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View Poll Results: What do you think of congestion pricing?
Yes, it helps pay for mass transit. 5 41.67%
Yes, it gets me past traffic. 0 0%
No, it only gets used by the rich. 3 25.00%
No, it does nothing for traffic. 4 33.33%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 26th, 2008, 08:30 PM   #241
ElviS77
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I think tolls can be justified. It depends on other taxes already existing, and that's why I'm against additional tolling in the Netherlands. They say on average it's not gonna cost more, but I doubt that, since there are more cars than households in the Netherlands, and quite some people have a second car that doesn't drive very much, so the "average" might be something like 12.000 kilometers, and LOTS of people drive more than that. If you commute 25 kilometers, that's already about 12.500 kilometers a year
I agree in principle. In Norway, where drivers also are taxed heavily anyway (a new, mid-size sedan, say a Toyota Avensis, will set you back about 35.000 euros, for instance), tolls should not be necessary. However, many projects - both sensible and insane - would not have happened if it hadn't been for tolls, and without them, any improvements to an abysmal road network would happen even slower than it is today.
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Old November 27th, 2008, 08:14 AM   #242
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Italy may freeze road tolls, rail prices -Vegas

ROME, Nov 21 (Reuters) - The Italian government will consider freezing highway tolls and rail ticket prices at a cabinet meeting next Wednesday, Treasury Under-Secretary Giuseppe Vegas said on Friday.

"Yes, that should be there, but it's still soon, we are considering it," Vegas said when asked by journalists if the measure would be part of a package of policies aimed at stimulating the economy that the cabinet will pass next week.
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 06:30 PM   #243
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Italy not blocking energy, road tariffs - Trsy

ROME, Dec 2 (Reuters) - Italy's economic stimulus package does not impose a block on regulated prices for electricity, gas and road tolls, the Economy Ministry said on Tuesday.

When the package was presented on Friday, Economy Minister Giulio Tremonti said that prices would be temporarily frozen or reduced as a way of helping consumers. The shares of utility company ENEL were hit by the announcement.

A statement by the economy ministry on Tuesday said the regulated prices of road tolls, electricity and gas would not be subject to a block but would continue to be determined by the relevant regulatory authorities.
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 07:29 PM   #244
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Background
Toll highways are nothing new. However, with limited infrastructure budgets around the world, would you support tolls to fund expansion and maintenance, such as adding tolls to existing highways or building new toll highways?

N.J. considers turning free highways into private toll roads
By BETH DeFALCO
15 November 2006

TRENTON, N.J. (AP) - Some long and winding roads may lead to New Jersey lowering its sky-high property taxes and increasing aid to school districts.

Besides considering selling or leasing the New Jersey Turnpike and Garden State Parkway, Gov. Jon S. Corzine's administration on Wednesday said it wants more information on the pros and cons of converting several freeways into tollways.

Indiana has leased its northern toll road for 75 years for $3.8 billion.

Specifically, the state is looking to hire transportation consultants to study the conversion of routes 78, 80 and 95, the Pulaski Skyway and the section of Route 440 in Middlesex County between the New Jersey Turnpike and the Garden State Parkway to toll roads, according to a request for proposals released Wednesday.

Privatizing New Jersey roads is just one of the ideas Corzine is considering as a way to help shore up state finances and lower the state's highest-in-the-nation property tax.

"The administration will be looking into the pros and cons, the upsides and downsides and what is in the best interests of taxpayers and users of our assets," said Corzine spokesman Anthony Coley. "After all is said and done, the most favorable option for an asset could very well be to do nothing."

State Senate President Richard Codey has said money earned from transferring control of state assets such as the Turnpike or Garden State Parkway to an outside entity not only could allow the state to slash property taxes by an average of 20 percent, but also increase school funding by $1 billion.

Besides trying to figure out the value of privatizing tollways, consultants will also try to determine the impact adding new tolls would have on nearby roads.

