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View Poll Results: Which form of HSR will own the 21st. century?
Conventional - wheels on rails 163 52.24%
Maglev - magnetic levitation 116 37.18%
Horse drawn rail cars ^_^ 33 10.58%
Voters: 312. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 14th, 2007, 11:38 PM   #41
micro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WotaN View Post
I guess it's much too long period for prophecies. Just look: in 1900 there was no plane with own engine, only early gliders. Before 2000 there were planes capable of:
- flying around the globe without stop
- reaching 5 times the speed of sound and more
- taking several hundred people on board
- flying on the edge of atmosphere

And the problem is, that development is even faster. I mean that there's way bigger difference between 1990 and 2000 than between 1790 and 1800. And finally, most probable is that we even don't have bloody idea of technology for transportation in 50 years. It may be either sth we don't expect (teleport - maybe not the best example) or sth we don't suspect (existing technology with new use).
I agree, 100 years is a long period of time. But the difference between aviation around 1900 and maglev now is that the skies were completely empty but maglev has to share its space with other means of transportation.

Maybe China with its not-so-democratic attitude can manage to make space for a huge maglev network in the 21st century. And plagiarism can make the technology much cheaper.
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Old March 15th, 2007, 02:23 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalizer View Post
East Japan Railway's FASTECH


..................................

average speed: 360km/h
No, not average - top operating speed will be 360, average will be more like 250 (if even that).
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Old March 15th, 2007, 11:04 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by chris_underscore47 View Post
Maglev but much later on in the century, I wish the east of Australia was conneted by maglev would be so convenient. (Melbourne, Canberra, Sydney, Brisbane) Haave you people heard of that vacuum maglev thing, I saw it on discovery channel, it can travel at 8000km/hr + they say it has no limit. They was used in the vision of the transatlantic tunnel.
8000 kph? What distance would be required to bring a train safely to a halt from this speed? 100 km or more? I think the TGV requires 8 km to slow from 300 kph to 0 under emergency braking. The need for such a minimum safe distance between trains would necessitate such a big headway that the number of trains per hour would be quite small, meaning that the carrying capacity of the system would be quite small, unless it used huge trains that could carry many thousands of passengers each. A recent article in a British railway magazine said that the U.K. should not build high speed lines but should instead invest available funding on increasing the capacity of existing lines due to the surge in passenger numbers in recent years. This can be done by adding extra tracks to separate fast and slow services, upgrading signalling (e.g. ETRMS) to allow shorter headways, grade separation of junctions to reduce or avoid conflicting train movements, longer platforms and longer trains.

Last edited by Jean Luc; March 15th, 2007 at 11:14 AM.
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Old March 15th, 2007, 07:21 PM   #44
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I think in the early 22th Century Maglev Trains will start to replace the Standard Rail Systems for good in the developed Countries. As someone already said this is viewed very far into the Future so it is difficult to predict, but I think that due to the Advancements in Science Maglev Trains will operate just as cost-efficient as today's HSR Trains.

By then, I think new Power Sources (Fusion), new Construction Materials that are better and cost less (Nanotechnology) and new Computer Equipement (Quantum or Organic Computers) make is possible to invest in a large Maglev Network.

What the Maglev would need is one of these Acceleration Compensators from Star Trek, I don't know if that is actually possible but imagine it would be.
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Old March 15th, 2007, 07:27 PM   #45
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in 10 years, they want to build a maglev tram line in Dresden.
Dresden is the centre for high temperature supre conductive research in Germany.
And this is how it should look like:




http://www.ifw-dresden.de/offers/dow...upratrans2.wmv

(Attention, 50 mb!!)

http://www.supratrans.de/download/flyer_engl.pdf
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Old March 15th, 2007, 08:27 PM   #46
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If you guys think where we were in the beginning of the 20th cetury, then it's not very hard to believe that MAGLEV(or smth similar to it) will replace conventional trains for the end of the 21st century... It's just that so many things can happen with 90 years.
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Old March 15th, 2007, 08:38 PM   #47
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Interesting Vdeo, thanks!
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Old March 16th, 2007, 12:37 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
If you guys think where we were in the beginning of the 20th cetury, then it's not very hard to believe that MAGLEV(or smth similar to it) will replace conventional trains for the end of the 21st century... It's just that so many things can happen with 90 years.
Right, like we'll run out of oil. But the laws of physics won't change, and the cost-benefit of maglev will not significantly change.
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Old March 16th, 2007, 02:50 AM   #49
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I vote for maglev. I think the technology has a lot of potential if the service were economical. I do not know much about the technical aspects of maglev nor the economic feasibility of the technology. However, the potential for maglev could create a situation in which there is no longer a need for airplanes. They might even be less economical than maglev transit. There's a lot of technologies outside of direct maglev technologies that need to be improved in order for something like this to happen. Tunneling technology for one, but many others. So my vote is maglev.
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Old March 16th, 2007, 10:39 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenGuard View Post
What the Maglev would need is one of these Acceleration Compensators from Star Trek, I don't know if that is actually possible but imagine it would be.
I think you mean the "inertial dampeners", which prevent the Enterprise and everyone on board from being squashed to the size of a neutron when they make the jump to warp speed. Pure science fiction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxom92
However, the potential for maglev could create a situation in which there is no longer a need for airplanes.
How would we cross oceans e.g. London-New York, LA-Sydney? By maglev through tunnels? Pretty damn expensive, and once again in the realms of fantasy.
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Old March 16th, 2007, 11:46 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eomer View Post
Conventional (especialy HSR) will dominate all around the world.
But there will probabilly be some Maglev between City centers and Airports or between residential area and working area.

