Why isn't Hyde Park booming?

[The Urban Politician]

All of Chicago's relatively "good" neighborhoods are undergoing a real estate and construction boom--in fact, I can scarcely think of one that isn't--except Hyde Park. Certainly it isn't a south side thing, as hoods like Bronzeville, Kenwood, Woodlawn, even South Shore have a lot of construction going on. And it can't be just because Hyde Park is already built out--after all, so is Lincoln Park, Lakeview--etc., but there is still plenty of condo construction going on.

So what gives with Hyde Park? This issue is mentioned in this article about converting the historic Doctor's Hospital into condos:



Doctor’s Hospital for sale at 6/28 auction
By MIKE STEVENS

After months of delay, auctioneers are set to sell off one of the largest pieces of available Hyde Park real estate on June 28 at the Daley Center.
At least two developers expressed interest last week in buying the former Doctor’s Hospital, 5800 S. Stony Island Ave., which has stood vacant for five years and is currently entangled in bankruptcy proceedings.
“We’ve been tracking that property for 12 months,” said Fernando Leal, Managing Partner at L3 Development. “It took quite a bit of investigation and perseverance to find out what the skinny was on the property.“
L3 and Mid-Continental Corporation both confirmed plans to bid on the historic three-story brick building and offered similar outlooks of how they would transform the troubled property into high-end condominiums.
Although both expressed interest in preserving aspects of the 91-year-old brick facade they said that building additional stories of condominiums would access the site’s strongest selling point: superb views of Lake Michigan and neighboring Jackson Park.
“It’s a prime location for a tower or large building ... [but] there would have to be a lot of discussion with the local community [first],” Mid-Continental’s Eamonn McCauley said.
With construction nearly two years off no matter who wins the auction, Leal said L3 has no plans per se but allowed that new construction is possible.
“We try to restore buildings when possible but that sometimes becomes a very, very expensive process,” Leal said.
In comparison to the rest of Chicago, Hyde Park has seen much less new development, which often boosts housing demand, Leal said.
“You don’t see the cranes flying in Hyde Park and it really limits the housing stock for people interested in buying,” Leal said. “Even if the rest of the market slows we think there is a pent-up demand for housing in Hyde Park.”
The sellable views and the historic nature of the building has kept Mid-Continental interested in the property despite difficulties in tracking the legal status of the property or getting information on the sale, McCauley said.
Rumors that Draper and Kramer, arguably one of the biggest players in South Side real estate, was interested in the property for a brand new high-rise are unfounded, Draper and Kramer’s Assistant Vice-President Mel Jackson said.
Jackson is the receiver for the property as it awaits sale.
Real estate insiders said that more developers will likely make themselves known come auction day.
“We’ve had people calling here for years [about the property],” said Bob Mason, executive director the South East Chicago Commission, a University of Chicago-funded development and crime tracking group.
“I can’t imagine that there isn’t still a great deal of interest.”
The Hyde Park Historical Society included the former hospital on a list of 10 South Side sites it presented to the city’s landmark commission for landmark consideration. The protective status would prohibit the building’s demolition and limit the way the property could be developed.
L3 Development recently purchased a strip of commercial building on 53rd Street east of the Metra tracks

[chicagogeorge]

^
I think it's only a matter of time. Bridgeport/Canaryville which is 25 blocks north is just starting to boom. I spoke to a land developer from Franklin and Giles (who developed my building- Michigan Ave. Towers), and he said that there will be up to 5000 new housing units (residential/condos) built between 16th st South Loop area up through Bridgeport within the next couple of years.

If you want to see whats happening in each Chicago community interms of construction, go to this website. This will show you who's doing what based on permits being issued.

http://www.chicagoareahousing.org/GetPermits.aspx

[Rail Claimore]

Hyde Park will catch on soon. I'm seriously considering that neighborhood if I move to Chicago. It's a bit more spacious than the northside hoods, not full of too many yuppie douchebags, has decent rail access with the Metra Electric Line (the busiest and most frequent of the metra lines) which could be converted to a CTA style rapid transit line with express service too! It's surrounded by water on one side, parkland on two, and another up and coming neighborhood (Kenwood) to the north. And when I get enough money to buy a cool weekend car, it won't be as much of a hassle to find parking down there than anywhere on the north side. Need I mention it's arguably Chicago's most ethnically/racially diverse and integrated neighborhood? The only other two that come close are Bridgeport and South Loop.

