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View Poll Results: Which form of HSR will own the 21st. century?
Conventional - wheels on rails 163 52.24%
Maglev - magnetic levitation 116 37.18%
Horse drawn rail cars ^_^ 33 10.58%
Voters: 312. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 20th, 2005, 08:16 AM   #21
FM 2258
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Conventional. I think if you need to go faster just buy a plane ticket.
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Old June 20th, 2005, 08:16 AM   #22
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Conventional (especialy HSR) will dominate all around the world.
But there will probabilly be some Maglev between City centers and Airports or between residential area and working area.

Only big countries with long distances between makor cities like USA, Canada, Russia, China, Mexico, Australia, Brasil,... should build real maglev network.

Switzerland may build a Magnetic Subway Network called "Swissmetro"...but when ?
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Old June 20th, 2005, 08:33 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudship
And how exactly are you going to create this vacumn tunnel? .......
my mistake...It's not going to be a full vacuum but a partial one. The air pressure will be equivalent to atmospheric pressure at 15,000 meters elevation. *taken from website*

One problem with a vacuum tunnel system is heat. For an above ground system this is not a problem because the wind will carry the heat away...but if you're in a vacuum that obviously can't happen.

A radiator or some type of air conditioning system can not be used b/c its a vacuum remember.

I read somewhere that the English "chunnel" uses a liquid cooling system to keep the rails cool. The ocean water provides enough of a temperature difference to act as a coolent.
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Old June 21st, 2005, 07:01 AM   #24
TRZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scando
Even if we can get maglev running routinely on an economical basis, it will always be limited since it can only have few stops. The only reason to build a maglev is speed but you can't get the thing up to 250 MPH in the short distance between urban transit stops without treating the passengers like drivers of drag racers. It is being very actively pursued in the Baltimore-DC area as a city connector, but with only 1 stop between cities at the BWI airport, even that stop is enough to slow the thing down enough that with reasonable acceleration and deceleration, the trip becomes about 30 minutes, which is only 25 minutes shorter than mundane MARC trains with about an estimated triple the cost. Why does that make sense? Why not spend the billions making the MARC trains run a little faster, further reducing the difference?
I disagree, strongly. I think that there is actually a potential for a strong presence of urban transit maglev in the denser asian cities. The thing about maglev is that it is very light on maintenance to the point where it is almost non-existent. You would have to do some track work every decade. This is vastly superior to the system where every stretch of track needs inspection every 72 hours or so. This is what shuts the system down every night. Maintenance is the only reason. Maglev allows a quiet ride around the clock and if automated is probably a super-cheap and profit heavy operation. Have a triple or quad-tracked line and run paired express local stops within the city for combined urban tramlike stops and cross-town services. I see very high potential for urban maglev. It has advantages that go beyond its speed. The speed has been given too much attention, it is the maintenance factor that is its biggest merit.
Nagoya is already implementing the technology into its subway.
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Old June 24th, 2005, 05:34 AM   #25
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Japan already has an urban maglev line - the Tobu Kyuryo Line, also known as the linimo. Britain had one, but it need so few parts that when it came time to replace the vehicles they had long ago stopped making parts for it.
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Old June 25th, 2005, 05:25 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ
...........
I think that there is actually a potential for a strong presence of urban transit maglev in the denser asian cities. The thing about maglev is that it is very light on maintenance to the point where it is almost non-existent. You would have to do some track work every decade.
.............
I think maglevs do have cheaper maintenance but not to the point that you mentioned. True a maglev train may not be in physical contact with the rails but there is still a tremendous amount of force that acts on the rails as the train floats above.

The electromagnetic forces pushing and pulling on the rails as the train rides above will eventually knock the rails out of alignment. I'm quite sure there must be some scheduled maintenance that involves "re-aligning" the rails. At least for a maglev this can be done without changing out any parts.

here's an interesting article that has relevance to "re-aligning" the rails


Shanghai maglev track sinks slightly

http://www2.chinadaily.com.cn/englis...ent_322922.htm
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Old June 25th, 2005, 05:42 AM   #27
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There is no significant force in the vertical direction since the Shanghai route is pretty flat. As such the "sinking" of the maglev track in Shanghai is just a sign for bad enigneering on part of the track builders, it has nothing to do with the maglev itself.
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Old June 26th, 2005, 12:57 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WotaN
Also traditional rail has its limitations, one of which is contact between pantograph and cable. On a train going some 300 mph (500 km/h) there is continuous sparkling because it's impossible to press the pantograph against the cable strong enough. Getting rid of this problem (sending energy to train e.g. by guided microwave beam) is one of obstacles in development of faster conventional rail.
The major one is poor energetic renderings in comparison with maglev (still excellent in comparison with all other ground transportations).
Also : limitations in slope and acceleration.
Maglev could be interesting in urban transportation if it becomes much cheaper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WotaN
Maglev doesn't have such limitations and I wouldn't be astonished when, due to future cheap energy (termonuclear, cold fusion, other), it would be able to travel at subsonic (Ma 0,9 or some 950 km/h - 600 mph) speed, winning passengers from planes.
You can expect the energy price to explode and remain very high for at least 3 decades (then, technological uncertainties are big, especially on solar energy).
Anyway, there is no real need to travel faster than 500km/h nowadays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WotaN
What about the noise? Even today it is possible to generate anti-wave that would cut the noise to zero.
What you can do is design the track and the train so that the noise diffraction point up in the sky. That works allready for commercial airplanes.
Future is amazing