States are allowed to set up tollways on interstate highways but must first get the approval of the Federal Highway Administration.

The Star-Ledger of Newark first reported on the plan for new tollroads in Wednesday's newspapers.

Meanwhile, New Jersey officials have been eying as examples two recent toll-road leases, one in Chicago and one in Indiana, both of which leased roadways to a Spanish-Australian consortium.

Chicago will get $1.83 billion for a 99-year lease.

Under the Indiana agreement, the consortium can begin raising tolls annually either by 2 percent, the rate of inflation or increase in gross domestic product, beginning in 2010. Most of the lease money will be used to help finance hundreds of highway and other transportation projects, according to Indiana officials.

However, some New Jersey lawmakers question the benefits of letting a private company run some of the busiest roads in America.

"I am not convinced that there is support for the sale or lease of the toll roads to a for-profit private company," said Assemblyman John Wisniewski, chairman of the Assembly Transportation and Public Works Committee.

Wisniewski said he doubts a private company can make enough money off a toll road lease without increasing tolls. Otherwise, he said, the state would be making billions off toll roads already.

"If we want more to come out of the road," he said, "we have to put more into the road."

------

Associated Press Writer Tom Hester Jr. contributed to this report.
George Carlin (RIP) called New Jersey the "Tollbooth State" back in 1986!!! I wonder what he would think should this go forward.
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Old December 4th, 2008, 06:44 PM   #245
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Pa. Turnpike officials warn tolls about to jump
4 December 2008

HARRISBURG, Pa. (AP) - Pennsylvania Turnpike officials are reminding motorists that tolls will rise by 25 percent in January.

The increase is paying for mass transit subsidies and improvements to the state's roads and bridges under a transportation bill passed in 2007.

The most common toll paid by passenger vehicles will go from 75 cents to 95 cents, while a typical truck's tolls will be $7.85, up from $6.25.

The turnpike's annual revenues will climb from $619 million to about $738 million.

Higher tolls will take effect Jan. 4 over nearly the entire 545-mile system. The only exceptions are some newly opened sections of the turnpike in western Pennsylvania.

It's the sixth rate change in 68 years. The most recent toll increase occurred four years ago.
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Old December 4th, 2008, 07:47 PM   #246
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Nah, American toll roads are generally still much cheaper than European tollroads. (except some HOT-systems perhaps).
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Old December 7th, 2008, 02:48 PM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
and tolled motorways are quite expensive...
I noticed many American toll roads (Indiana Toll Road, Kansas Turnpike, Ohio Turnpike etc.) only charge about $ 0.025 per kilometer. In Europe, they usually charge up to $ 0,15 per kilometer.
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Old December 7th, 2008, 02:54 PM   #248
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my post is from the "french mways" thread, so I was talking about the french tolls...

correction: in the slovenian thread in which we were talking about french motorways...

Last edited by H123Laci; December 7th, 2008 at 07:11 PM.
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Old December 7th, 2008, 02:55 PM   #249
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^ Your post is actually in the Slovenian thread. :P
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Old December 7th, 2008, 02:59 PM   #250
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This is about tolls, so it's the right section

The Netherlands luckily doesn't have tolls on the regular motorways. Just a few tunnels are tolled.
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Old December 7th, 2008, 03:15 PM   #251
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In the Netherlands, there were various toll propositions in the past, called "rekeningrijden" (bank account driving). Early plans were deemed too expensive.

However, they now want to introduce "kilometerheffing" (kilometer charging), with a toll charge for every motorway (possible every road!) depending on time of the day (rushhours are more expensive).

However, as an already extremely high taxed country when it comes to (auto)mobility, there is a lot of opposition to this plan. They have now planned to drop the registration fee, so new cars become cheaper (our registration fee is 142% of the catalogue price, so a 10.000 € car is € 14.200 at the counter).

Another problem in the Netherlands, is the lack of alternatives. They want people to think about their mobility, and make "smart" choices, like combining their drive with public transport, or take public transport altogether.