Plus, I think the housing stock in traditional unblighted South Side neighborhoods in general is MUCH better than what you find in most North Side neighborhoods. This was Chicago's money side in the 19th and early 20th centuries.

[The Urban Politician]

Originally Posted by Rail Claimore

Hyde Park will catch on soon. I'm seriously considering that neighborhood if I move to Chicago. It's a bit more spacious than the northside hoods, not full of too many yuppie douchebags, has decent rail access with the Metra Electric Line (the busiest and most frequent of the metra lines) which could be converted to a CTA style rapid transit line with express service too! It's surrounded by water on one side, parkland on two, and another up and coming neighborhood (Kenwood) to the north. And when I get enough money to buy a cool weekend car, it won't be as much of a hassle to find parking down there than anywhere on the north side. Need I mention it's arguably Chicago's most ethnically/racially diverse and integrated neighborhood? The only other two that come close are Bridgeport and South Loop.

Plus, I think the housing stock in traditional unblighted South Side neighborhoods in general is MUCH better than what you find in most North Side neighborhoods. This was Chicago's money side in the 19th and early 20th centuries.

I also like Hyde Park. It's truly a great hood. However, it's cursed by its location. Not only that, but University of Chicago is cursed by this as well.

Of all the non-Chicagoans I meet who have lived in Chicago, the only ones who regularly have not come away with a good impression are people who went to U of Chicago. They seem to say the same thing: "I don't see what's so great about Chicago. It's not that great. It's all ghetto"

I honestly think this reflects Hyde Park's relative isolation, and the fact that a lot of these students probably spent most of their time in and around campus (and Hyde Park, although a gorgeous hood, REALLY lacks nightlife, etc) and did not venture out beyond the surrounding slums. If Hyde Park and the hoods around it could finally form an urban continuum to downtown, it would really take off (and U of C would become much, much more popular)

[Rail Claimore]

^I see that happening in 20 years.

[chicagogeorge]

I agree. in 20 years there will be an urban continuem all along the lakeshore. From Rogers Park on the northside all they down to Hyde Park on the southside. I stongly believe that the city is will to take all the necessary steps in order to make the entire lakeshore prime real estate. The lakeshore is one of Chicago's most valuable possessions. I think it will be easier to build up along the lakeshore south, than it would to build further west from D/T. I think the south loop is a prime example (not to say the west loop isn't doing well).

[Rail Claimore]

^Well, I personally think the West Loop should be an extention of Chicago's actual business district. It's good that they're building lofts and residential in the area, but those 30 or so blocks between the Kennedy and the River need to be reserved primarily for office space, as an extention of the Loop itself. Imagine what a Clinton Street subway (to make an underground blue-line loop) and West Loop rail hub would do. We'd be able to redefine the Loop itself across the river with such infrastructure.

[ChicagoLover]

I don't see Hyde Park getting too much denser than it is now, for several reasons. For one, aside from the UofC, the neighborhood is almost completely filled in with residential.
Booms in other neighborhoods seem to have occurred in part due to the availability of (1) shuttered commercial buildings ripe for loft conversion and (2) vacant and/or underused land. Hyde Park proper has little of this.

There are very few if any old commercial/light industrial buildings available for condominium conversion. To be sure, there are a few exceptions -- the old osteopathic hospital was converted to condos a number of years ago, and the former Doctor's Hospital on Cottage Grove that has been shuttered for several years will probably go condo in the next few years. Also, I believe UofC has announced that the Shoreland dormitory along the lake will be sold to a condo developer. (The University bought that building in the 1970s I believe as part of a broader effort to ward off further deterioration of the neighborhood. Now that blight is no longer encroaching on Hyde Park, the University administration would rather keep students close to campus.)

Teardowns of the pervasive 6-flat apartment houses in HP for new highrises seem unlikely to me due to the high probability of opposition from residents. I would imagine many residents would like to preserve Hyde Park's quiet, mostly low-density character. And Hyde Parkers are the type that seem naturally capable of organizing to fight developers interested in high density development.

The infill construction in Hyde Park over the last decade or so near the lakefront and elsewhere has generally been low density townhouses and high quality design. In the northwestern end of Hyde Park, for example, there is a series of well-designed rowhouses back-to-back designed by David Swan.

When I was living in Hyde Park 4 years ago, I was surprised that the infill close to the lake in the late 1990s was all low density townhouse style, where higher density high rise seemed more suitable, given sufficient demand. (Who wants a townhouse almost directly adjacent to Lake Shore Drive, when they can live in a condo atop several floors of well-disguised parking with a view of the lake and downtown?? I surmise that this low density was all the developer could wring out of the alderman and her well-organized residents.

The last highrise built in Hyde Park was, I believe, Montgomery Place, a retirement community across from the Museum of Science and Industry, in 1992 or so (?)

I see *substantial* barriers in the way of South Loop gentrification meeting North Kenwood gentrification. For one, the Stevenson expressway is a natural barrier that makes the area south of Cermak seem farther from downtown and less desirable. The Ida Wells housing project along King Drive is an even more substantial physical and psychological barrier between the two areas in terms of development.

[edsg25]

If you accept the premise that Hyde Park is not booming, it certainly can be considered an anchor for another area's boom. The vast amount of construction going on along the south side lakefront is a way of filling in and connecting the development from McCormick Place north with the Hyde Pk/Kenwood area. What I'm saying here is that Hyde Park is very much in the eye of the developers who see a region between McCPl and HP that can be filled in to achieve the quality of the areas on its north and south.

[Jaroslaw]

The main problem in HP is NIMBYs (who are all against sprawl too). Daley hates Hyde Parkers more than any other group of people in Chicago, probably, and one reason is that they are such **** self-righteous hypocrites. And all the retired profs (and their wives!) have a lot of time on their hands.

The second reason is that big developers seem to want to prefer big projects in downtown, leaving HP to the mom and pop guys who can't do the heavy lifting.

There are TONS of sites for redevelopment in HP, including literally acres along the train line.

There are two projects in the pipeline now. There is a huge lot on 53rd overlooking the park on Kenwood, a McD was demolished there and a Shell will go as well. About a year ago there was talk of an eight-story building, but the talk died down.

Now there is talk of an eight-story apartment building next to the Metra station on 53rd E of the tracks. The buildings there are now empty. Views from the Borders balcony and from street level:

[Jaroslaw]

Originally Posted by The Urban Politician

Of all the non-Chicagoans I meet who have lived in Chicago, the only ones who regularly have not come away with a good impression are people who went to U of Chicago. They seem to say the same thing: "I don't see what's so great about Chicago. It's not that great. It's all ghetto"

I honestly think this reflects Hyde Park's relative isolation, and the fact that a lot of these students probably spent most of their time in and around campus (and Hyde Park, although a gorgeous hood, REALLY lacks nightlife, etc) and did not venture out beyond the surrounding slums. If Hyde Park and the hoods around it could finally form an urban continuum to downtown, it would really take off (and U of C would become much, much more popular)

I find it incredible that any UC student would say "it's all ghetto." Sure, the ghetto is pretty pervasive here. But on a couple of occasions cops have complained to me that "the kids" in fact don't have enough awareness of the ghetto... they'd go to the hot dog stand on Cottage Grove at 2am, that kind of thing.

And all the undegrads have more or less mandatory outings to the Lyric, the symphony, etc. There is a direct bus now from campus to Belmont through downtown, and it's always packed. Evanston seems much more of a bubble for NW people than HP for UC.

I think the negative perceptions also come from the fact that UC students would have higher expectations of a city. Chicago is great if you come from... Detr... I mean, Indianapolis.

[ChicagoLover]

Well it looks like I'm way out of date. I didn't realize they had torn down the McDonalds on 53rd to make way for new development, nor that they are planning TODs near the Metra tracks. But I imagine Jaroslaw is right--Hyde Park is full of well-educated, well-organized NIMBYs.

[The Urban Politician]

This is from Hyde Park Herald. The whole version of an article provided at SSP:

