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View Poll Results: What do you think of congestion pricing?
Yes, it helps pay for mass transit. 5 41.67%
Yes, it gets me past traffic. 0 0%
No, it only gets used by the rich. 3 25.00%
No, it does nothing for traffic. 4 33.33%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 7th, 2007, 01:48 AM   #61
ChrisZwolle
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Ofcourse

You can check the pics here

Oh shit, i see you mean A2. I only have pics of the AP-2.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 02:40 AM   #62
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Yeah, I've already seen those photo's of the AP-2, and I've already drive on that one.

Thanks anyway.


If I had to go from Lleida to Zaragoza I would probably use the AP2, because it's certainly much faster, but I find the A2 to be interesting, particularly because the terraine is more dificult that on the AP2, and it crosses a very populated area, hence all those exits. That's why I wanted to see pictures of it.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 12:41 PM   #63
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A2 is filled with trucks. If you want a comfortable easy drive, i´d definatly choose the AP-2.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 09:00 PM   #64
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Congestion Pricing?

Los Angeles has now proposed putting toll lanes on freeways in addition to HOV lanes, effectively making HOT lanes. This idea has split the city in two: many want them to pay for the expansion of our Metro Rail system, the others don't want lanes that they say only the rich can use. I just wanted to know what people from other countries think of congestion pricing and how it works there.

Here's a link to the main article about this idea in the Los Angeles Times.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...nes-california
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Old July 7th, 2007, 09:10 PM   #65
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I don't think it would work. It might work initially, when people get scared of the higher costs of mobility, but after a few years, they just change some power purchasing to mobility. So people are gonna cut back on other things, like vacations, food, holidays, etc. People might reconsider recreational and social driving, especially in the weekend, when a lot of people travel to see friends, family and other relatives.

You can look at the current gas prices. They went sky-high the last couple of years. But people don't drive a mile less for it. Traffic jams keeps getting longer. In the last 4 - 5 years, gas prices rose with 50%, but mobility keeps growing.

Do you really think people aren't going to work anymore, because of congestion pricing? No, people still travel. During rushhours, the amount of traffic which has options to drive on other times is really marginal. Nobody goes driving in a continuesly growing traffic jam, unless they really have to.

And when we keep building large housing projects, and do nothing about the infrastructure, you will keep traffic jams. On the other hand, why do offices have to be concentrated on one spot? With modern communications, they could settle anywhere.

When you have a busy freeway, and they build a giant officepark next to it, what do you expect? Of course traffic jams will grow. Congestion pricing won't change that.

The idea behind CP is that people who don't have to be on the road during rushhours, will choose another time of travel. But that amount of traffic is overcalculated, it's really a small amount, i won't make much of a difference on the road, but the money keeps coming in by the government.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 09:37 PM   #66
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This is the map for Spain. It includes "autopistas" and tolled tunnels but it's not very precise.




More info: www.aseta.es
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Old July 7th, 2007, 10:23 PM   #67
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^ I thought the idea was to enable faster driving to those who pay for it.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 10:26 PM   #68
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CP sounds like "You pay for the infrastructure we don't provide!"

Al least in LA, in London it's a different thing.
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Old July 7th, 2007, 10:36 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
^ I thought the idea was to enable faster driving to those who pay for it.
Yeah, but they don't provide better infrastructure. You just pay more money for driving in traffic jams.

We know all that in the Netherlands, our taxes are among the highest in the world, and so are our traffic jams.
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Old July 8th, 2007, 07:57 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1491 View Post
France: Most motorways are tolled, except near border regions and near larger cities.
Are you sure ?

In orange, tolled motorways (always "Autoroutes"), that represents 7186 km (67 % of the network).
In green, untolled motorways ("Autoroutes" or "Voie Express"), that represents 3565 km réseau (33 % of the network):

PS: the map is not up to date


If we don't take into account the "autoroutes" near the cities, free autoroutes (fully or not) are:
A16, A20, A23, A25 A28, A84, A31, A34, A35, A63, A64, A68 and A75.

Last edited by [email protected]; July 8th, 2007 at 08:10 PM.
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Old July 9th, 2007, 07:32 AM   #71
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Ok, so it obviously does nothing to solve traffic, but how does much money does it get and is it worth it? Is this really a good way for Metro to get more money?
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Old July 9th, 2007, 07:37 AM   #72
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NoNoNoNoNo.
Keep the traffic jams but just add more public transportation
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Old July 9th, 2007, 05:05 PM   #73
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Public Transportation is by far no solution for traffic jams or as an alternative.
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Old July 9th, 2007, 05:30 PM   #74
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Public transportation is not an alternative to traffic?
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Old July 9th, 2007, 05:41 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
Public transportation is not an alternative to traffic?
No, i don't think so. Let me make an example.

If i go with my car to work (10km) it takes about 10 - 15 minutes in normal morning traffic.
If i go with the bus to work, it takes always at least 53 minutes. That is 5 times the driving time with a car. I have to get a hell lot of traffic jams for that. And even then i'm late. If i wanna be on time, i have to leave 1:20 before my work starts. That is 1:05 longer then with a car.

I don't call that an alternative.

Public transportation is only fast when you have to go from city center to city center, or in case of highspeed rail, an alternative to flying.
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Old July 9th, 2007, 07:19 PM   #76
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What if you use a subway instead of a car?

In the case of someone who's in Hollywood, it would be faster for them to use the train to go to Universal City than to take the 101 and go over the Cahuenga Pass.

I'll agree, buses aren't faster than anything, but a grade separated train, now that's a whole different animal. It's needed in a city with a lot of traffic, and congestion pricing to me seems like a way to get people out of their cars, into public transportation, and have another way to pay for that mass transit system.
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Old July 9th, 2007, 07:50 PM   #77
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There is no other PT in my city of 115.000, yeah there are trains, but there is only 1 trainstation.
If there was a subway, i would use it if it is close to my work.
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Old July 9th, 2007, 08:17 PM   #78
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Oh, ok, you just meant in your city exclusively. That's a good fact that you bring up. For some cities, roads are perfect. For others, it just can't work. Los Angeles has been one of those cities for a while now, but it still doesn't have the necessary infrastructure in place.
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Old July 9th, 2007, 08:21 PM   #79
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L.A. needs a better subway. It has a very small system considering the agglomeration size. However, i think going with the subway all the way from Riverside or Moreno Valley is too long either.
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Old July 9th, 2007, 08:34 PM   #80
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We need it more in metro LA and commuter rail out anywhere further.

I don't know why the freeways are still being expanded. Could you agree that it is only going to hurt LA?
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