Only big countries with long distances between makor cities like USA, Canada, Russia, China, Mexico, Australia, Brasil,... should build real maglev network.

Switzerland may build a Magnetic Subway Network called "Swissmetro"...but when ?
As far as I know, Russia isn't interested in maglev, they will use conventional HSR.
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Old March 16th, 2007, 11:53 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pflo777 View Post
[…]

heres the new maglev for munich....

If it will ever be build…
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Old March 16th, 2007, 11:56 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by odegaard View Post
Microwave beam? Never heard of that idea before. I have heard about the pantograph/ catenary line problem though. A pantograph pushes up against the catenary line/overhead cable. This causes a "wave pattern". Normally this isn't a problem but at high speeds the wave can be large enough to cause the cable to rise up and lose contact with the pantograph. One solution is to increase the tension in the overhead cable....which was one of the modifications done to the TGV before it went on it's infamous speed test.

There is a low tech solution of course. Instead of using an overhead cable...an overhead rigid beam can be used instead. A rigid beam would not create a wave and "jump" the pantograph no matter how fast the train goes. I would also assume there would be less friction since a rigid beam would not deflect from being pushed up against by the pantograph and it's shape and position can be perfectly aligned.

just an idea?
Another idea is to use a live rail.
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Old March 16th, 2007, 11:58 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micro View Post
The major drawback of maglevs seems to be that they are not compatible with conventional rail (passengers always have to transfer). This was the main reason that the plans for a Hamburg-Berlin maglev have been abandoned.

[…]
Right, that's a very big problem and it will be the reason why the maglevs will have no chance in countries with a high density railway net.
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Old March 16th, 2007, 07:43 PM   #55
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We can decently imagine that oil will be a lot more expensive in 50 years than nowadays. I believe that then we will have cars being powered by something else than oil, but I believe airplane will still work with combustion. As such, we can imagine air travel being more expensive in 50 years and, depending on the oil prices, we can imagine that some world regions which wouldn't have already invested in a high speed rail network may consider to build a maglev network at that time.

As such, it's possible that countries such as China or the United States may consider building a maglev network if it actually becomes more competitive than air travel. However, the high speed rail technology will also improve, and I don't believe Europe, which is currently building a very extensive high speed network, will have any reason to build a maglev network. Same goes for Japan.

For this, it would require the maglev technology to make the high speed rail technology completely obsolete. Considering how expensive it is to build such an infrastructure, it would really need maglev to be 3 times less expensive to maintain and 3 times faster than HSR. I don't see this coming.
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Old March 16th, 2007, 07:49 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Luc View Post
How would we cross oceans e.g. London-New York, LA-Sydney? By maglev through tunnels? Pretty damn expensive, and once again in the realms of fantasy.
Indeed. This would probably be a 22nd century idea, but who knows what technology will be invented and how the economics of the world will look like.
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Old March 16th, 2007, 08:13 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pflo777 View Post
in 10 years, they want to build a maglev tram line in Dresden.
Dresden is the centre for high temperature supre conductive research in Germany.
And this is how it should look like:




http://www.ifw-dresden.de/offers/dow...upratrans2.wmv

(Attention, 50 mb!!)

http://www.supratrans.de/download/flyer_engl.pdf
MAGLEV tramway?

Do you think we will see a "MAGLEV metro" soon?
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Old March 18th, 2007, 01:26 AM   #58
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well, if the technology works out and is cheap enough, why not put it in a tunnel?

The maglev in Munich will run in a 5 km long tunnel into the downtown area,to the main station.

This line will be built with german subway standarts, when it comes to fire protection ....
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Old March 18th, 2007, 02:54 AM   #59
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The world is reaching a point where R&D outpaces political understanding and consensus. Perhaps several modes will be found beyond maglev technology within the next 90 years or so, but the development and experience will be very limited.

Thus, conventional HSR will dominate the 21st century. California, of all places, is still struggling to build one.

Conventional wheels and steel rails have a 200+ year history of research and development. We can still rely on them fairly well, and even surprisingly at higher speeds too, as the recent TGV records show us.
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Old March 18th, 2007, 03:06 AM   #60
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i hope and i think maglev
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