daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments > DN Archives



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 10th, 2005, 11:38 PM   #121
Indyman
Registered User
 
Indyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bloomington
Posts: 836
Likes (Received): 4

OOOKKKK....
__________________
Envy is the ulcer of the soul- Socrates
Indyman no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 11th, 2005, 01:01 AM   #122
beyond 1000
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 360
Likes (Received): 74

Thank you Howie for that play by play. Now give us your design or get with the program.
beyond 1000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2005, 03:28 AM   #123
streetscapeer
hmmm......
 
streetscapeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 5,912
Likes (Received): 25288

Why is there so much pressure on this project to have some ground-breaking design...I don't think just because we're not buliding taller twin buildings that the terrorists have won! I think this site needs a design that's simplistic, and classical, not some thing that will make lower manhattan skyline an overly complicated mess.

I think this nice (simplistic) design is better without a twin. I think the tower design pays homage to the twin tower's design, meanwhile complimenting the Empire State Building quite well, something that is needed since thy will be the two most prominent buildings in NY.

I'm not only satisfied with the current project design, I love them, and totally endorse them!
streetscapeer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2005, 01:34 PM   #124
nezzybaby
Look at my shiny ball
 
nezzybaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bristol
Posts: 8,777
Likes (Received): 2858

"
...itll take a nuke to destroy this thing


Or a few more hijacked aircraft. After all, you can't design a skyscraper to withstand those kind of impacts. Tenants will have to rely on the FAA to keep them safe... which is still a total joke sadly."

The building will not collapse if hit by aircraft, it has been designed specifically for this. The previous towers collapsed because steel was used heavilly instead of concrete, and steel melts at a much lower temperature than concrete.
nezzybaby está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2005, 01:55 PM   #125
ch1le
always on
 
ch1le's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: tallinn/Tartu
Posts: 4,650
Likes (Received): 203

/\ it didnt collapse because of "steel melting" you see, the temp required for Steel to melt is alot higher then Cerasines (jetfuel) burning temp, steel just got softer because there wasnt fireproofing at some places or it was just blown away.
I agree, it could take a jet, but im highly doubting it could take a hit from a 777ER, with full fuel tanks, or a A380 for that matter
ch1le no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2005, 02:28 PM   #126
Omluki
Bla bla bla
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Jakarta, the big durian
Posts: 359
Likes (Received): 110

If safety really the main concern, they should build bunker instead of skyscraper..... ooh FEAR TOWER..
__________________
The Tower of Babel: The Tower of Confusion
Omluki no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2005, 05:08 PM   #127
Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: United States... Not For Long :-)
Posts: 579
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by nezzybaby
The building will not collapse if hit by aircraft, it has been designed specifically for this. The previous towers collapsed because steel was used heavilly instead of concrete, and steel melts at a much lower temperature than concrete.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ch1le
it didnt collapse because of "steel melting" you see, the temp required for Steel to melt is alot higher then Cerasines (jetfuel) burning temp, steel just got softer because there wasnt fireproofing at some places or it was just blown away. I agree, it could take a jet, but im highly doubting it could take a hit from a 777ER, with full fuel tanks, or a A380 for that matter
Yeah it was a combination of the spray-on fireproofing material being blown off by the impact, and the then-exposed steel giving way from the high temperature fire from all the jet fuel that brought it down.

In any event, if it did collapse, at least people would have an escape route down the several feet thick concrete stairwells, (instead of the thin sheetrock that was easily destroyed by the impact in the old WTC, blocking the stairs.) But yeah the concrete core design probably makes this tower a lot stronger than the old towers.

I would imagine they've run computer simulations of an A380 impacting it...
Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2005, 11:54 AM   #128
pett
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 11
Likes (Received): 0

I love it, it's really good, i say " get a move on and bulid it."
pett no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2005, 09:11 PM   #129
elsonic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Montréal
Posts: 125
Likes (Received): 4

I think this design v.3.8 is not bad, but just ok.

I would hire the architects of this cancelled tower :
http://www.skyscraperpage.com/cities...rawingID=13678

.. and order a very similar design. or even purchase their original design.

EDIT - SOM is already on the project.

