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View Poll Results: What do you think of congestion pricing?
Yes, it helps pay for mass transit. 5 41.67%
Yes, it gets me past traffic. 0 0%
No, it only gets used by the rich. 3 25.00%
No, it does nothing for traffic. 4 33.33%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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Old August 10th, 2008, 04:57 PM   #201
Longershanks
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HOV - spare capacity not sold hence lanes always seem somewhat empty
HOT - Spare capacity sold until lanes flowing at optimum speed

HOT lanes give more bang for the buck
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Old August 10th, 2008, 05:03 PM   #202
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So you can just buy your way through the traffic jam? Ultimate capitalism I guess, but if people want to do it, be my guest.

The problem with HOV lanes is that they often consume more space, especially with those HOV lanes which are not immediatly adjacent to the regular lanes, you have one HOV lane where you could've put 2 normal lanes.

Proponents of HOV lanes will say it has a higher capacity because it transports more people, however, capacity is calculated in the number of vehicles, not the number of travellers inside a vehicle. However, I do believe HOV lanes are a good choice in major cities because it stimulates people to have a higher amount of travellers per vehicle. The downside is that HOV lanes can only exist if the regular lanes are often jammed, so it's not a real solution to traffic congestion.
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Old August 10th, 2008, 05:20 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
So you can just buy your way through the traffic jam? Ultimate capitalism I guess, but if people want to do it, be my guest.

The problem with HOV lanes is that they often consume more space, especially with those HOV lanes which are not immediatly adjacent to the regular lanes, you have one HOV lane where you could've put 2 normal lanes.

Proponents of HOV lanes will say it has a higher capacity because it transports more people, however, capacity is calculated in the number of vehicles, not the number of travellers inside a vehicle. However, I do believe HOV lanes are a good choice in major cities because it stimulates people to have a higher amount of travellers per vehicle. The downside is that HOV lanes can only exist if the regular lanes are often jammed, so it's not a real solution to traffic congestion.
In Madrid it is inmediately adjacent to the lanes, in fact it is in between the left and right lanes.

http://xarxamobal.diba.cat/XGMSV/ima...s/bus_vao.jpeg
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Old August 10th, 2008, 09:21 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
So you can just buy your way through the traffic jam? Ultimate capitalism I guess, but if people want to do it, be my guest.

The problem with HOV lanes is that they often consume more space, especially with those HOV lanes which are not immediatly adjacent to the regular lanes, you have one HOV lane where you could've put 2 normal lanes.

Proponents of HOV lanes will say it has a higher capacity because it transports more people, however, capacity is calculated in the number of vehicles, not the number of travellers inside a vehicle. However, I do believe HOV lanes are a good choice in major cities because it stimulates people to have a higher amount of travellers per vehicle. The downside is that HOV lanes can only exist if the regular lanes are often jammed, so it's not a real solution to traffic congestion.
In my state of Washington. Our HOV lanes are connected right to the freeway as an additional lane plus a shoulder on the side. The upside of HOV lanes is that some cities use their buses on the freeways making the travel times more reliable with an HOV lane due to congestion. What might want to be recommended if you can stick two lanes into 1 HOV lane, perhaps create an express tollway (2 HOT lanes essentially) where HOVs are still free and single occupancies can pay there way in based off of congestion based pricing.

If there is a solution to traffic congestion, there has to be more modes of transport and high frequencies in order to make the mode competitive against the car.
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Old August 11th, 2008, 06:43 AM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadUser View Post
Haven't we had this discussion before?

Anyway, Israel's Road 6, which is our only toll road, has the same system.
That's because the system of Road 6 is directly based on our 407 (designed by the same company)
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Old August 11th, 2008, 07:44 AM   #206
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Yeah, but you were talking about it from your perspective in Virginia.
Well, we do have a balanced perspective... being a swing state (purple state). And don't we have similar perspectives? Being Americans
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Old August 11th, 2008, 02:40 PM   #207
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If there is a solution to congestion then it is adopting a users pay principle.

Most people treat roads as 'free' ways. They are not free they cost money to build and maintain. If the true cost of your journey (road building, maintenance, congestion, petrol, policing, pollution etc etc) was actually built into the cost then public transport would be cost competitive and there would be more of it. Cities would be designed to facilitate public transport and popular urban areas would be close to good subway routes not in the MuckBurbs.

my 2 pennies worth..
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Old August 11th, 2008, 02:53 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
capacity is calculated in the number of vehicles, not the number of travellers inside a vehicle.
Governments count cars because it is easier not because it is the right measure. Roads are for people and freight, vehicles are just a means to an end not the end!

