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View Poll Results: Which form of HSR will own the 21st. century?
Conventional - wheels on rails 163 52.24%
Maglev - magnetic levitation 116 37.18%
Horse drawn rail cars ^_^ 33 10.58%
Voters: 312. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 16th, 2009, 10:33 AM   #81
Knuddel Knutsch
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China's first low- to medium-speed magnetic levitation (maglev) train with full proprietary intellectual property rights began to run tests on June 15.

The train came off the production line and underwent debugging at CNR Tangshan Railway Vehicle Company. It marks that China has acquired the industrial manufacturing capacity to produce low- to medium-speed maglev trains.

Maglev train overcomes gravity by electromagnetic force which enables the train to suspend over the track, and is driven by Linear motors.

Compared with wheel-rail trains, the maglev train produces less noise and vibration. It has more flexible conditions and a lower construction cost to lay the railway line, and is easier to implement and maintain.

By People's Daily Online
Seem like china is getting serious about low speed maglevs...

Does anybody have pictures?
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Old June 16th, 2009, 01:47 PM   #82
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here we go



looks..uhm...cheap.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 11:04 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemeansgo View Post
A key advantage of Mag-lev is that it is able to accelerate much more quickly than conventional rail. Even if they go the same speed as conventional rail, they can in effect reach their destination faster and are more versatile. Remember, the average speed of Conventional rail is reduced a LOT whenever it has to slow down as it takes forever to speed up.

Acceleration is a big deal.
Speed is a big deal.
Efficiency is a big deal.
Aesthetics can be a big deal.
Noise is a big deal (in urban areas)

Mag-lev all the way. This is not to say that HSR will die, but new installations will likely be Mag-lev in the later half of of the century.
Acording to some sources the "conventional HSR" can be equiped with maglev traction in the future for use in HSR dedicated tracks ... here goes the world domination.
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Old June 18th, 2009, 09:57 AM   #84
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Some key news came out today....
JR Central submitted an official report to Mitsuo Horiuchi, the chairman of the maglev proponent lobbyists of the ruling LDP on the exact route of Maglev Chuo Shinkansen with reference to the associated cost (three possible routes are in consideration) and negotiations with local governments (esp. Nagano prefecture) are expected to follow. JR Central also released the likely layout of a station (4 platforms, big power converter underground etc....)
http://www.minyu-net.com/newspack/2009061801000291.html
http://www.genkihoriuchi.jp/result/index.html
(both in Japanese)

Not long ago, JR Central took in more-than-ever-before 1030 graduates, mainly from engineering background in this time of recession and explicitly stated that this is to prepare for Chuo Shinkansen
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/atmoney/new...OYT1T00839.htm (Japanese)

Last edited by 2co2co; June 18th, 2009 at 10:07 AM.
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Old June 20th, 2009, 03:26 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuddel Knutsch View Post
here we go



looks..uhm...cheap.

they're all cheap, relatively, 23 people died in a crash a couple years ago in Germany because of the trains cheap construction, it hit a track maintinence machine at 125 mph and the front car more or less exploded, destroying it and the machine.... hopefully they'll do some design revisions to make these things safer because that was extremely bad publicity for transrapid.
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Old June 21st, 2009, 02:31 AM   #86
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ehm a colision with 125mph will always kill everyone aboard, no matter how save you build the vehicle.
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Old June 21st, 2009, 04:19 AM   #87
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That's not entirely true,

A. It didn't even hit another train and B. Take even a light trainset like the TGV for instance, a while back, one hit an asphalt paving machine that weight 80 tons at about 135 kmh and miraculously not one person died. Also take the train in Czech republic a year ago that ran into a collapsed bridge at high speed, sadly there were 7 deaths but it could have been much worse. A similar incident happened with the ICE train in Germany where it hit a bridge, less than 23 people were killed.
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Old June 21st, 2009, 04:28 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
That's not entirely true,

A. It didn't even hit another train and B. Take even a light trainset like the TGV for instance, a while back, one hit an asphalt paving machine that weight 80 tons at about 135 kmh and miraculously not one person died. Also take the train in Czech republic a year ago that ran into a collapsed bridge at high speed, sadly there were 7 deaths but it could have been much worse. A similar incident happened with the ICE train in Germany where it hit a bridge, less than 23 people were killed.
Would the ICE incident have been recently or at Eschede?
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Old June 21st, 2009, 06:24 AM   #89
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Safety belts on trains = save everyone on board.


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Old June 21st, 2009, 06:07 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Century25 View Post
Maglev.. it's the only way to go. In America, we should have had maglev.. big time. The technology is not new. And the SSC (The Superconducting Super Collider (SSC) would have given us a tremendous boost in superconductors of energy.

And.. a maglev in a vacuum.. that would be faster than flying, (excepting over ocean travel) - plus, the weather wouldn't bother the maglev, in it's vacuum 'tube' - which might zip along at mach 3 or more..

