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View Poll Results: What do you think of congestion pricing?
Yes, it helps pay for mass transit. 5 41.67%
Yes, it gets me past traffic. 0 0%
No, it only gets used by the rich. 3 25.00%
No, it does nothing for traffic. 4 33.33%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 9th, 2007, 09:01 PM   #81
ChrisZwolle
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Well, Los Angeles is build in a way that you can't be mobile without a car. So they have to face the consequences and widen the freeways. You don't wanna have total gridlocks either.
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Old July 9th, 2007, 09:23 PM   #82
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Or we can start building everything next to our existing rail lines. I don't think that we can ever outgrow our car dependence to an extent, but we can become rail riders when we commute.
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Old July 9th, 2007, 10:02 PM   #83
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This plan isn't really congestion pricing in it's true sense, they're just adding a toll to their HOV lanes, I believe that Houston has some as well. Personally, since people are so loath to see their taxes raised here in the US, it's not a bad idea at all, a good one actually.

But I don't think Congestion pricing overall would work here in the US. Sure, it may work in a few where there are plenty of PT options and infrastructure, but not in most cities here. But anyway, I'm going to vote yes, to fund mass transit.
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Old July 9th, 2007, 10:18 PM   #84
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Quote:
But anyway, I'm going to vote yes, to fund mass transit.
Why do automobile owners have to pay for mass transit they don't use?

Anyway, i do like the concept of separated toll lanes. So you can choose between traffic jam or pay a little more and no traffic jams.
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Old July 9th, 2007, 10:23 PM   #85
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Well, I do drive a car and like it very much, but I am aware that there are plenty of people who don't own any, and there needs to be a way of transportation for them. There's nothing wrong with a little balance...you can like Metros and like Highways.

Anyway, this is a debate for another topic.
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Old July 9th, 2007, 10:25 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1491 View Post
No, i don't think so. Let me make an example.

If i go with my car to work (10km) it takes about 10 - 15 minutes in normal morning traffic.
If i go with the bus to work, it takes always at least 53 minutes. That is 5 times the driving time with a car. I have to get a hell lot of traffic jams for that. And even then i'm late. If i wanna be on time, i have to leave 1:20 before my work starts. That is 1:05 longer then with a car.

I don't call that an alternative.

Public transportation is only fast when you have to go from city center to city center, or in case of highspeed rail, an alternative to flying.
Even in Tallinn, where public transport is so poorly developed, by train you can get from a suburb to the centre faster than by a car....That is an alternative.
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Old July 9th, 2007, 11:21 PM   #87
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Think of it like mitigation for driving a car. You're causing traffic, pollution the environment, etc. You should have to pay more than people who go by foot and are decreasing traffic in the area.

I'd much rather have a higher gas tax, but taxes are just so evil to everyone here.
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Old July 9th, 2007, 11:24 PM   #88
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gas taxes in the US are very low, and they complain about the prices! In The Netherlands, gas is the most expensive in the world
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Old July 9th, 2007, 11:41 PM   #89
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We complain because there is no alternative like much of Europe has. There is a huge stigma about buses here, so that is a big problem. Also, people like to live away from city centers, meaning they pay a lot because they drive a lot. Don't forget about all the gas wasted in all the traffic here.

This country needs a comprehensive rail plain, much like when Eisenhower initiated the Interstate system. This country need intercity and intracity rail.
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Old July 10th, 2007, 08:53 AM   #90
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I'm sure if you put rail lines along major routes toward a CBD in the USA the congestion will be cut by a lot.

Congestion pricing [in the city] is just a bad idea imo, that's almost encouraging people NOT to go in the CBD if there are no public transit options
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Old July 10th, 2007, 09:16 AM   #91
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Quote:
I'm sure if you put rail lines along major routes toward a CBD in the USA the congestion will be cut by a lot.
That idea is often overrated.

Let me give an example. In the Netherlands, we have an extensive rail/lightrail/subway network, especially in the Randstad region.

So they build the CBD's near trainstations, excellent PT locations. But does it increase PT ridership? A little, but traffic jams kept growing, because trainstations are generally not very accessible to roadtraffic. Making the CBD accessible to PT is one thing, but you have to think about the housing too... they are much more spread, making PT just inefficient.