Last edited by elsonic; July 12th, 2005 at 09:16 PM.
elsonic no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2005, 09:36 PM   #130
Oskar_Platinum
Registered User
 
Oskar_Platinum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2
Likes (Received): 0

The design of the towwer is OK. I hope that Osama doesn´t try to test it´s resistence... as he did 9-11 LOL
Oskar_Platinum no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2005, 10:02 PM   #131
www.sercan.de
Galatasaray SK
 
www.sercan.de's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Istanbul
Posts: 27,950
Likes (Received): 2719

http://www.faz.net/s/Rub7A5627BF4B68...Scontent§Phtml
__________________
International titles of Galatasaray SK
UEFA Europa League (1): 2000
UEFA Super Cup (1): 2000

ULEB Eurocup (1): 2016

FIBA EuroLeague Women (1): 2014
FIBA EuroCup Women (1): 2009

IWBF Champions Cup (5): 2008, 2009, 2011, 2013, 2014
IWBF André Vergauwen Cup (1): 2017
IWBF Intercontinental Cup (4): 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012

EJU Golden League (1): 2014
www.sercan.de no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2005, 11:11 PM   #132
TalB
Refugee
 
TalB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pleasantville, NY
Posts: 7,537
Likes (Received): 78

I still find it to be very tacky, and in this case, unoriginal.
__________________
I respected your views, so I expect you do to the same.
TalB no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2005, 11:15 PM   #133
ch1le
always on
 
ch1le's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: tallinn/Tartu
Posts: 4,650
Likes (Received): 203



wtf, is this for real ?
ch1le no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2005, 11:26 PM   #134
MainDiish
Noodles Yum!
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Tokyo東京
Posts: 79
Likes (Received): 0

is it the same height as the WTC?
__________________
I TOKYO
MainDiish no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2005, 05:36 AM   #135
STR
What'u smokin' Willis?
 
STR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 2,095
Likes (Received): 104

Quote:
Originally Posted by ch1le


wtf, is this for real ?
No that's not an offical plan by any means. It appears to be some combination of the two different FT designs.
__________________
There are six phases to every project 1) enthusiasm, 2) disillusionment, 3) panic, 4) search for the guilty, 5) punishment of the innocent, 6) praise for the non-participants. - Guy Tozzoli
Build your own Model Skyscrapers** New World Trade Center (2006-) 3D Model ** World Trade Center (1971-2001) 3D Model
STR no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2005, 03:06 AM   #136
TalB
Refugee
 
TalB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pleasantville, NY
Posts: 7,537
Likes (Received): 78

http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_11...g%20point.html
Volume 18 • Issue 8 | July 15-21, 2005

Talking Point

Changes for the worse at the Freedom Tower

By David Stanke

Every major landmark architectural project should carry a shadow name, the name that captures its essence more directly than the marketing name created by its advocates. The Freedom Tower for the W.T.C. is such a landmark. The name Freedom was a stretch from the day Pataki put the label on Daniel Libeskind’s unworkable design. Now, after numerous dramatic revisions, the name and 1,776-foot height are the only original aspects of the tower still in place. The shadow name for this building calls out from behind its armored base — welcome to the Feardom Tower. And in honor of the person most influential in instigating the current redesign, the Bloomberg Feardom Tower bestows proper credit.

As much as this building needs to be built quickly, it needs one more revision to fulfill its promise. The design presented two weeks ago has broken long held constraints, especially the limits on actual building height. This alone opens possibilities that did not exist two years ago. Unfortunately the incentive for these changes is an ill-defined demand for enhanced security. This demand was driven in the heat of Mayor Bloomberg’s drive to get the West Side Jets stadium approved. Once the stadium was rejected, Mayor Bloomberg could not back off his accusations that the design was unacceptably vulnerable to attack. In response, David Childs has created a building that meets a narrow definition of security at great cost to the vitality of the surrounding areas. The top of the building is fine, but the bottom 200 feet is a problem.

Two design changes were implemented to enhance security. First the building shape at base was changed from a parallelogram to a square. This created a greater separation between the building and West St., in theory protecting it from car bombs. Next, the structure at the base of the building has been hardened, with metal plates installed on the outside for the first 200 feet of the structure.

The new design has interesting parallels to the design of one of the first ironclad battle ships in the civil war, the Merrimack. To protect the Merrimack from canons, the designers took a standard battleship and applied metal plates, not exactly revolutionary thinking. The Merrimack was sunk in its first battle against the Monitor, an ironclad ship with a more inventive design. The Monitor had a reduced profile making it more mobile and harder to hit. It had a single swinging canon instead of multiple fixed position canons, so it could fire on target from any position.