Condo tower in works for 53rd
By MIKE STEVENS

A Chicago-based developer unveiled plans last week to build a 12-story residential tower at the northwestern corner of 53rd Street and Cornell Avenue.
The 136-foot-tall red brick structure will replace the vacant building at 1600-20 E. 53rd Street and will likely house 85 to 90 luxury condominiums as well as street-level retail, L3 Development Managing Director Fernando Leal said.
“We want to set the market, to set the standard for other developers who want to come in,” Leal told residents gathered at the June 15 East Hyde Park Committee meeting.
Leal hopes the 200,000-square-foot carved-stone and brick building will serve as a “flagship” development for additional projects that would make L3 one of the larger players in Hyde Park’s real estate market.
Leal told the Herald last week that a deal is all but done for L3 to purchase the Mobil gas station, car wash and adjacent lot at 1330 E. 53rd St.
“We’re figuring out what we can do there but we believe in Hyde Park and we think that these are very significant parcels,” Leal said.
L3 Development is also under contract to buy adjoining lots by the Vedanta Society at 5423 S. Hyde Park Blvd, Leal said.
In addition, the company will bid on the former Doctor’s Hospital, 5800 S. Stony Island Ave. on June 28.
Although far from guaranteed, when taken together the deals represent the most ambitious new residential development in almost a decade, according to Bob Mason, executive director of the South East Chicago Commission, a University of Chicago-funded crime and development tracking group.
“Outside of what Hal Lichterman (of Kenard Corp.) did over at the Osteopathic Hospital site, this is huge,” said Mason, referring to the condo conversion of the former hospital building at 5200 S. Ellis Ave. in the late 1990s.
In contrast to many developers wary of publicity that might rile residents, Mason said that L3 Development has volunteered to present plans to any interested community groups and seems receptive to community input.
Such openness does have costs, Leal joked.
“Much to the dismay of my wife [residents near my last development] had my home phone number,” Leal said.
Resident concerns at last week’s meeting centered around parking and affordable housing.
Part of the building set to be demolished sometime this summer served as a garage until recently. The lost parking spaces have lead to complaints in Ald. Leslie Hairston’s 5th Ward office, aide Sue Purrington said.
Delinquent rent payments and liability concerns forced the recent closure of the garage even though demolition has been put off until the completion of an environmental assessment of the former auto-repair shop and garage, Leal said.
Leal left open the option of renting parking spaces. An early plan calls for a multistory parking structure to be tucked behind 9,000-square-feet of retail space. Leal promised residents the space will be rented to a restaurant or another retailer that makes the corner a “dynamic location.”
“We will not have a bank,” Leal said in reaction to resident grumbling over the recent proliferation of bank branches.
Plans might also include up to 12,000-square-feet of office space on the second floor depending on parking demands.
Leal said they are trying to figure out what “affordable housing” means at a building where prices for three-bedroom units might start at $575,000 by the opening in late 2007 or 2008. “There is not a whole lot of precedence and we are trying to figure this out,” Leal said.
Leal will present plans at the July 11 TIF Council meeting at the Neighborhood Club.

[ChicagoLover]

Excellent. What is the deal with the names of these development firms? D2 in the South Loop, R2 and now L3? I 'm dying to see a rendering.

[wrabbit]

Physical isolation and NIMBYism. Honestly, if the city would just get its act together and push through a CTA conversion or light-rail line along the lakefront, say from Jackson Park to, at least, Lincoln Park Zoo, with stops at McCormick Place, Museum Campus & Streeterville. This would be awesome for both lakefront communities and for tourists (who bring $ with them). Ironically, Chicago's very first such line was, I believe, a link between the Loop & Jackson Park, for visitors to the World Columbian Exposition...

[ChicagoLover]

Ironically, Chicago's very first such line was, I believe, a link between the Loop & Jackson Park, for visitors to the World Columbian Exposition...

I believe this includes the present-day Green Line. The Green Line used to head east to Jackson Park from its present day terminus. The present terminus is in the Woodlawn neighborhood at Cottage Grove and 63rd Street or thereabouts, I believe. When I was in Hyde Park in 1996, a section of unused Green Line was still standing above 63rd street, which had become a dead zone. The last leg of the Green Line was not in use due to very weak demand; Woodlawn had lost considerable density. At the time, CTA authorities argued that dismantling of the unused segment was essential in order to attract development to the once-bustling, now nearly vacant commercial strip.

Some would argue that this was a foolhardy decision. Afterall, the L hasn't been an impediment to development on the North or Northwest sides, where expensive condos are built within close proximity to the L, the infamous Blues Brothers apartment notwithstanding. (To be sure, a quick counterargument is that most of the elevated lines on the north and northwest sides run above alleyways, not major thoroughfares. And in places where elevated lines do run over streets, these streets seem to have suffered from it; the streets with the most vacant buildings in the Loop seem to be those with elevated lines over them.) Clearly there were much, much more powerful forces responsible for the severe decline in business activity on 63rd. However, maybe one would argue that once urban decay had taken its course, the El trains had become an impediment to attracting "urban frontierspeople" interested in buying property in such neighborhoods as Woodlawn as long as crime could be kept under control.