Though this looks like a good move that people should think about their mobility, the problem is public transport, besides being very unprofitable, has a lack of capacity during rushhours. It's not realistic to even demand 10% of the travelled car miles to be transferred to PT since that would effectively mean a doubling of Public transportation while 5% increases already causes problems during rushhours.

So despite what some say on micro-level, there isn't a good alternative than drive on macro-scale. Everybody knows colleague Bob that comes with his car while he could also take a bicycle or the bus. But this doesn't work at a macro-level. For the majority of the people, there isn't a serious alternative than drive.

The problem of tolls are that they require electronic tolling since tollbooths would create tremendous congestion. This system is expected to be very expensive to operate and implement. Another problem is that the expected decrease in traffic will probably be undone within a couple of years. In my opinion, the initial decrease in traffic does not justify the costs. This is also a problem with congestion charge, initially traffic levels drop a bit, but within a few years, we're back from where we started, but now we pay tolls to be stuck in traffic jams.

Another problem in the Netherlands is that there is no reasonable alternative to the motorways. Many provincial roads are narrow and go through a lot of villages and towns. You don't want all that toll-avoiding traffic on the already undercapacity provincial roads. Try to drive from Utrecht, Almere or Amersfoort to Amsterdam without hitting to motorway. It's virtually impossible, and certainly not an alternative like the Bundesstraßen or Route Nationales are in Germany and France.
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Old December 7th, 2008, 03:25 PM   #252
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They need to invent a bike on which you can drive three times as fast as on a normal bike. In 15 minutes to school, it's a dream......
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Old December 7th, 2008, 07:15 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
(our registration fee is 142% of the catalogue price, so a 10.000 € car is € 14.200 at the counter).
this is not 142%, its "only" 42%, isnt it?

Quote:
The problem of tolls are that they require electronic tolling since tollbooths would create tremendous congestion.
This system is expected to be very expensive to operate and implement.
oh, thats NO problem.
to rip-off more the drivers NOTHING is too expensive...

(we are delaying roundabout constructions for years (no money) but we are planning a 500M euro electronic tolling system... )

Quote:
Another problem is that the expected decrease in traffic will probably be undone within a couple of years.
what kind of decrease?
do you mean toll-avoiding on provincial roads, or car usage (travelled kms) decrease?

Last edited by H123Laci; December 7th, 2008 at 07:35 PM.
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Old December 7th, 2008, 07:22 PM   #254
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Catalogue price is 100% and the fee makes that 142%.
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Old December 7th, 2008, 07:28 PM   #255
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They need to invent a bike on which you can drive three times as fast as on a normal bike. In 15 minutes to school, it's a dream......
That has already been invented. It's called a moped.
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Old December 7th, 2008, 07:44 PM   #256
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Unmotorized, of course. And no, not a race bike, just an all-day bike
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Old December 7th, 2008, 07:47 PM   #257
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Quote:
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Catalogue price is 100% and the fee makes that 142%.
ok, this is clear, but in this case the (registration) tax/fee ratio is 42%

142% tax/fee means that a 10.000 euro catalogue prices goes to 24.200 euro...


and what about the last question?
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Old December 7th, 2008, 07:49 PM   #258
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Unmotorized, of course. And no, not a race bike, just an all-day bike
it is invented also. (it is called muscle )
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Old December 7th, 2008, 07:50 PM   #259
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Stop kidding. You know what I mean
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Old December 7th, 2008, 07:54 PM   #260
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what kind of decrease?
do you mean toll-avoiding on provincial roads, or car usage (travelled kms) decrease?
Sorry, didn't see the edit.

They've forecasted that there will be a decrease in car usage. However, I don't know what this is based on. Models give an output that depends on your input. I'm afraid this whole declining-because-of-kilometer-charge won't be noticeable at all within a few years after implementation. So paying the price for being in the same old traffic jam.
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