To provide real security for the Freedom Tower, W.T.C. site planners should drop the metal plating from the building and instead eliminate vehicular traffic from the W.T.C. site. This would mean no traffic on the north and south sides and allow the building to be built further from West St. Whatever the experts in the N.Y.P.D. are telling us, their actions demonstrate that building safety is most enhanced by securing the area around the building. That is why all streets around the New York Stock Exchange have been closed and search outposts have been implemented on Broadway. Consider police headquarters Downtown. All vehicular access adjacent to One Police Plaza has been prohibited for almost four years. It is interesting that the police do not allow traffic near their building, a low priority terrorist target, but the city demands traffic be allowed through the W.T.C. site.

The Twin Towers were easily protected against car bombs in the aftermath of the first attack. So they were attacked with airplanes. In fact, the Twin Towers were more protected than the Freedom Tower will be. No vehicles could approach the Twin Towers without being searched.

Not only has a lot of money been sunk on security schemes of limited effectiveness, the changes have damaged the street level experience of the area. The Freedom Tower will now join the new 7 W.T.C. with solid, forbidding walls reaching a number of stories off ground level. Neither building will have street level retail. Combining these buildings with the Verizon building, also void of retail, and the whole northwest corner of the site will become a pedestrian dead zone, useful only as a path from one side to another. These streets will be as void of vitality as they were pre-9/11.

While the street grid with square buildings works well for much of Manhattan, it is not the most creative urban design. Inviting places in the city with very interesting architecture, take place where the grid is broken and alternate design opportunities are revealed. Examples include Columbus Circle, the Flatiron building, and Lincoln and Rockefeller Centers. Even the Village, with its unpredictably confused street patterns provides an interesting pedestrian experience. A parallelogram Freedom Tower with spacious setbacks and no vehicular traffic would establish a creative street level experience with various retail possibilities. The current Freedom Tower design falls back into “square block, square building” paradigm, a less interesting alternative with limited improvement in security.

Fear is the emotion that, in time of danger, knocks people out of rational analysis of risks and responses. It pushes people to take actions that make them feel better, even if they fail to alleviate the danger. The new Freedom Tower may reduce people’s level of fear with its titanium walls, but it won’t increase their safety.

From a strictly psychological perspective, the Freedom Tower will be a constant reminder that the city is under attack. Talk all you want about shimmering metal walls and the feeling of lightness they will create. The outer shell of the Freedom Tower will not hide the reality that its walls are the invocation of fear embedded in the building. They do not provide real safety. My guess is that by the time this building is completed and on the market, it will be an anachronism, poorly designed for a war that is already over.

And so we have the Feardom Tower: an ironclad monstrosity paying tribute to the danger of city planning and urban design by democratic (read political) processes. I’m sure developer Larry Silverstein will build whatever he can get through the gauntlet of W.T.C. design. He will even bear the costs of meaningless symbolism and futile security, simply to get a commercial building in play. The path to this Freedom Tower is so convoluted that we’ll be reading books about it for as long as 9/11 has any meaning to us; from its origins as a building by an architect who doesn’t build tall buildings, to a forced marriage of two architects struggling for design control, to a developer and an architect dancing to the whims of public bureaucrats. Great projects have a single driver using a single architect/designer to fulfill consistent vision. Unfortunately, this project is not so simple. Perhaps it is worth taking some time for one more try. But then, it isn’t my money at stake.

David Stanke lives across from the World Trade Center site and frequently writes about Lower Manhattan rebuilding.
__________________
I respected your views, so I expect you do to the same.
TalB no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2005, 06:29 PM   #137
New Jack City
User
 
New Jack City's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,634
Likes (Received): 45

Hi-res stacking image....

New Jack City no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2005, 06:40 PM   #138
Urban Dave
In Urbanity I Trust
 
Urban Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Urban Area
Posts: 15,100
Likes (Received): 1518

Nice secction. It's strange to dont' see any service floor in the middle of the building, just on the top and the base...
Urban Dave no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2005, 07:04 PM   #139
Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: United States... Not For Long :-)
Posts: 579
Likes (Received): 4

Sweet pic!

So the top three floors are for the public with an observatory I assume. And the gray/brown floors beneath that are probably for the antennae equipment and other services.

Makes sense I guess there's no "sky lobbies" either, this is substantially less office space.
Cheese Mmmmmmmmmmmm no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 21st, 2005, 02:02 AM   #140
WBB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4
Likes (Received): 1

I really hope they won't call it "Freedom Tower" sounds awful! And I hope the spire wont be tall as hell, but the design of it is nothing extravagant, it blends in well with the rest. But it wouldn't hurt perhaps to make it a bit more stunning, cuz right now it's just ok lookin'
WBB no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu