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Old April 4th, 2005, 04:40 PM   #1
Justin6882
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Raleigh: New Glenwood South Development

Hot area could get new development

Looks like the Dawson developer has plans to build another condo tower, possibly larger than the Dawson, about two blocks from the GloSo area.

And it also looks like the Dawson officially opens today...I know those people are going to be thrilled to move in! I'm jealous!
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Old April 4th, 2005, 04:58 PM   #2
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I guess I can say that Raleigh is a part of the downtown condo boom like its sister city (charlotte) on a smaller scale.
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Old April 4th, 2005, 07:26 PM   #3
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First of all, I am glad someone posted this news (thanks Justin). Second, I have to agree with EJohnson about the condo boom all over DT Raleigh: Paramount, Hudson, Palladium and Quorum Center - although partially - are some of the several condo projects either under construction or coming up.

That having been said, I must admit that I am a bit skeptic about assigning the term "tower" to this new project. Sandreuter, although he means well, doesn't seem to have the ability to deliver something major. If we consider that the amount of space he has available is about twice as much as he had for The Dawson, and the fact that he used the latter as a point of reference, you can imagine that we won't see anything larger than 5-6 stories, even if he does something 1.5 times larger. Don't get me wrong, I am excited about the opportunity to replace a large suface lot, and I know that it is easier to dream big than delivering big, but such a great piece of real estate deserves more. A 10-15 story building would have been more appropriate for that site, considering that the [new] nearby projects are mostly of that size (Quorum Center, 222 Glenwood and Paramount). Just for the record, let's take a look at the original plan for The Dawson:



Of course, we should never underestimate the number of residential/mixed-use projects that are either under construction, approved or envisioned. I know we've mentioned them here and there, but let's create a summary:

UNDER CONSTRUCTION:
  • Quorum Center - 15 stories/mixed-use.
  • Paramount - 10 stories
  • Dawson - 5 stories, with restaurant/retail on the ground floor.
  • Hudson - 5 stories with restaurant/retail/TV studio on the ground floor.

APPROVED:
  • Palladium Plaza - 5 stories.
  • Metropolitan - 8 stories.
  • Bloomsbury Estates I and II - 6 stories each.

ENVISIONED:
  • Reynolds Tower - 32 stories/mixed-use.
  • The mystery 20+ story condo tower (not even officially talked about yet).
  • 222 Glenwood - 12 stories (8 residential floors, with 4 stories of parking deck and restaurant/retail on the ground floor).
  • Peace Str/Boylan Ave - 4 stories with retail on the ground floor.

If we were to add the small area plans for North Blount Street, Moore Square, and South End, along with several smaller residential projects (e.g. the 3-story mixed-use building that will replace Person Street Plaza), it would have been clear as to why a residential project in DT Raleigh cannot reach new heights; there will be a tremendous number of residential projects poured into the market pretty soon. This is why several projects have been stalled (not cancelled) and why I don't think Sandreuter will go as high as he could. Of course, I may be proven wrong (amen to that) later on, if demand actually picks up.

Regardless, it is a great thing to see interest shifting towards that huge void between Glenwood South and the State Government Complex. There is one more infill that has been planned for the tract across, to the West, right next to the railroad tracks. The original plan was for a 5-story office building, but there was discussion of scaling down to 3 stories, unless demand picks up before the deal gets finalized (hopefully). Greg Hatem has similar plans for the area directly to the South, but his projects are the kind of projects we don't need (personal opinion), so I won't mention them as much here.
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Last edited by Raleigh-NC; August 3rd, 2005 at 04:23 PM.
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Old August 2nd, 2005, 09:50 PM   #4
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If anyone is intrested there is now a website devoted the the Bloomsbury Estate project. I guess they are a little closer to trying to break ground.

Bloomsbury Estates
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Old August 2nd, 2005, 11:59 PM   #5
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I knew about the web page, but last time I checked it there was no substantial information. Many thanks for reminding me By the way, did you notice that the number of floors increased from 5 to 6. Look at the following renderings:

ORIGINAL:


RECENT:


SITE MAP:


I am sure y'all noticed the strange placement of the buildings Can't say I am excited about this part of the project, but Bloomsbury Estates is nevertheless a great addition to that area (could we consider it Boylan Heights). With 68 units, this project is neither small, nor huge, but judging from the video clips and the renderings the architecture and the interiors will be a very elegant. What good would it be with some renderings?






How about some "before" photos? The first one shows the point where St Mary's Str terminates on Hargett Str; facing South:


Here you see the entrance to Bloomsburry Estates from Hargett Str; facing South-East:


Hargett Str, near its intersection with Boylan Ave; facing East. You can barely see Wachovia Center:
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Last edited by Raleigh-NC; October 6th, 2005 at 09:15 PM. Reason: Added text.
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 02:05 AM   #6
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I'm a little confused with the placement of this lot. The "site" map has it east of Boylan and North of Hargett. The area map has it west of Boylan. The site map also has a railroad to the north of the lot. Regardless though, the 6th floor will have a heck of a view.
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 03:48 AM   #7
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I think North is down on that site plan.
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 04:22 AM   #8
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I wonder whether they're planning on building over their surface lots in a later phase?

Anyway, I do think the building placement is odd, but the location is nice in that it expands the "de facto" footprint of downtown. I would rather see something with ... well, less surface parking... so near to the TTA station, but, eh. What can you do?
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 03:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orulz
I wonder whether they're planning on building over their surface lots in a later phase?