Last edited by Longershanks; August 11th, 2008 at 02:58 PM.
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Old August 11th, 2008, 03:03 PM   #209
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Yeah, but road capacity is simply measured in the number of vehicles per hour per lane.
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Old August 11th, 2008, 03:54 PM   #210
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I believe the UN uses passenger numbers and Tonnes of Freight to calculate traffic density. If your local Government uses a rough count of cars and HGV's then they're are either being lazy or have close relationships with the construction industry. Vehicles are a means not the end.
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Old August 11th, 2008, 08:18 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longershanks View Post
I believe the UN uses passenger numbers and Tonnes of Freight to calculate traffic density.
Not for design specifics, only to calculate the traffic prestation. (like in billion miles travelled). As far as I know, the UN does not design freeways.
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Old August 11th, 2008, 10:39 PM   #212
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For the Stockholm congestion zone there are numerous toll stations that register the licence plates and then the system sends the owner a bill the following month. This means that only Swedish cars are subject to the toll. Cars need not slow down when passing these.

The only other two toll stations are at the two bridges leading to Norway and Denmark. These are conventional toll plazas of the type seen in Spain, France, Portugal, Morocco, Croatia etc.
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Old August 12th, 2008, 04:06 AM   #213
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The Chicago area has around 450KM of toll roads. The tolls vary, but it costs around 40 cents to drive on them for 16KM.

They're currently widening almost all of the toll roads to between 8 and 10 lanes.

I-80
I-88
I-90
I-94
I-294
I-355

In 1959 the system carried around:

42,800,000 vehicles

In 2006 the system carried around:

764,137,000 vehicles

Last edited by Chicagoago; August 12th, 2008 at 04:12 AM.
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Old August 12th, 2008, 01:16 PM   #214
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In Brazil we have fixed-price toll boths only, on selected roads, operated by private companies under 20 to 30 yrs agreements. Because almost all of those roads are not freeways or with controlled-acess, with plenty of sideway acess and local traffic, it is estimated that more than half of traffic just don't have to pay tolls because they don't drive through toll both.

There's a handfull of electronic-collecting schemes with magnetic cards (being phased out) or electronic tags, but unfortunatelly not all of them are mutually compatible.
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Old August 12th, 2008, 01:40 PM   #215
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Quote:
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The Chicago area has around 450KM of toll roads. The tolls vary, but it costs around 40 cents to drive on them for 16KM.
Wow, that's like € 0,016 per km. I think they charge almost 7 times more in France and Italy.
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Old August 12th, 2008, 04:22 PM   #216
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Just for purposes of comparison - the most tolled road over here is the N3 between Durban and Johannesburg. (Doing that drive in a few weeks by the way, will see if I can get some photos.)

At the moment, the toll fees for a light motor vehicle are:

Mariannhill: R6.50
Mooi: R27.00
Tugela: R38.00
Wilge: R36.00
De Hoek: R26.00

That's R133.50 (€11.50, $17.20). The trip is 560km or so, so that's R0.23/km (€0.021/km, $0.031/km). Not too bad.

Having said that, there are proposed toll plazas along a lot of Johannesburg's freeways; if they are ever built (which seems rather likely), some sections of road there will likely have a higher rate per kilometre than the N3.
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Old August 12th, 2008, 04:30 PM   #217
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Well, toll has to be compared to the average income ofcourse. You can't charge 15 eurocents per kilometer on an African motorway if it is the same like a meal in say Senegal or Nigeria.
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Old August 12th, 2008, 09:09 PM   #218
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I believe that French toll ways are one of the most expensive in the world. U have to pay about 65 euro to get from the swiss border to the south of Belgium.
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Old August 13th, 2008, 02:09 AM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Vignette. That's for vehicles under 3.5 t, for others, toll booths are still in use.
I read in another forum, that there is a roundabout south of Pesnica (where a motorway ends?) which technically is part of the motorway. that means, that you need a vignette just to drive though this roundabout, even when you don't want to enter the highway.

The fine if you are catched by the police if you don't have a vignette is around 300€. But there is a bike road nearby, and if the police catches you there, the fine is around 85€ (but you have to drive back).

is that true?
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Old August 13th, 2008, 11:08 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by Virginia Lover View Post
Alaska doesn't have enough people for toll roads to work. And it pays for its highways and roads with oil from Prudhoe Bay.
Actually you have to pay toll for the one-laned rail/road tunnel between Porter and Whittier
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