Last edited by Grygry; June 26th, 2005 at 01:02 AM.
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Old June 26th, 2005, 03:42 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grygry
Also : limitations in slope and acceleration.
Rather deceleration. Then the only problem to bare is the human body which is unwilling to cope with some lateral g's
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grygry
Maglev could be interesting in urban transportation if it becomes much cheaper.
But what would be really interesting is non-friction technology use on conventional track without expensive modifications. [/quote]


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grygry
You can expect the energy price to explode and remain very high for at least 3 decades (then, technological uncertainties are big, especially on solar energy).
Let's see about hydrogen to helium fusion. The reactor was just activated, we need to wait for the results.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grygry
Anyway, there is no real need to travel faster than 500km/h nowadays.
So why do people choose planes on some distances? If I had a choice of traveling for the same price at the same distance for 4 hours or for 2 hours, I choose 2 hours, unless I'm on vacation and sightseeing
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Old June 26th, 2005, 05:17 PM   #30
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still conventional.

Japan's Maglev (world's fastest: 581 kph. manned run) / Shinkansen Fastech series (405 - 360 kph) or TGV....There's not so difference between them.
In case of slow version of Maglev like one in Shanghai made by Germany (only 430 kph max speed), conventional trains are by far much better.
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Old June 26th, 2005, 06:18 PM   #31
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Maglev of course.
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Old June 26th, 2005, 06:36 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WotaN
Let's see about hydrogen to helium fusion. The reactor was just activated, we need to wait for the results.
The problem being the high temperatures required for fusion to occur. There have been plenty of fusion reactor tests, but all of them have sucked more energy than they've produced.
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Old June 26th, 2005, 10:45 PM   #33
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East Japan Railway's FASTECH


..................................

average speed: 360km/h
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Old June 27th, 2005, 09:07 AM   #34
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Maglev is perfect for shortdistance travel because of it's fast acceleration. Conventional will (sadly but true) be replaced by Aircraft and Roadtraffic.
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Old June 27th, 2005, 09:16 AM   #35
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Airplane or Inductrack
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Old June 27th, 2005, 01:03 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty
Maglev is perfect for shortdistance travel because of it's fast acceleration. Conventional will (sadly but true) be replaced by Aircraft and Roadtraffic.
For short distances, Maglev isn't very good because it won't be able to reach its top speed before it has to start slowing down for the stop.

Quote:
Only big countries with long distances between makor cities like USA, Canada, Russia, China, Mexico, Australia, Brasil,... should build real maglev network.
The problem is the cost of construction - between Sydney and Melbourne (~900km) there are only two cities with populations above 100,000. A lot of the people on this forum want the government to invest money on improving track alignments to support higher speeds though - Sydney to Melbourne is (was?) the third busiest route in the world for air travel.
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Old March 12th, 2007, 01:52 PM   #37
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as maglevs still have mostly prototyp charakter, they are much too expansive.
Therefore its important, that some intericity lines will be built, so that the price drops....

I still hope for Shanghai-Hangzhou, its the perfect distance, for how far maglev development is right now...

heres the new maglev for munich....


Last edited by pflo777; March 12th, 2007 at 02:00 PM.
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Old March 12th, 2007, 01:58 PM   #38
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who voted "Horse drawn rail cars"?
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Old March 12th, 2007, 02:09 PM   #39
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Maglev but much later on in the century, I wish the east of Australia was conneted by maglev would be so convenient. (Melbourne, Canberra, Sydney, Brisbane) Haave you people heard of that vacuum maglev thing, I saw it on discovery channel, it can travel at 8000km/hr + they say it has no limit. They was used in the vision of the transatlantic tunnel.
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Old March 12th, 2007, 06:47 PM   #40
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Maglev is still too pricey to be used for mass transit. Its like travelling in an Airbus as opposed to a Concorde (pay a thousand versus pay ten thousand).

If the costs of building Maglevs can be brought down, it has a lot of potential.
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