Anyway, I do think the building placement is odd, but the location is nice in that it expands the "de facto" footprint of downtown. I would rather see something with ... well, less surface parking... so near to the TTA station, but, eh. What can you do?
That's exactly what I was thinking! Still, a potentially cool addition to the skyline...
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 04:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romec
I'm a little confused with the placement of this lot. The "site" map has it east of Boylan and North of Hargett. The area map has it west of Boylan. The site map also has a railroad to the north of the lot. Regardless though, the 6th floor will have a heck of a view.
Actually, the placement is correct, atlthough North normally appears to the top. If you look at the site map (image below), Boylan Ave is to the East (left) of the buildings and Hargett Str to the North (bottom). The pointer below the "TO HARGETT STREET" is close to St Mary's Str end on Hargett Str.



@orulz: My thoughts, exactly. However, I don't think that any development will go there in the future. I am not sure why the developer chose that kind of placement Not only it doesn't look good, but it also minimizes the possibility for future additions. Where the parking lot appears is a great spot for a 10-12 story mid-rise, which would be tall enough to provide great views of downtown. I am so confused about that pattern of development, but let's face it, going from 5 to 6 stories and maintaining a historic architecture provides a great addition to that area and we should be happy about it. Not only we get 68 more units in downtown - I wonder how this number came up because each building gets 47 units, which brings the total to 94 - but it also encourages more interesting & historic architecture; that's a lot of brick!!!
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 04:50 PM   #11
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You may find it hard to believe, but I just realized that this thread was an old one. We have distracted from the original topic, which was about a new development in Glenwood South. Anyway, since we distracted a bit, lets add one more entry. Does anyone know about this project?


Image is courtesy of Venture Graphics Inc.

According to the name of the rendering, it is a Morgan Street elevation, which I am sure refers to Morgan Street in DT Raleigh. I suspect this was one of the early renderings of what is now The Dawson, but I may be wrong. Anyone knows anything about it?
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 07:25 PM   #12
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OOOhhh. That's Plush, I like that rendering, but I have no idea where it came from. I wish it was the dawson. Or maybe it will be in that vacant lot on Morgan St.
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 08:30 PM   #13
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Raleigh is definitely changing. I lived in Raleigh all my life until 6 months ago, when I moved to Tampa, FL. Its a nice change, but I do get homesick at times, especially when I see all the new development in Raleigh. I have a feeling I won't recognize Raleigh in a few years!

Although, Tampa does keep me busy with all its planned projects. They are building so many towers down here its crazy. I can't wait until they are all done. We will have Trump Tower which is 52 stories, and several 40+ story buildings, not to mention all the others.
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 08:44 PM   #14
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@tayfromnc: Let's hope it is another project, although I have my doubts. Looking at the earlier rendering for the 15-story version of The Dawson, I see a lot of resemblance between the two images.

@randommichael: Tampa is off the hook!!! Personally I like its skyline and can't wait to see how it will look like after most the towers are finished. Tampa's skyline leaves Raleigh's in the dust, but I have a feeling that Raleigh will more than make up in terms of urbanity... in its core, of course. What DT Raleigh needs is a few successful high-rise projects above 25 stories. I am confident that there will follow a high-rise craze after Reynolds Tower is finished. Nothing like Tampa, but nevertheless interesting enough to make DT Raleigh a "new" place in the next 5 years.
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 09:21 PM   #15
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Tampa has a great skyline. All the new towers are residential. The only problem is they are all very upscale. The majority of them have condos that start over $1 million, and go as high as $6 million. There are a few which start at $200k, but for that you get a very small space, and not much of a view. I wish we could get companies to stop moving out of downtown so we could get a new office tower or two, but that might take a while to happen. For some reason, everyone wants to move their offices to the burbs for the cheaper space. Oh well!
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 10:32 PM   #16
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I understand what you say, and I agree. However, there is a good side to offerring so many upscale condos: tax resources and perception. The city can justify putting more money downtown when much of the income comes from there. In Raleigh, we suffered from not having enough resources to justify public spending to the core, but this is slowly changing. Also, corporations bring huge financial resources to the city, but if the center lacks substantial amount of residents it will be a hard sell. Anyway, Tampa is up and coming, much like Raleigh, even though in a different way.
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 10:36 PM   #17
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They are both great cities. I'm really glad we moved to Tampa. I do miss Raleigh though. I can't wait to go back in December. I have a feeling I won't recognize some parts of town. Since I left there were several new neighborhoods around my parents area, and new projects going up downtown. Which is bigger, the Raleigh MSA or the Tampa MSA? I know this county has over a million people, and then Pinellas (St. Pete) has about a million. Isn't that about the size of Wake county? I would think they are about the same, but I assume Tampa is more dense, but I haven't seen any numbers to back that up.
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 11:42 PM   #18
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Tampa MSA is definitely larger than Raleigh MSA, even when considering the entire Triangle. However, Raleigh has surpassed Tampa in terms of population, according to the last numbers I've seen for the last few years. As for the density, Tampa should be about 25%-30% denser than Raleigh. I am not sure of the exact numbers, but I am more than certain Tampa is denser. Of course, Florida is also much larger in population than North Carolina, so naturally I would expect denser cities. On the other hand, how much of that population/density is not seasonal I cannot say.

On the positive side, Raleigh is definitely getting denser, even though the quality of that density may not be in the traditional urban fashion. It is not just downtown and the suburbs that get the boost. There are areas all over the city that get new developments, some of which are of higher density. Will you recognize Raleigh next time you are here? More than likely, yes, but you will be surprised with projects like Paramount and Quorum Center. I do not foresee any major changes elsewhere, unless 222 Glenwood, Glen-Tree and Reynolds Tower break ground and move in an ultra-fast manner
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