Like in LA's case, you'll have like 4 or 5 east-west freeways which all have like 250.000 - 300.000 AADT. There is no way you can transport even like 10% of that with trains, because they can't go too short after eachother (safety).

Here, in NL, they think if they put superfast buses between Den Haag and Rotterdam, the traffic jams dissapear.
The A13 motorway has 160.000 vehicles a day, and you need like 100.000 to let the traffic jams dissapear. That means you have to transport 72.000 people with buses in rushhours. You'll need like 1200 buses for that in a few hours. That's just impossible.
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Old July 13th, 2007, 08:49 AM   #92
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About capacity issues, if very dense cities can survive on almost soley PT like Toyko, then PT does work even with lots of capacity. Build more lines, do whatever, but it works.

A solution to suburbian PT would be park-and-rides, where commuters just drive a little bit to their local PT station, park their cars and go to work
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Old July 13th, 2007, 09:30 AM   #93
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The problem is, that PT is only very effective in very dense cities like Tokyo, Hong Kong, Shanghai etc. But the majority of the large cities in the US aren´t way that dense, and so are most European cities (however they are denser than other cities).

But i think most roads in Europe aren't that busy considering the city's size. Like Paris, 10 million in agglomeration, but the busiest road is only 300.000 vehicles a day. Generally that means only 100.000 - 150.000 of that 10million use that motorway daily.
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Old July 13th, 2007, 10:50 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1491 View Post
Yeah, but they don't provide better infrastructure. You just pay more money for driving in traffic jams.
May be this change people's attitude from 'roads are free but subway( LRT, whatever) is not; so build more roads and not subways' to something else.
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Old February 6th, 2008, 04:16 PM   #95
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Toll Roads & Toll Gates

I decided to open a new thread about toll roads and toll gates.

Post your pics of toll gates!
Post news of new and old toll roads!
Which payement systems do you have in your country?


Let's start with some pictures from France.


A40 near The Mont Blanc:





A10 in France:

Last edited by picassoborseli; February 15th, 2008 at 01:18 PM.
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Old February 6th, 2008, 05:37 PM   #96
PLH
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POLAND:









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Old February 6th, 2008, 05:46 PM   #97
ChrisZwolle
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Interesting, in Poland, the credit cards seems to be on the right side, while i saw that in other countries usually on the left side.
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Old February 6th, 2008, 06:24 PM   #98
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Nooo, thy are obviousely on the left side , this part of this system isn't so stupid(only this one)

The first pic was taken before the road was opened, and because of this this car is driving on the wrong side
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Old February 6th, 2008, 06:47 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Interesting, in Poland, the credit cards seems to be on the right side, while i saw that in other countries usually on the left side.
Italy for instance has no rules about that.
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Old February 6th, 2008, 07:36 PM   #100
x-type
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Croatia

B8 - barrier Tunnel Učka, west entrance


A6 - barrier Grobnik (entrance)



A4 - barrier Sveta Helena (entrance)
[IMG]http://i21.************/jttpnc.jpg[/IMG]

A4 - exit Čakovec


A1 - barrier Lučko (entrance)

[IMG]http://i21.************/2ldhy1i.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i13.************/6gyhkly.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i14.************/4523vdg.jpg[/IMG]

A1 - exit Dugopolje (Split)


A1 - exit Šibenik


A1 - exit Zadar 2
[IMG]http://i14.************/4m3795f.jpg[/IMG]

A1 - exit Šestanovac (temporarly it is barrier because currently A1 ends here)


A1 - exit Otočac
[IMG]http://i16.************/2ymi1y8.jpg[/IMG]

A2 - exit Krapina
[IMG]http://i20.************/xbhlbr.jpg[/IMG]

A2 - barrier Trakošćan (exit)
[IMG]http://i7.************/4uix7xw.jpg[/IMG]

A7 - barrier Rupa


A3 - barrier Ivanja Reka (exit)


B9 - barrier Mirna (very rare photographed)


D102 - barrier Krčki most (bridge toll)
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Last edited by x-type; February 6th, 2008 at 08:21 PM.
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