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View Poll Results: Which form of HSR will own the 21st. century?
Conventional - wheels on rails 163 52.24%
Maglev - magnetic levitation 116 37.18%
Horse drawn rail cars ^_^ 33 10.58%
Voters: 312. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 19th, 2007, 01:29 PM   #61
sotavento
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Maglev technology wil be a NO NO until they can manage to squeese it into the "2 horse backsides" standard of all times ...


I don't see a maglev system replacing the CapeGauge/MetreGauge and UIC.gauge (1435mm) that everyone uses to pull freight traffic nowadays ... but it they manage to squeese maglev technology into the "dedicated" HSL ... it can have a future.
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Old April 27th, 2007, 11:04 AM   #62
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Old May 1st, 2007, 06:14 AM   #63
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Conventional wheel and rail is nearly at it's potential speed limit using steel.
On the other hand maglev is still at it's infancy stage with vast head room for improvement with new discoveries in high temperature super conductive material.
The recent discovery by JR-Hitachi joint research developed material using MgB2 that sustains super conductive magnetic field of 0.05 Tesla at temprature using freezing machinery instead of cost prohibitive liquid Helium. A coil made with this material was able to lift 630 Kg.
Future goals are set to develop material that can be mass producted which can create a 1~2 Tesla magnetic field at temprature obtainable using freezing machinery.

The potential commercial speed of super conductive maglev trains are set at 500Km presently, but with stronger superconductive magnets that sustain their abilities at higher temprature, the speed can easily be hiked up to 7~800Km.
The production cost of guide lines(tracks) will also be reduce significantly with introduction of these new magnets since less guide coils will be needed to be installed.

Beside Japan already has HSTs so maglev is the natural next step.
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Old June 8th, 2009, 09:10 AM   #64
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Maglev.. it's the only way to go. In America, we should have had maglev.. big time. The technology is not new. And the SSC (The Superconducting Super Collider (SSC) would have given us a tremendous boost in superconductors of energy.

And.. a maglev in a vacuum.. that would be faster than flying, (excepting over ocean travel) - plus, the weather wouldn't bother the maglev, in it's vacuum 'tube' - which might zip along at mach 3 or more..

The SSC was planned to be built mostly in Waxahachie, Texas, would have been the world's largest and highest-energy particle accelerator complex. Its planned ring circumference is 87.1 km (54 miles) with an energy of 20 TeV per beam, potentially enough energy to create a Higgs boson, a particle predicted by the Standard Model but not yet detected. The project's director was Roy Schwitters, a physicist at the University of Texas at Austin and Harvard University. The project was canceled in 1993. The politics.. backward looking 'conservative' types.. the same bunch that buried the Apollo moon program.

America is now (and for many, many years) has been a backward country. The future belongs to..? Probably China.
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Old June 8th, 2009, 06:28 PM   #65
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Conventional, We will see alot more maglevs but hell, it'll still be a while before locomotives become obsolete, if ever. Imagine, Maglev freight trains
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Old June 8th, 2009, 10:59 PM   #66
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Maglev
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Old June 9th, 2009, 01:02 AM   #67
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I believe conventional would remain the dominating trend for the next 60-70 years at least. Not because it's superior but because it'll probably take the majority next century for the majority of countries in the world to catch up to the latest in currently conventional technology.

The Japans and Germanys of Maglev will pop out during this time. But one can fully expect the same, if not longer, developmental lag between the early adopters and the general Mass. IE. Japan vs. USA vs. the Republic of Congo.
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Old June 9th, 2009, 01:10 PM   #68
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I believe in 2100 Maglev will be wide spread but there still will be conventional rail.
I just read the whole thread to get an idea of how people think about maglev all over the world and I am impressed by how little people actually know about maglev.
The times when maglev was more expensive than conventional high speed rail are history. Why are there so many people telling those old stories about maglev being more expensive than high speed rail? Just inform yourself! The latest developments of german companies like Max-Bögl ensure that maglev is about the same price conventional rail is. In Mountainious terrain maglev is cheaper than conventional rail at the moment. In future (given a significant market share for both) there wonīt be a big difference in track price for maglev or rail since itīs both nearly the same. Both need a very precise doubletrack and some kind of energy supply like long stator or overhead wire.

The difference between both systems is that maglev experiences far less wear and tear, is faster, more comfortable and less noisy than rail at the same price. So in the end it does more at lower price and this is why maglev is the future.

Given these facts it was a huge mistake of the Germans to invest in conventional high speed rail. These investments have to amortise themselves and are incompatible to maglev which damns the germans to stick to rail for the next decades even though there is a german-developed better alternative.

