has a lot more to improve before achieving "First World". Just remember my fellow countrymen, gleaming towers and wide highways and enormous shopping malls do not make a city "first world".

[Magician]

How to define..?

[Greg]

No way KL is a 3rd world city! I consider a 3rd world city to be one of those massive cities where a significant number of inhabitants live in poverty and shanty towns. Samples? Lagos, Dhakka, Calcutta, Jakarta, Manila.
This is certainly not the case with KL, which is a great city. The distinction between 1st 2nd and 3rd world is not really about highrises and who's skyline is the best. You mentioned most contributing factors already. KL is by no mean a 3rd world city and I would define it as a 2nd world city but coming close of entering the top leage. KL must do more on the environmental front, do more for public transport and learn how to maintain their spectacular buildings. Have sewage system for the whole city. The health system must improve as life expectancy is only around 70 years in malaysia, compared to almost 80 in 1st world countries. Malaysia has no statutory provision for either minimum wage or unemployment benefit.

[SEED]

KL's great! is there a "First World City" on this planet?? never heard of one.. maybe that person thinks that KL is a big slums like the one they show in that movie Entrapment..

[AFL]

it's not merely how advanced a city is in terms of physical infrastructure i.e highways, expressways, tall buildings, etc. but how livable a city is...

and remind me of what our PM said 'first class facility, third world mentality'

[bobdikl]

I think...

1) In term of 'impressive and cosmopolitan' physical infrastructure KL is more superior than London, even compare to many scandinavian cities. These countries are more 'rational' on spending, since heavy burden on their coming collaps of their welfare states system .

2) In term of capital per income, my source of information (Asiaweek, few years back) told me if KL as a city state like Singapore, its capital per income is higher than some western capital cities despite of the whole malaysian capital per income is US $3900.

3) I do agree KL got less beggars than many western cities. Culturewise Asian ppl tend to be more deligent and responsible toward themself. When my parents visited me last year they noticed many 'very healthy' beggars on the street.

4) City - Environment, particular the green. Believe it or not..I think KL has done a good job just second to Singapore. My collegaues praised KL for its motorways and streets green. Cities such as New York and Paris (Champs Elysees is exception), tend to just keep the greens in the park.

5) Literacy rate. Malaysian literacy rate is high (93%). So naturally KL is higher.

6) KL is a nightmare in term of air pollution by European standard!! How could a merely millions population city accomodate 2 millions cars! But still US.America is the most polluted country in the world...they produced more heat, waste, carbon, etc per capital than many places in the world. Says in Europe, we need to have 3 planets earth for a billion Chinese to live like every American.

7) KL's public toilets are average dirty, need to be imrpoved. I was in India, Italy and south of france their need to be improved too. I hate wet toilet! We should educate ppl "use water at home, use tissue in a public place." So they could reduce labour job.
"In many societies, people do not have to pay to use public washrooms." i believe in options. So in London I always pay to use clean toilet.

8) Mentality. Corruption- Yes...shame, shame, Shame. Who doesn't bribe traffic police?? (I don't)
But I confess I did purchase pirated software and DVD when I was in KL.
My collegaues complained the taxi drivers were not honest and polite.

[bobdikl]

[yung85]

hi i am malaysian studying in the uk... at the moment i am in dubai on holiday.. i arrived here 2 days ago.... i'll be honest... i dont really care about watever bullshit class... but i am certain KL is much better.... economically... socially.... buildings r nice in dubai as well as KL but these r just skin deep.... dubai is nice... but there r huge poverty.. people r lazy and never work.... people r racist against every other race... there r huge inequality here.... dubai also lacks culture.... its no where as vibrant as KL....

the dubai population is around 2 million... out of the 2 million... 80% r expats... ie foreign workers.... out of the expats 80% r indian workers working on construction sites etc.... the 20% r all the white, chinese etc workers who work in offices etc....imagine this... and u can picture wat i see here...

u people say the transpotation in KL is bad.... well i am sure dubai is even worse.... there r no public transport except for afew buses whicch hardly anyone uses... everyone drives here... and the traffic is BAD...

but even thou dubai has a huge poor population... i would say it is a safe city...

[musang]

Originally Posted by bobdikl

bob.. that is the 'old faithful' recently discovered in KUL. i blve DBKL is lobbying hard to have that gazetted as national heritage..

Originally Posted by bobdikl

aiya szehoong, next time walking look straight la..

[musang]

yung85: when u said huge poor population, don't let that fool you as some of these foreign labours earn more than most execs in KUL.

u r rite, there are many expats here, not just in DXB but practically in the whole region. don't get me wrong, but when i first landed here, i jokingly asked the steward whether the pilot made a mistake of landing somewhere in India.

in AUD, 8 out of 10 labor force are expats, mostly from India, Pakistan.. these are hardworking people, and pls do not misconstrue my statement here. i was told by an arab colleague that most western expats are taken for "company's corporate and public image." to obtain and demand good salary, one has got to have these two qualities "white and speak with an accent." few of my colleagues asked me y i do not speak with an american slang even though i was there for almost 10yrs. i told them hypocrisy does not exist in my vocabulary. the locals, in general, speak with impecabble accent, but when it comes to writing, doing analytical reports etc.. it goes beyond my wildest comprehension. in other words, hancus.

but that is the common thing here, expats from the Far East (as they wud like to categorise us and our neighbours) as well as those from the sub-continent in general receive less favourable treatment, unless of course one is highly qualified and well experienced.

as for public transportation in DXB, things shud be looking better ahead with the MRT project, supposedly to be the longest in the world (yeah yeah the fixation 2b the tallest, longest, etc.. seems endless here..) and car ownership in mideast is simply amazing..

anyhow, hope u have a good break in DXB. care to drop by and have 'chay and khubus' with me in Manama?

[Magician]

Well apparently I have checked through webpages...

Most Asian Cities are classified as THIRD WORLD CITIES... even Singapore... So... this is really kinda puzzle me...

Is the term 'THIRD WORLD CITY' related to less developed city? Or is just the word to classify a class of city... But, according to what I read... THIRD WORLD CITY has nothing to do with the development...

However, Malaysia is classed under Developing Nation while Singapore is classed under Developed Country together with US, UK, AUS, Japan and even HK (since China is still under Developing Nation category, so HK's situation is dual cases).

[musang]

interesting eh? this is all the manipulation imposed to all those 'less developing nations.? and governed by what kind of classification? who lay down all the guidelines etc etc..

point is, in general term, if we want to be like one, we better act like one..

[Magician]

Well.. I read through the so-called United Nation web site...

[bobdikl]

Singapore is classified as a third world country. First world countries have no priviledge trading status under the WHO. First world countries have to commit themselves to fund more projects in Africa, costly environement projects in developing countries, and many global commietments. Singapore has no national minimum wages to protect their cheap foreign maids and labours. Singaporea goverment is taking this advantage to build more MRT lines, and other infrastructure projects.

[Leeigh]

ya know what....3rd world or no 3rd world, I think KL is sweeeettttt!!! compared to most 1st or even 2nd so called world cities! We don't have to go by labels stamped by western countries and their judgements of what makes a city class.

[Vince]

Wow this page invokes a lot of heated debates and argument among my fellow countrymen...I like. Keep up the passion fellow forumers.

[AFL]

i would rather see a much greener city rather than having more cars on the road...

[Leeigh]

KL is pretty green and not concentrated which helps. BUT traffic wise...hmmm...I guess people in Asia just love to drive and for that reason KL for instance got a web of excellent highway systems and upcoming double deck underground motorway and expanding rail systems (LRT, Monorail, Commuter). Despite the lil pollution, still pleasant...