The SSC was planned to be built mostly in Waxahachie, Texas, would have been the world's largest and highest-energy particle accelerator complex. Its planned ring circumference is 87.1 km (54 miles) with an energy of 20 TeV per beam, potentially enough energy to create a Higgs boson, a particle predicted by the Standard Model but not yet detected. The project's director was Roy Schwitters, a physicist at the University of Texas at Austin and Harvard University. The project was canceled in 1993. The politics.. backward looking 'conservative' types.. the same bunch that buried the Apollo moon program.

America is now (and for many, many years) has been a backward country. The future belongs to..? Probably China.
USA is in no position to spend trillions of dollars on a maglev network, the Obama administration is currently very busy bankrupting the country. USA is on a crash course heading into becomming a banana republic, sooner than later...
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Old June 21st, 2009, 11:22 PM   #91
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someone should invent inertial dampening and artificial gravity first
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Old June 22nd, 2009, 05:26 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
they're all cheap, relatively, 23 people died in a crash a couple years ago in Germany because of the trains cheap construction, it hit a track maintinence machine at 125 mph and the front car more or less exploded, destroying it and the machine.... hopefully they'll do some design revisions to make these things safer because that was extremely bad publicity for transrapid.
The accident was clearly not the fault of the technology. Read the background and you will see. If you override the security systems (which you have to have the possibility on a test track) its no wonder that they don't work.

In regular use this accident could not have happened.

Transrapid is definitely not some "cheap" design.
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Old June 22nd, 2009, 06:09 PM   #93
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its a cheap thing to criticize maglev based on 1 accident, every technology has had plenty

well, maybe not teleportation...yet
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Old June 22nd, 2009, 06:40 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
its a cheap thing to criticize maglev based on 1 accident, every technology has had plenty

well, maybe not teleportation...yet
I guess you haven't seen "the fly".
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Old June 22nd, 2009, 08:02 PM   #95
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By the way, is anyone aware of what lies BEYOND maglev technology?



Mass Driver

Anything of this scale will require a superconductor, and JR-Maglev is damn close to it.

So, Chuo Shinkansen might get Yamanashi -> Mt.Fuji summit -> (Earth orbit) route Oh well, maybe in the 22nd century, to launch their Gundams.
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Old June 23rd, 2009, 01:11 AM   #96
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Old June 25th, 2009, 01:01 PM   #97
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Conventional - wheels on rails
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Old June 26th, 2009, 12:23 AM   #98
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Safety
@ Jay
You are wrong about the ICE hitting a bridge. In this accident over 100 people died and the whole train was completely destroyed. Even people in the last vehicle of 14(!) died.

Now compare this to the Transrapid accident: Only people in the first vehicle died! The other vehicles still stood on the track and didn´t derail and people could escape. I think the pictures make things clearer:

ICE crash:


All vehicles are derailed and destroyed.


Transrapid crash:

First vehicle is damaged, following are ok. The train only had 3 sections.

I know that crashing a bridge is harder than crashing a steel truck but from what I know (and I know much in this case) transrapid is a very advanced and anything but crapy system. They put in extremly much redundancy like in the aircraft industry. The vehicle it self and the signaling system of Transrapid are safer than anything we know from rail. A conventional train has no redundancy. If one single wheel derails (like in the ICE accident above) the whole train is potentially dead. In case of Transrapid, the train even doesn´t have to stop if a single levitation system fails because others can do it´s job.

And yes they took some conclusions of the Transrapid accident. Older designs have seats up to the first meters of the vehicle. The new design has a crash zone in the front without seats which can absorb extremely much energy.



Here is a video of the new chinese urban maglev: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgGVS663utg

Yes it is cheap and it looks cheap but that is what makes it competitive! This is a very good design considering its working principal. (from a western perspective some better look would be good and there is some more tests to be done but thats only a question of time). It perfectly fits into the needs of public urban transportation because the design is cheaper than lightrail to build and causes far less maintenance cost. The train is also less noisy and can do better climbing and accelerating. This kind of train is what we´ll see first when maglev is being spread. Cost, noise, comfort, speed, in all these points this little maglev is better than light rail. It´ll take a long time until people accept this and believe the facts, especially due to those boneheaded rail romantics who spread wrong information about maglev as much as they can but from an pragmatic engineering perspective things are clear. Reality often isn´t that clear and pragmatic...
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Old June 28th, 2009, 09:29 PM   #99
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Both Maglev and Conventional rail are sustainable. For the 21st Century, conventional rail should dominate, but sometime after the 22nd century, Maglev rail is the way to go. Maglev is rare today and it is prohibitively expensive.
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Old June 29th, 2009, 09:00 AM   #100
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Interesting comparison of the crashes.

Conventional rail is more realistic. I only wish for MagLev.

Great poll.
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