To my knowledge, very few Hyde Park residents, including UofC students, walked south to take the Green Line downtown, even though this route would have been more convenient than the alternatives for some. Instead, many students rode the 55th/Garfield bus to catch the Red Line in the median of the Dan Ryan. That route is ridiculously circuitous. Then again, some of the more street smart, urbanified students who lived south of the Midway would ride the Green Line and thought it ridiculous that other students would take such efforts and circuitous routes to avoid it.

[The Urban Politician]

Originally Posted by ChicagoLover

I believe this includes the present-day Green Line. The Green Line used to head east to Jackson Park from its present day terminus. The present terminus is in the Woodlawn neighborhood at Cottage Grove and 63rd Street or thereabouts, I believe. When I was in Hyde Park in 1996, a section of unused Green Line was still standing above 63rd street, which had become a dead zone. The last leg of the Green Line was not in use due to very weak demand; Woodlawn had lost considerable density. At the time, CTA authorities argued that dismantling of the unused segment was essential in order to attract development to the once-bustling, now nearly vacant commercial strip.

Some would argue that this was a foolhardy decision. Afterall, the L hasn't been an impediment to development on the North or Northwest sides, where expensive condos are built within close proximity to the L, the infamous Blues Brothers apartment notwithstanding. (To be sure, a quick counterargument is that most of the elevated lines on the north and northwest sides run above alleyways, not major thoroughfares. And in places where elevated lines do run over streets, these streets seem to have suffered from it; the streets with the most vacant buildings in the Loop seem to be those with elevated lines over them.) Clearly there were much, much more powerful forces responsible for the severe decline in business activity on 63rd. However, maybe one would argue that once urban decay had taken its course, the El trains had become an impediment to attracting "urban frontierspeople" interested in buying property in such neighborhoods as Woodlawn as long as crime could be kept under control.

^Interesting. Yet in CTA maps (and from what you say), the Green Line still runs through 63rd street. So despite a discussion to dismantle that station, it still functions. Am I right about that?

[ChicagoLover]

^I should have been more clear. The segment from University to Dorchester was dismantled, apparently in September 1997. The events leading up to demolition are chronicled here: http://www.chicago-l.org/history/CTA4.html

[BVictor1]

Empty Doctors Hospital might go condo

June 29, 2005

BY DAVID ROEDER SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST


The developer who converted the Ambassador West hotel to luxury condos is looking to Hyde Park for his next big move. And one possibility is getting control of the old Doctors Hospital at 5800 S. Stony Island.

Fernando Leal, managing director of L3 Development LLC, said the site attracts him because it sits on three acres. Leal also is dealing with community groups on a plan to build 90 to 120 condos at the northwest corner of 53rd and Cornell.

He's one of several potential bidders for the hospital site, which was scheduled to go through a foreclosure auction Tuesday. But the auction was postponed until Sept. 8 with no reason given.

The hospital has attracted attention from preservationists, who might ask the city to designate it a landmark. It was built in 1914 by the firm Schmidt, Garden and Martin and sits opposite Jackson Park and the Museum of Science and Industry.

Leal, who wouldn't disclose what he's offered for the property, said he would like to preserve the facade by making it part of a larger condo structure.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by chicagogeorge

I agree. in 20 years there will be an urban continuem all along the lakeshore. From Rogers Park on the northside all they down to Hyde Park on the southside. I stongly believe that the city is will to take all the necessary steps in order to make the entire lakeshore prime real estate. The lakeshore is one of Chicago's most valuable possessions. I think it will be easier to build up along the lakeshore south, than it would to build further west from D/T. I think the south loop is a prime example (not to say the west loop isn't doing well).

George, I wonder how much of this could be fostered by creating a South Side equivalent to the LSD's Inner Drive on the North Side. Wouldn't it be more than feasible to cover the Metra tracks from south of McCPl down to Kenwood (where the tracks curve inland) with an inner drive, tied to the neighborhoods? South Side gentrification is successfully taking place, but realistically the lakefront should be high rise in nature, taking advantage of the fabulous views. High rise construction is not really a part of the current mix. Again, the McCPl-to-Kenwood stretch, with an Inner LSD of its own, would be prime property for high rise construction that would only fuel redevelopment inland. If there is any question on how that works, may I suggest a visit to the Gold Coast, Lincoln Park, Lakeview, etc.