I just can lough on the Californians who are on the best way to do the same mistake some 30 years after Germany by backing a TGV-style High-Speed-Rail-net. The French are doing a pretty good job in marketing their outdated TGV-style-system whereas the Germans do nearly no marketing for Transrapid (in fact the advertise hsr). The Californians havenīt invested into high speed rail in the past, there is no single reason why they should invest in an outdated technology. Like UK they should directly jump to maglev. Maglev is exactly the same investment in California but the ride is faster, more reliable and cheaper due to lower maintenance cost. Think for yourself instead of believing marketing of foreign coutries who only follow their own economic interest. I just canīt believe how california can run into this high speed rail trap. It is such a great country, so many future orientated thinkin people and they just tap in to the trap just because Germany and France did so and now have an interest in growing hsr-market to lower prices of their own systems at home.
A maglev between LA and San Francisco would be a wise decision. Maglev perfectly fits into that case but people there seem not to know that, they just donīt care...
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Old June 9th, 2009, 03:29 PM   #69
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No worries, Japan will get Chuo Shinkansen maglev. The construction is already (quietly) on and JR-Central is getting not-so-showy but important practical things (human resource management, talks with local government, tunnel boring tests) rolling. Because they are not at all "showy", such news don't get translated into English.
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Old June 9th, 2009, 06:39 PM   #70
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There will be more maglevs in the future, of course but people can not honestly believe that the world will be all maglevs in 90 years... think of all the conventional track that exists, all over the world. What would we do with all that? What would we do with all the locomotives, freight cars and coaches that still exist? Scrap every single one of them?? I think it would be cool if Maglev freight trains were developed but at the same time I think that would be a while.


Some parts of the world still use steam engines, and most of the world still uses locomotive hauled trains, even the countries that use HSR still have locomotive hauled trains.

It would be a very sad day if locomotives became obsolete.
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Old June 9th, 2009, 07:19 PM   #71
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I think we are talking about high speed rail here. In hope that for HSR, maglev technology will become popular in the next 50 years but considering freight trains, I think it'll never happen.
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Old June 10th, 2009, 07:24 PM   #72
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....maglev 100%, thats for sure....

here you can see pictures of the latest Transrapid Generation.....


These are NOT renderings, but pictures of a real train.

The Transrapid 09 already reached 400 kmh on its Test-Track in the Emsland.
Its capable of "driving" up to 500 kmh in everyday service







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Old June 10th, 2009, 08:08 PM   #73
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These are great pictures!

@ rebasepoiss
There is already plans for freight maglevs. China is currently building a maglev system for transportation of coal:
http://www.drives.co.uk/fullstory.asp?id=2593

And Port of Longbeach is considering a freight maglev (probably based on Transrapid) for moving containers from the port to a truck station:
http://www.polb.com/news/displaynews...558&targetid=1

Using maglev for freight transport the air gap can be much lower than in case of high speed maglevs so an optimised freight maglev doesnīt consume more energy than a conventional freight rail.

I think weīll have conventional rail for many more decades but it will coexist with maglev which will grow its market share by time.
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Old June 11th, 2009, 03:31 AM   #74
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sweet deal

it doesn't get much more badass than a maglev freight train, imagine how big and fast they could get
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Old June 11th, 2009, 03:36 AM   #75
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Japan is making maglev lines right now for rapid transit.
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Old June 11th, 2009, 04:19 AM   #76
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Conventional - wheels on rails
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Old June 11th, 2009, 05:24 AM   #77
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A key advantage of Mag-lev is that it is able to accelerate much more quickly than conventional rail. Even if they go the same speed as conventional rail, they can in effect reach their destination faster and are more versatile. Remember, the average speed of Conventional rail is reduced a LOT whenever it has to slow down as it takes forever to speed up.

Acceleration is a big deal.
Speed is a big deal.
Efficiency is a big deal.
Aesthetics can be a big deal.
Noise is a big deal (in urban areas)

Mag-lev all the way. This is not to say that HSR will die, but new installations will likely be Mag-lev in the later half of of the century.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 04:32 AM   #78
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does anyone have any idea how much a typical transrapid train weighs in comparison to conventional trains? thanks
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Old June 16th, 2009, 09:17 AM   #79
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i honestly think that maglev will become popular where the population density and the configuration of settlements becomes extreme

- japan maglev will connect 30 M people (Tokyo area) with 15 M people (Osaka-Kyoto-Kobe area) and in between are 5 M people (at Nagoya) = thats 50 M people on a 550 km route... connect 50 M people in just an hour, that is why its gonna be worth it
but elsewhere in japan, they will stick to conventional rail
- in china, there are many possibilities, for example connecting 20 M people (in Beijing) with ~40 M people (in the Yellow river delta) in just 2 hrs: this will be feasible when china is richer and it will definitely be needed to provide additional capacity when the new traditional HSL reaches its limits. after all, there are multi-million agglomerations along that line ~every 100km :o
- in brazil, where Rio and Sao could be connected within the hour


so yes, maglev will eventually catch on but it will never take over HSR, just like there is still a need for streetcars and s-bahns, even though we have HSR now, they are both needed
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Old June 16th, 2009, 10:11 AM   #80
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India seems to have a big chance as well for nation-wide Maglev HS"R" network.
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